Police and Crime Commissioner absolute farce.

[anonymous-user]

No Government will change the underlying things that prevent the police from being more effective. The legislative, risk-averse web is so entangled, complicated and deep, that it would require a radical approach. An approach that is beyond any centre-standing party.

[Red Devil]

streaky said:

'm not BiB, but I am back working at my old job (called back from the reserves, so to speak, "for the duration", the boss said too many months ago), so I know that things in government haven't changed in many years, and can see no incentive for change now or in the future.

Streaky

It doesn't just apply to Westminster. Whitehall is similarly afflicted. Sir Humphrey Appleby and Sir Arnold Robinson haven't left the building(s).

[streaky]

Red Devil said:

streaky said:

'm not BiB, but I am back working at my old job (called back from the reserves, so to speak, "for the duration", the boss said too many months ago), so I know that things in government haven't changed in many years, and can see no incentive for change now or in the future.

Streaky

It doesn't just apply to Westminster. Whitehall is similarly afflicted. Sir Humphrey Appleby and Sir Arnold Robinson haven't left the building(s).

I was talking about "the government", i.e., Westminster + Whitehall. Thank goodness our department is a little distance away physically and a greater distance away philosophically.

Streaky

Edited by streaky on Monday 19th November 06:06

[streaky]

Reports of the bill for the farce suggest that each vote cost some £15. IIRC, a ticket to see Brian Rix in a Whitehall Farce cost about the same ... but they were funny, this is tragic.

Each PCC will need to save, on average, around £2 million in each year of their four-year tenure, just to pay for their election and salary, and probably more as they accrete a staffed office around them.

How many BiB would that money fund?

Streaky

[Elroy Blue]

The cost of the elections would have paid for 3000 Officers. Not a lot more to be said really

[streaky]

Prime Minister David Cameron predicts the public will become more interested when PCCs began their work.

Ya, think, Cameron?

Maybe when they see no positive change, and then the word for their 'interest' will be ... anger.

Cameron should remind himself of Jeremiah 5:21: "Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not."

Streaky

[XCP]

I bet they're already setting up a National Association of PCCs, and planning where to hold their annual conference.

[3Dee]

XCP said:

I bet they're already setting up a National Association of PCCs, and planning where to hold their annual conference.

Yep, and probably in a plush hotel in Singapore for a week, all mod-cons and a lavish banquet each night... just like the insurance/ finance companies do each year for so-called 'Top performers' and their wives... and you wonder why the 'service and admin charges' are so high and your 'investment' returns are so low?

The whole thing stinks!

[anonymous-user]

Elroy Blue said:

The cost of the elections would have paid for 3000 Officers. Not a lot more to be said really

And what would you do with them? When teams are being fired wholesale (if they havent already resigned) for playing cards and cleaning golf kit when supposedly on duty, it's hard to understand why more officers are needed.




Entire British police team axed for playing poker and cleaning golf clubs

An entire neighbourhood police team has been axed after they were caught playing cards, board games and even cleaning golf clubs when they were supposed to be patrolling the streets.

Three officers were sacked and another four resigned following an internal investigation by the Metropolitan Police. The team, made up of regular officers and community support officers, were supposed to be helping keep the streets safe in Bromley, south east London.

But instead hidden cameras and listening devices found them playing backgammon and poker or just watching television. One officer regularly went out for a run rather than working while another was cleaning his gold clubs in the office. Some then claimed overtime for shifts they had not worked.

Commander Allan Gibson, head of the Met’s Directorate of Professional Standards, said: "These officers let the whole of the service down with their behaviour; but more importantly they let down their local community. "There is no place for lazy attitudes in the MPS and those who are found to be failing in their duties will be held to account."

The activities were exposed during an undercover operation by Cmdr Gibson’s unit into the Safer Neighbourhood Team in the Mottingham and Chislehurst North ward of Bromley in 2010. Disciplinary proceedings were only concluded last month.

One sergeant and a constable were sacked after the Met's disciplinary panel found them guilty of gross misconduct. Another constable and three of the team's community support officers resigned, while a fourth PCSO was dismissed.

In a statement, the Met said: "The disciplinary panel heard evidence that officers from the team had played backgammon and poker whilst on duty, watched TV in the office, frequently failed to go out on patrol, had not worked full tours of duty and also claimed overtime that had not been worked. "In addition, one officer had gone out for runs during the working day whilst a further officer cleaned his golf clubs in the office. These activities appear to have taken place at the expense of policing duties, such as patrolling the local area."

Roger Charsley, an ex-police officer and now local councillor for the ward, said: “I was horrified by this. “The public expect the police to do their job not sit around watching television and playing cards.”

A Met source added: “It was an extraordinary state of affairs. “The public will be shocked to learn how little work was actually being done by this team.”

Neighbourhood teams were introduced by the Met in 2004 and subsequently rolled out across the country. They were intended to make the police more accountable to the public because local people would get to know their designated team. They were described at the time as the “greatest development in community policing in the past 30 years”.

[IroningMan]

Elroy Blue said:

The cost of the elections would have paid for 3000 Officers. Not a lot more to be said really

Might have covered their salaries for a year, but not their pensions contributions, accomodation, equipment etc etc etc.

[Derek Smith]

REALIST123 said:

And what would you do with them? When teams are being fired wholesale (if they havent already resigned) for playing cards and cleaning golf kit when supposedly on duty, it's hard to understand why more officers are needed.

The Met is not the police force for the country. I ran a shift in a busy seaside town in the '90s, when we had 'lots' more, i.e. less than five years later, more than now, staff. During late turns we habitually had no breaks at all and I used to stay on until the last officer went off duty apart as there was no casual overtime budget and I never got away before an hour after finishing time. There was an incident room when officers would not go home during the first 72hrs. The SIO said to everyone that if they could not commit to this demand they'd better clear off and by the way, no overtime.

That, perhaps, is why more officers are required.

[Elroy Blue]

REALIST123 said:

And what would you do with them? When teams are being fired wholesale (if they havent already resigned) for playing cards and cleaning golf kit when supposedly on duty, it's hard to understand why more officers are needed

So you think we're all sitting playing poker do you??

Four Officers to Police 500 square miles tonight. I'll let you do the maths

[anonymous-user]

Elroy Blue said:

REALIST123 said:

And what would you do with them? When teams are being fired wholesale (if they havent already resigned) for playing cards and cleaning golf kit when supposedly on duty, it's hard to understand why more officers are needed

So you think we're all sitting playing poker do you??

Four Officers to Police 500 square miles tonight. I'll let you do the maths

Where did I say that? Are you saying no-one is or ever does?

[Derek Smith]

IroningMan said:

Elroy Blue said:

The cost of the elections would have paid for 3000 Officers. Not a lot more to be said really

Might have covered their salaries for a year, but not their pensions contributions, accomodation, equipment etc etc etc.

Don't these new PCCs have much better pensions than PCs and will require equipement as well. They will get much better accommodation. I don't know any PC who has his own office, secretary, etc.

If you want to include on-costs for PCs then you have to include on-costs for PCCs.

[Rovinghawk]

Elroy Blue said:

So you think we're all sitting playing poker do you??

Are you denying that this happened?


RH

[FiF]

Rovinghawk said:

Elroy Blue said:

So you think we're all sitting playing poker do you??

Are you denying that this happened?


RH

To me he isn't saying that at all. One should not assume because one set of bad apples have been caught and dealt with that every single police officer in the land is the same, by refusal to answer his question it's clear what your one note samba inference is likely to be.

Likewise because one PH poster is a tedious troll doesn't mean to say everyone is.

[XCP]

Rovinghawk said:

Elroy Blue said:

So you think we're all sitting playing poker do you??

Are you denying that this happened?


RH

How does that conclusion follow?

[brenflys777]

I was seriously unimpressed with the quality of the candidates in our area - Conservative walnut farmer, Labour exMEP and a retired Police Inspector and I have optimistically voted for the only one with any experience in the field. ( of policing that is - not walnuts )

Now he has been elected I hope he succeeds, but one of the measures of success for me will be whether his team is cheaper than the previous Police Authority which from my limited experience was made up of do gooders who occupy lots of committees and whose knowledge of PC is limited to acceptable political views rather than thief taking. That figure of 3000 extra Police sounds hollow unless the previous unelected Police Authority was free.

On the other hand my new PCC may turn out to be more of a Startled Swallow than a Roving Hawk of crime fighting.

[XCP]

There will be a 'photo opportunity' for all PCCs shortly. They will be pictured meeting locals in a carefully sanitised area. There will be 2 officers present. One from an ethnic minority and a female of inspector rank or above. The Chief Constable may be hovering, beaming in the background. In some forces a horse or two may be involved.

This will be followed by meeting with 'stakeholders' and other 'partners', and the PCC will ask people to judge him/her on results.

Some tosh about doors being open and steep learning curves may well also be mentioned.

Then the sackings will start.

[Furry Exocet]

Rovinghawk said:

Are you denying that this happened?


RH

Yeah of course he is...... Or you're just being a douche again