Summons to court after complying with fixed penalty offer
Discussion
Wozy68 said:
Why don't you just f
k off. You lowlife. It's tts like you that have totally fked up this country. You selfless self satisfied .
Hmmmm, feel better now. No wonder the guy has posted so often. Must work for government to be so far up his own arse. :-)
LOL i bet theres not many people on this forum would have done what he said.k off. You lowlife. It's tts like you that have totally fked up this country. You selfless self satisfied .Hmmmm, feel better now. No wonder the guy has posted so often. Must work for government to be so far up his own arse. :-)
Ive found many times in the past in certain circumstances that it pays to keep quiet if you are aware that a mistake has been made which you could benefit from
wildone63 said:
vonhosen said:
If the fixed penalty scheme isn't completed for whatever reason (I can't see that it really matters if it's through your choice or their's) then it can default to a summons as long as it isn't timed out. Your mitigation (of willing to accept the original FPN) should lead to a punishment no greater than that penalty (the original FPN) if you plead guilty in relation to the matter.
Well,ive certainly got no intention of accepting the original FPN.fk em! i acted in good faith,accepted the original offer,they had their chance to take my £60 and give me 3 points and they made their decision not to.That should carry a lot of sway with any court.This case wont go ahead without the decision makers at the fixed penalty office being made to look like a bunch of tits.Do you think its worth my while contacting the court or police to explain that the fixed penalty office decided to take no further action 3 months ago?
Anyone can plead a case in an attempt to avoid court, but the decision is of course somebody else's. By all means contact them & you may get lucky.
As far as I can see all that would be really unfair would be you having to pay a larger fine than the original FPN.
I also can't see somebody in a FPN office worrying massively if it were pointed out that they made a clerical error in relation to two separate offences a day apart (involving the same person in the same car) that they mistakenly took to be one. It's not exactly a career breaker.
Edited by vonhosen on Thursday 8th November 22:22
vonhosen said:
They aren't asking you to accept the original FPN, they're summonsing you instead (& you say it's on record that you tried to accept you'd committed the offence).
Anyone can plead a case in an attempt to avoid court, but the decision is of course somebody else's. By all means contact them & you may get lucky.
As far as I can see all that would be really unfair would be you having to pay a larger fine than the original FPN.
I also can't see somebody in a FPN office worrying massively if it were pointed out that they made a clerical error in relation to two separate offences a day apart (involving the same person in the same car) that they mistakenly took to be one. It's not exactly a career breaker.
Yes, wildone63, the phrase that will pay in court is that you are pleading guilty but would request that the penalty be £60 with 3 points as if you'd been able to pay the FPN which you were unable to pay for administrative reasons out of your control. It's in the "Magistrates' Sentencing Guidelines", section 72 or 189 off the top of my head - you'll be able to find them online and locate the relevant section Anyone can plead a case in an attempt to avoid court, but the decision is of course somebody else's. By all means contact them & you may get lucky.
As far as I can see all that would be really unfair would be you having to pay a larger fine than the original FPN.
I also can't see somebody in a FPN office worrying massively if it were pointed out that they made a clerical error in relation to two separate offences a day apart (involving the same person in the same car) that they mistakenly took to be one. It's not exactly a career breaker.
Edited by vonhosen on Thursday 8th November 22:22
- and ask that your case be sentenced according to that section.You know you're guilty, and "going off on one" won't get you the £60 + 3 points; you'll have to specifically ask for it and politely explain the mistakes that led to your appearance in court on the day.
You could always put it in writing though as mitigation when pleading guilty - it's in the "Guidelines" after all and isn't dark arts stuff...
Unfortunately you'll also get hit with the "victim surcharge", although when it was £15 (pre October 1st) the Magistrates would occasionally fine a driver in your situation £45 and add the £15 "victim surcharge" to give £60 as per an FPN (plus the 3 points of course).
What you're saying does smack of mistakes made elsewhere, admittedly
- but you can get away with paying the £60 plus probably the "victim surcharge" and still get only 3 points if you're canny 
. ^ I've seen exactly that happen in admin error cases - £60 + £15 victim surcharge. I do recall someone well known getting the foe reduced to £45 as mentioned above, but don't know if that's such a routine thing.
However it's going to come out that the OP got caught twice in two days, and the Mags may not take too kindly to that!
However it's going to come out that the OP got caught twice in two days, and the Mags may not take too kindly to that!
vonhosen said:
As far as I can see all that would be really unfair would be you having to pay a larger fine than the original FPN.
I've had this happen to me - DVLA cock up meaning I couldn't present my licence to take the FPN so I had to go to court - 5 points and £300 fine - that's good UK justice for you.V8RX7 said:
vonhosen said:
As far as I can see all that would be really unfair would be you having to pay a larger fine than the original FPN.
I've had this happen to me - DVLA cock up meaning I couldn't present my licence to take the FPN so I had to go to court - 5 points and £300 fine - that's good UK justice for you.vonhosen said:
V8RX7 said:
vonhosen said:
As far as I can see all that would be really unfair would be you having to pay a larger fine than the original FPN.
I've had this happen to me - DVLA cock up meaning I couldn't present my licence to take the FPN so I had to go to court - 5 points and £300 fine - that's good UK justice for you.He was offered a FPN and couldn't take it up due to a cock up - seems pretty similar to me.
V8RX7 said:
vonhosen said:
V8RX7 said:
vonhosen said:
As far as I can see all that would be really unfair would be you having to pay a larger fine than the original FPN.
I've had this happen to me - DVLA cock up meaning I couldn't present my licence to take the FPN so I had to go to court - 5 points and £300 fine - that's good UK justice for you.He was offered a FPN and couldn't take it up due to a cock up - seems pretty similar to me.
wildone63 said:
Wozy68 said:
Why don't you just fk off. You lowlife. It's tts like you that have totally fked up this country. You selfless self satisfied .
Hmmmm, feel better now. No wonder the guy has posted so often. Must work for government to be so far up his own arse. :-)
LOL i bet theres not many people on this forum would have done what he said.k off. You lowlife. It's tts like you that have totally fked up this country. You selfless self satisfied .Hmmmm, feel better now. No wonder the guy has posted so often. Must work for government to be so far up his own arse. :-)
Ive found many times in the past in certain circumstances that it pays to keep quiet if you are aware that a mistake has been made which you could benefit from
wildone63 said:
LOL i bet theres not many people on this forum would have done what he said.
Ive found many times in the past in certain circumstances that it pays to keep quiet if you are aware that a mistake has been made which you could benefit from
I think many of us would keep quiet, but we'd also keep hold of our "get out of jail free" card rather than throw it away. Ive found many times in the past in certain circumstances that it pays to keep quiet if you are aware that a mistake has been made which you could benefit from
What you're claiming happened has no proof. You knew you were in the wrong to keep quiet and you knew they were in the wrong not to accept your payment.
I'm baffled why you would dispose of such a useful piece of info.
Let me see if I've got this right. You did a speed awareness course for a speeding offence. Then you got caught again for speeding very shortly before taking the speed awareness course ?
Therefore two speeding offences took place. The Course cancels out the first offence, but the second gives you a fixed penalty notice and 3 points.
You can only do one speed awareness course every 2 years (so I was told when I did mine). As they are going to court for non payment of FPN then be prepared for a 50% hike in the penalty.
To put it bluntly, you sped, you got caught, you take the wrap. It's harsh I know, but facts are facts.
Therefore two speeding offences took place. The Course cancels out the first offence, but the second gives you a fixed penalty notice and 3 points.
You can only do one speed awareness course every 2 years (so I was told when I did mine). As they are going to court for non payment of FPN then be prepared for a 50% hike in the penalty.
To put it bluntly, you sped, you got caught, you take the wrap. It's harsh I know, but facts are facts.
LoonR1 said:
I'm baffled why you would dispose of such a useful piece of info.
I don't dispute what the OP is saying but I'm also surprised by how quickly he must have taken the speed awareness course for the first offence if he'd done it before the conditional offer was processed for the second offence (bearing in mind the offences were on consecutive days).
wildone63 said:
Both speeding offences and the speed awareness course took place in northumbria police area,i returned my acceptance of the fixed penalty offer to northumbria police hq,but i had to post my licence and cheque to
Fixed Penalty Office
PO Box 223
Morley
Leeds
LS27 1ND
Who told you to send it to Morley?Fixed Penalty Office
PO Box 223
Morley
Leeds
LS27 1ND
I would have thought the correct address would have been in Northumbria area.
But the BIG mistake you made was binning that letter, that is probably prime evidence that what you say is true.
Monkey boy 1 said:
Let me see if I've got this right. You did a speed awareness course for a speeding offence. Then you got caught again for speeding very shortly before taking the speed awareness course ?
Therefore two speeding offences took place. The Course cancels out the first offence, but the second gives you a fixed penalty notice and 3 points.
You can only do one speed awareness course every 2 years (so I was told when I did mine). As they are going to court for non payment of FPN then be prepared for a 50% hike in the penalty.
To put it bluntly, you sped, you got caught, you take the wrap. It's harsh I know, but facts are facts.
Nearly right. In this instance the OP sent off the fine & licence, but due to an apparent error on the authorities side they returned both saying his SAC had covered it. Therefore two speeding offences took place. The Course cancels out the first offence, but the second gives you a fixed penalty notice and 3 points.
You can only do one speed awareness course every 2 years (so I was told when I did mine). As they are going to court for non payment of FPN then be prepared for a 50% hike in the penalty.
To put it bluntly, you sped, you got caught, you take the wrap. It's harsh I know, but facts are facts.
Don’t know if the OP was aware of the conditions of the SAC (one course within a given time period) but then decided – “b
ks- Their mistake I’ve tried to pay the fine, I’ve kept my part of the deal – They have cocked up - I’m going to forget about it”daz3210 said:
But the BIG mistake you made was binning that letter, that is probably prime evidence that what you say is true.
Yep I agree, it can be a pain to keep reams of paperwork, but for anything vaguely official which may be even slightly useful in future, I take a photo and store on the hard drive - no hassle and a 1.5 TB HDD will store a lot of letters!wildone63 said:
Back in august i accepted the offer of a fixed penalty of £60 for a speeding offence (37 in a 30 zone)and sent away my licence and cheque by recorded delivery,the fixed penalty unit to where i sent the letter was in a different force area to the prosecuting constabulary.
I was pleasantly suprised a week later when the fixed penalty unit returned my licence (without points added)and the cheque along with a covering letter stating that 'our records indicate that you have recentley completed a speed awareness course therefore no further action will be taken against you'.
This was correct becuase i had recentley attended the course in relation to another speeding offence,so,in effect the course had covered me for both offences...phew!
Imagine my outrage when today i received a summons to court for prosecution for speeding ,the same incident for which i had already complied with the fixed penalty offer
After calming down and reading through the summons its obvious that there has been some gross lack of communication between the fixed penalty office and the prosecuting constabulary,resulting in a civilian police worker employed by the prosecuting constabulary in reporting me for having failed to comply with the fixed penalty offer and thereby triggering a prosecution for the original speeding offence.
What to do now?
I dont now have the 'no further action will be taken against you' letter that i received from the fixed penalty office and i dont now have the recorded delivery receipt i got from the post office when posting my licence and cheque.
It seems i can only hope that the fixed penalty office will have their decision on record and will supply me with proof of this,anyhow i will be phoning them tommorrow to explain things.
Over to you lot.
Cheers.
This is bizarre.. So to confirm you had been caught speeding recently once and done the Speed Awareness course, then subsequently been caught again and offered a FPN (as per guidelines) which you accepted for the second offence (quite rightly). They have then sent this FPN back to you and advised that no further action will be taken? Then you have been summonsed to court? I was pleasantly suprised a week later when the fixed penalty unit returned my licence (without points added)and the cheque along with a covering letter stating that 'our records indicate that you have recentley completed a speed awareness course therefore no further action will be taken against you'.
This was correct becuase i had recentley attended the course in relation to another speeding offence,so,in effect the course had covered me for both offences...phew!
Imagine my outrage when today i received a summons to court for prosecution for speeding ,the same incident for which i had already complied with the fixed penalty offer
After calming down and reading through the summons its obvious that there has been some gross lack of communication between the fixed penalty office and the prosecuting constabulary,resulting in a civilian police worker employed by the prosecuting constabulary in reporting me for having failed to comply with the fixed penalty offer and thereby triggering a prosecution for the original speeding offence.
What to do now?
I dont now have the 'no further action will be taken against you' letter that i received from the fixed penalty office and i dont now have the recorded delivery receipt i got from the post office when posting my licence and cheque.
It seems i can only hope that the fixed penalty office will have their decision on record and will supply me with proof of this,anyhow i will be phoning them tommorrow to explain things.
Over to you lot.
Cheers.
The very worst case scenario now would be a £60 fine and 3 points because you have effectively already accepted your punishment, which they offered. It would be like accepting an £80 FPN for Drink and disorderly and then upon attempting to pay the powers that be sudenly deciding to summons you to court. They cannot withdraw that now and increase the fine/points in court.
Neezer said:
This is bizarre.. So to confirm you had been caught speeding recently once and done the Speed Awareness course, then subsequently been caught again and offered a FPN (as per guidelines) which you accepted for the second offence (quite rightly). They have then sent this FPN back to you and advised that no further action will be taken? Then you have been summonsed to court?
The very worst case scenario now would be a £60 fine and 3 points because you have effectively already accepted your punishment, which they offered. It would be like accepting an £80 FPN for Drink and disorderly and then upon attempting to pay the powers that be sudenly deciding to summons you to court. They cannot withdraw that now and increase the fine/points in court.
What are you basing these statements on? The OP has thrown away all evidence that supports his version of events so it'll just be his word that it happened. The very worst case scenario now would be a £60 fine and 3 points because you have effectively already accepted your punishment, which they offered. It would be like accepting an £80 FPN for Drink and disorderly and then upon attempting to pay the powers that be sudenly deciding to summons you to court. They cannot withdraw that now and increase the fine/points in court.
Time for an update,firstly i'll clear some confusion up
I got caught speeding on 2 consecutive days,but both fixed penalty offers arrived about 2-3 weeks apart,for the first offence i was subsequently offered and booked myself on the speed awareness course,this was even before the second fixed penalty offer arrived.A couple of weeks later,around the time i took the course the second fixed penalty offer arrived to which i admitted being the driver and sent off the £60 plus my licence to have points added.
When the fixed penalty office returned my licence and £60 stating that no further action would be taken due to my having completed the course i genuinely assumed that the fixed penalty office had decided that because both offences were on consecutive days (19hrs apart)and i had completed the course that it would not be in the public interest for me to be fined £60 and be given 3 points.So all posters who claim i was trying to 'keep quiet'or trying to hide something are wrong
daz3210 - ive now been told the fixed penalty office at morley is the central collection office for the north east and yorkshire.
covboy - can you tell me where in this thread i have written 'I’m going to forget about it'?
I spoke to the central collecting office at Morley today and it seems that they cocked up by neglecting to inform northumbria police that i had complied with the conditions of the fixed penalty offer,and they do still have a copy of the letter which they sent me stating that no further action would be taken against me.
I also spoke to northumbria police and explained the situation,and they are going to speak to their colleagues at Morley on monday about the matter,and i will be informed then as to how things stand.
The only thing which still could be a problem is that the fixed penalty office at Morley are now saying that their decision to take no further action against me was a mistake,and that the person who wrote that letter got mixed up between the first offence for which i took the course and the second offence for which i sent my licence and £60 to them,but if they go ahead with prosecution i will be contending that any decision made by the fixed penalty office whether right or wrong is not for debate at the court hearing and that the only matter that the court will be interested in hearing is that i complied with the conditions of the fixed penalty offer,and that no prosecution ought to have been started,and if the police still want their £60 and 3 points then that is a seperate matter and they will have to go and start all over again.
I got caught speeding on 2 consecutive days,but both fixed penalty offers arrived about 2-3 weeks apart,for the first offence i was subsequently offered and booked myself on the speed awareness course,this was even before the second fixed penalty offer arrived.A couple of weeks later,around the time i took the course the second fixed penalty offer arrived to which i admitted being the driver and sent off the £60 plus my licence to have points added.
When the fixed penalty office returned my licence and £60 stating that no further action would be taken due to my having completed the course i genuinely assumed that the fixed penalty office had decided that because both offences were on consecutive days (19hrs apart)and i had completed the course that it would not be in the public interest for me to be fined £60 and be given 3 points.So all posters who claim i was trying to 'keep quiet'or trying to hide something are wrong
daz3210 - ive now been told the fixed penalty office at morley is the central collection office for the north east and yorkshire.
covboy - can you tell me where in this thread i have written 'I’m going to forget about it'?
I spoke to the central collecting office at Morley today and it seems that they cocked up by neglecting to inform northumbria police that i had complied with the conditions of the fixed penalty offer,and they do still have a copy of the letter which they sent me stating that no further action would be taken against me.
I also spoke to northumbria police and explained the situation,and they are going to speak to their colleagues at Morley on monday about the matter,and i will be informed then as to how things stand.
The only thing which still could be a problem is that the fixed penalty office at Morley are now saying that their decision to take no further action against me was a mistake,and that the person who wrote that letter got mixed up between the first offence for which i took the course and the second offence for which i sent my licence and £60 to them,but if they go ahead with prosecution i will be contending that any decision made by the fixed penalty office whether right or wrong is not for debate at the court hearing and that the only matter that the court will be interested in hearing is that i complied with the conditions of the fixed penalty offer,and that no prosecution ought to have been started,and if the police still want their £60 and 3 points then that is a seperate matter and they will have to go and start all over again.
wildone63 said:
...any decision made by the fixed penalty office whether right or wrong is not for debate at the court hearing and that the only matter that the court will be interested in hearing is that i complied with the conditions of the fixed penalty offer,and that no prosecution ought to have been started,
Good luck with that - the only matter the court will be interested in is whether you were speeding or not.However I would be pretty amazed if they do proceed with this.
Deva Link said:
Good luck with that - the only matter the court will be interested in is whether you were speeding or not.
However I would be pretty amazed if they do proceed with this.
It ought not even have to get to the stage where the court will be interested in hearing whether i was speeding or not.and there is no question about whether i was speeding,i already admitted that before i accepted the fixed penalty offer.However I would be pretty amazed if they do proceed with this.
I imagine that most people would also be amazed if they proceed with this,
but then again......http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/4203375.stm
Edited by wildone63 on Friday 9th November 19:24
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