Motor Trader & SOGA / Refund
Discussion
petergukM500 said:
Bought the car blind off ebay.
Didn't go to owners registered address to collect.
V5 not in his name.
And you believed it was a private sale? Good luck in the motor trade.
Hi PeterDidn't go to owners registered address to collect.
V5 not in his name.
And you believed it was a private sale? Good luck in the motor trade.
I was happy that it may not be from a private individual.
They put 12 months MOT on the vehicle.
What I did not expect was that it would have a Mickey Mouse MOT.
Thank you for your constructive comments.
TROOPER88 said:
petergukM500 said:
Bought the car blind off ebay.
Didn't go to owners registered address to collect.
V5 not in his name.
And you believed it was a private sale? Good luck in the motor trade.
Hi PeterDidn't go to owners registered address to collect.
V5 not in his name.
And you believed it was a private sale? Good luck in the motor trade.
I was happy that it may not be from a private individual.
They put 12 months MOT on the vehicle.
What I did not expect was that it would have a Mickey Mouse MOT.
Thank you for your constructive comments.
I have been at it a few years myself, mainly japanese performance stuff pushing 10-15 years old. I have a list on contacts that I would buy from on word of mouth alone. A random ebayer does not appear on that list.
You should simply not have bought the car without inspecting it first, on a lift or with someone who knows what they are looking at.
Chasing the MOT centre for compensation is a waste of time. Chasing the seller is a waste of time. Learn from it and don't get caught out again buying cars unseen.
Sorry to be harsh but this is the reality. It should be common sense but we have all got caught out at some stage along the way.
markmullen said:
wolf1 said:
Hang on a minute, You are by admission trading and bought from another so called trader, I do have that right don't I?
Then I may be wrong but trade to trade there is no guarantee or soga etc as you are both deemed to be proficient enough to know what you are doing etc. For that reason I'm not 100% sure you can go the full consumer protection just a member of the public route.
.
This.Then I may be wrong but trade to trade there is no guarantee or soga etc as you are both deemed to be proficient enough to know what you are doing etc. For that reason I'm not 100% sure you can go the full consumer protection just a member of the public route.
.
You're either in the trade, or not.
If you are then you bought the car through the trade, from a trader, and you suck it up. Trade deals are no comeback, those of us who do this for a living understand that.
If the other trader states it was the best of 30 golf's he'd had in the ebay advert, and our chap buys on that basis (sight unseen - which suggests it would pass the reliance test) it seems misrepresentation and/or breach of contract it's a complete shed.
The other trader - irrespective of the MOT - is a professional and hence is held to a high standard of ability to describe the car accurately. There seems to be a claim here - though whether it is worth the cost/hassle is another matter.
TomJS said:
Not sure I agree with this Mark.
If the other trader states it was the best of 30 golf's he'd had in the ebay advert, and our chap buys on that basis (sight unseen - which suggests it would pass the reliance test) it seems misrepresentation and/or breach of contract it's a complete shed.
The other trader - irrespective of the MOT - is a professional and hence is held to a high standard of ability to describe the car accurately. There seems to be a claim here - though whether it is worth the cost/hassle is another matter.
Legally yes, but that assumes the OP is going to go legal on it, which, given the value we're discussing is improbable. The description is subjective at best, how do you know the other 29 weren't even worse. If he'd advertised it as needing for nothing, perfect as new condition then fair enough. As it is would you go to court on the basis of as open a statement as that? I sure as hell wouldn't waste money on solicitors on a job like this.If the other trader states it was the best of 30 golf's he'd had in the ebay advert, and our chap buys on that basis (sight unseen - which suggests it would pass the reliance test) it seems misrepresentation and/or breach of contract it's a complete shed.
The other trader - irrespective of the MOT - is a professional and hence is held to a high standard of ability to describe the car accurately. There seems to be a claim here - though whether it is worth the cost/hassle is another matter.
Within the trade it is accepted that if you buy a car through the trade there are no comebacks.
The OP appears to be operating as a trader, whilst expecting the protection he would have as a private buyer.
markmullen said:
Legally yes, but that assumes the OP is going to go legal on it, which, given the value we're discussing is improbable. The description is subjective at best, how do you know the other 29 weren't even worse. If he'd advertised it as needing for nothing, perfect as new condition then fair enough. As it is would you go to court on the basis of as open a statement as that? I sure as hell wouldn't waste money on solicitors on a job like this.
Within the trade it is accepted that if you buy a car through the trade there are no comebacks.
The OP appears to be operating as a trader, whilst expecting the protection he would have as a private buyer.
MarkWithin the trade it is accepted that if you buy a car through the trade there are no comebacks.
The OP appears to be operating as a trader, whilst expecting the protection he would have as a private buyer.
Where did I state that I was looking for the same protection as a private buyer??
I am not sure what court cases you have been involved in but here we are talking about a county court not a crown court!
I do not need a solicitor.
I have been sold a car which has been misrepresented by a trader; whther legally there is a difference between 'trader - trader' is a matter which I will look into.
I will quite happily keep this thread alive throughout the process.
Cheers
TROOPER88 said:
Mark
Where did I state that I was looking for the same protection as a private buyer??
I am not sure what court cases you have been involved in but here we are talking about a county court not a crown court!
I do not need a solicitor.
I have been sold a car which has been misrepresented by a trader; whther legally there is a difference between 'trader - trader' is a matter which I will look into.
I will quite happily keep this thread alive throughout the process.
Cheers
You seem to be wanting the protection of a private buyer in terms of SOGA satisfactory quality. It is a trade sale.Where did I state that I was looking for the same protection as a private buyer??
I am not sure what court cases you have been involved in but here we are talking about a county court not a crown court!
I do not need a solicitor.
I have been sold a car which has been misrepresented by a trader; whther legally there is a difference between 'trader - trader' is a matter which I will look into.
I will quite happily keep this thread alive throughout the process.
Cheers
You're right, you can turn up at County Court without a solicitor, whether it is wise is another question.
Where is the misrepresentation? The vague statement about it being the best of 30? Best of luck litigating on that basis. I would suggest you're pissing in the wind. Or are you basing your case on an assumption that as it had an MOT relatively recently that it should be in good condition? Again that isn't an argument I'd waste money on in court.
Your man might have a moody MOT station on hand, and you can no doubt cause at least the MOT station some bother over that, but in real terms you got legged with a cheap car by not doing your homework, don't waste any more time or money than necessary on it. Get it back, get it welded up, punt it on again.
markmullen said:
You seem to be wanting the protection of a private buyer in terms of SOGA satisfactory quality. It is a trade sale.
You're right, you can turn up at County Court without a solicitor, whether it is wise is another question.
Where is the misrepresentation? The vague statement about it being the best of 30? Best of luck litigating on that basis. I would suggest you're pissing in the wind. Or are you basing your case on an assumption that as it had an MOT relatively recently that it should be in good condition? Again that isn't an argument I'd waste money on in court.
Your man might have a moody MOT station on hand, and you can no doubt cause at least the MOT station some bother over that, but in real terms you got legged with a cheap car by not doing your homework, don't waste any more time or money than necessary on it. Get it back, get it welded up, punt it on again.
Original advert:You're right, you can turn up at County Court without a solicitor, whether it is wise is another question.
Where is the misrepresentation? The vague statement about it being the best of 30? Best of luck litigating on that basis. I would suggest you're pissing in the wind. Or are you basing your case on an assumption that as it had an MOT relatively recently that it should be in good condition? Again that isn't an argument I'd waste money on in court.
Your man might have a moody MOT station on hand, and you can no doubt cause at least the MOT station some bother over that, but in real terms you got legged with a cheap car by not doing your homework, don't waste any more time or money than necessary on it. Get it back, get it welded up, punt it on again.
Here we have a rare Capri Green metallic 1991 3dr VW Golf GTI 8v. Overall condition is fantastic and unbelieveable for a 22 year old car. The car has receipts for over £3000 for work completed plus stamped service history/VW owners pack and old MOT's. Family owned last 5 years and maintained regardless of cost.
Condition
In stunning condition and a real headturner. I have owned upwards of 30 MK2's including a number of low mileage ex-show cars. This car is up with the best and stunning for a 22 year old car. The bodywork is really superb and all the original factory stickers are reassuringly still present. I'm a perfectionist so have just had the bonnet resprayed due to one or two stonechips. The rest of the bodywork was great already and you will struggle to find another anywhere this level. Would be a great car to take to the VW shows due to rare colour and overall excellent condition. Bumpers and trim have a lovely black sheen and aren't at all faded. Underneath is extremely solid in all the usual problem areas.
Will be sold with full MOT and already taxed so ready to drive away. Has had a recent cambelt, clutch, cylinder head overhaul, heater matrix and mk3 rear brake caliper upgrade so all the usual problematic areas are sorted. Receipts to prove all the work as well. In fact, the car has receipts for everything. The car has being maintained very well by mature owners for the last 10 years. Furthermore, the car comes with a stamped service history booklet upto 100k and the old MOT's dating back to 2002.
Fitted with lovely BBS style alloy wheels. In great condition and still look nice and bright with good tyres.
Interior is the rare original blue/grey 'Ultraviolet' type in excellent condition. Never smoked in and both carpets and seats (original blue/grey 'Ultraviolet' type) show little signs of wear. Rear seat looks like brand new and the ashtray has never being used! Headlining is nice and tight still and all instruments and displays work 100% including the MFA computer. Sunroof opens and shuts fine with no leaks. Fitted with a very nice Panasonic face-off CD player. Parcel shelf uncut.
As you would expect with this level of history and the work completed the car drives faultlessly. Mileage is a genuine 161k which is low for year. Very smooth engine and the transmission is very quiet with a nice smooth gear change (no second gear crunch!). Power Steering works fine and the suspension is still nice and taut. Brakes recently overhauled so again all A1 here (receipts to prove). Engine bay left largely untouched/original (not tarted up) as I like buyers to see the originality (factory wax proofing).
markmullen said:
With knowledge of that then yes, the statement that it is solid underneath is a misrepresentation.
Returning to my earlier point though, for the values involved, how far are you prepared to push it?
I complete money claim on-line for circa £30. By mid-week the court papers will be sent and a date set. This usually ia at Northampton County Court.Returning to my earlier point though, for the values involved, how far are you prepared to push it?
I turn up and put my case forward. I really do not see what I have to loose?
TROOPER88 said:
I complete money claim on-line for circa £30. By mid-week the court papers will be sent and a date set. This usually ia at Northampton County Court.
I turn up and put my case forward. I really do not see what I have to loose?
It doesn't work that way.I turn up and put my case forward. I really do not see what I have to loose?
You will file your claim and pay your £30.
That will then be sent to the the defendant by Northampton County Court.
The defendand will be given time to respond.
If they file a defence then you are asked to submit further claim paperwork and pay another fee.
The case will likely be moved to the defendants local court.
Your hearing is scheduled.
You turn up, likely for the whole day as courts now schedule a dozen or so cases for the same time.
All this will likley take 4 months or so.
PurpleMoonlight said:
It doesn't work that way.
You will file your claim and pay your £30.
That will then be sent to the the defendant by Northampton County Court.
The defendand will be given time to respond.
If they file a defence then you are asked to submit further claim paperwork and pay another fee.
The case will likely be moved to the defendants local court.
Your hearing is scheduled.
You turn up, likely for the whole day as courts now schedule a dozen or so cases for the same time.
All this will likley take 4 months or so.
I am not in a rush to be honest.You will file your claim and pay your £30.
That will then be sent to the the defendant by Northampton County Court.
The defendand will be given time to respond.
If they file a defence then you are asked to submit further claim paperwork and pay another fee.
The case will likely be moved to the defendants local court.
Your hearing is scheduled.
You turn up, likely for the whole day as courts now schedule a dozen or so cases for the same time.
All this will likley take 4 months or so.
I have the Audi RS2 to prep and sell and a Golf R32
Just get it welded up by someone who is good at welding It might only cost a couple of hundred uk pounds.
When you bought it did you tell him you were a trader and offered him less for it as a trade sale ?
Did you sell it on as a trader to your buyer?
Are you a trader or not?
If you bought it as a trader you have zero come back that's how it works and you can't have it both ways!
When you bought it did you tell him you were a trader and offered him less for it as a trade sale ?
Did you sell it on as a trader to your buyer?
Are you a trader or not?
If you bought it as a trader you have zero come back that's how it works and you can't have it both ways!
I have to admit when I saw you stated selling cars, I thought about the potential risks you were putting onto yourself.
I have had a go at trading, more buying a cheap car and sell it a few month later for a bit more. I have lost a maybe a grand, ebay is a big gamble, it lulls you into a false sense of security but can easily wipe you out. the ease of purchasing medium and the whole set up feels like you are getting a bargain but as you have found out it is not always peaches and cream.
Chalk it up but make sure you follow thru with the action, but selling cars, especially older ones is a mine field as in reality you need luck, plenty of time to sort the s
t ones out and a lift.
I have had a go at trading, more buying a cheap car and sell it a few month later for a bit more. I have lost a maybe a grand, ebay is a big gamble, it lulls you into a false sense of security but can easily wipe you out. the ease of purchasing medium and the whole set up feels like you are getting a bargain but as you have found out it is not always peaches and cream.
Chalk it up but make sure you follow thru with the action, but selling cars, especially older ones is a mine field as in reality you need luck, plenty of time to sort the s
t ones out and a lift.pcvdriver said:
aw51 121565 said:
... If this is "all is above board" then I'm a dutchman - and ze clogsh and ze shmokesh are shtaying in zeir cupboard 
. As should your money, until you've appealed against the MoT yourself???
actually in Dutch it would be.... De klompen en de roken verblijft in de kast!!! . As should your money, until you've appealed against the MoT yourself???
.
markmullen said:
This.
You're either in the trade, or not.
If you are then you bought the car through the trade, from a trader, and you suck it up. Trade deals are no comeback, those of us who do this for a living understand that.
Hi GuysYou're either in the trade, or not.
If you are then you bought the car through the trade, from a trader, and you suck it up. Trade deals are no comeback, those of us who do this for a living understand that.
Just to put this case to bed as I do not like it when people start threads but never add the outcome.
I fully refunded the car on Monday and had arranged for it to be collected today (Friday).
Since I was sure the guy I had the car from was a trader I decided (against what most of you said here) to open a county court case against him.
I started the process on Monday, he would have received the court papers on Wednesday and by Wednesday afternoon he had fully refunded me in full direct into my bank account.
He is now going to collect the car himself on Friday.
Thanks for all of your input.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff