PCSO's pay

[vonhosen]

Elroy Blue said:

Even now we are suffering the loss of Officers before their two years probation ends. They join full of thoughts they'll change the world, with a chance to progress.
They now see they've got 40 years of having their head kicked in with crap pay and no chance if improving it. It rapidly becomes 'fk this' and they leave. The cost in lost training and development is immense.
These 'reforms' are paper savings introduced by clueless idiots with a Political agenda

They are trying to reduce the training costs (ie making them pay to gain a CPK etc)

[Derek Smith]

Elroy Blue said:

Even now we are suffering the loss of Officers before their two years probation ends. They join full of thoughts they'll change the world, with a chance to progress.
They now see they've got 40 years of having their head kicked in with crap pay and no chance if improving it. It rapidly becomes 'fk this' and they leave. The cost in lost training and development is immense.
These 'reforms' are paper savings introduced by clueless idiots with a Political agenda

In the late 60s/early 70s police pay was poor then as well, the cut in wages coming from an extended period of no or well below inflation increases. The difference then was that there was full employment so the 50% norm was circa 7 years service. The pension was a very clever move. If officers left at 7 years, or indeed any time up until pensionable age, they lost a fortune so to leave was a big decision after you'd got some in. As now, the cost of training offices to leave before they became useful was seen as a massive waste.

Politicians just never learn.

The conditions in the 60s/70s allowed PCs to have their domestic lives ruined with cancelled rest days with little compensation, but still somewhat better than they are at present.

When I joined there were eight others in the group, all were 'selected'. This included the two with pre cons, which only came to light after two or three years, one for GBH with intent, this in Germany. Another stole from prisoners and would search vagrants and take half their money. By 10 years, every one of us had left the force: I was the last to go. Not that unusual.

A lot of what kept PCs in post has been removed by Cameron in his attack on the service.

Sooner or later the job situation will change. Those of ability who have stayed on will leave before that. Those of middling ability will then go once other jobs at more money, better conditions and pay come along, and so we will be left with the dregs policing us.

Despite rose tinted spectacles, the service in the 60s and 70s was not fit for purpose, with violence towards prisoners hardly infrequent, fitting up going on all the time, and bribery a way of life for a substantial minority. It would appear that Cameron wants those days back, 'cause that's the way it is going.

Of course the intelligent ones in short service will go.

In my time there were lots of better paid jobs out there for the majority of my career. Had not my wife been supportive of having to live from week to week, having no TV, no car, no holidays, I would have had to, like so many colleagues, gone for the better money. Had I been messed around like officers are now, I'm sure I would have moved on.

Some time agao I saw a colleague who worked with me on a job with a credit card company after which we were both offered jobs. I turned it down, he, recently divorced and just one kid, went for it. He said then, before Cameron's knives had done their job, that whilst his job had positives and negatives, as the police has, he was happy with his decision. He put into words what I feel: 'I wouldn't stick it for 10 minutes today. There's no comparison now.'

So more pay, better conditions, an office of your own(!), even when an inspector I hardly ever had that, better retirement with the pension, shares and other benefits, and a social life. The flow of officers leaving the job will become a flood.

Politicians never learn because they don't want to.

[vonhosen]

Derek Smith said:

Politicians never learn because they don't want to.

They learn that short term is what matters, because if can't win that they'll (personally) have no long term.

[4rephill]

Elroy Blue said:

Even now we are suffering the loss of Officers before their two years probation ends. They join full of thoughts they'll change the world, with a chance to progress.
They now see they've got 40 years of having their head kicked in with crap pay and no chance if improving it. It rapidly becomes 'fk this' and they leave. The cost in lost training and development is immense.
These 'reforms' are paper savings introduced by clueless idiots with a Political agenda

An ex-colleague of Mine left our place to join the Police. He went through all of his training and started work as a P.C, and just as you say: Thinking he would be able to make a difference and make the streets a bit safer.

After a year he jacked it in because he found that to do the job you end up taking loads of aggro, very few people seem to appreciate what you're trying to do, you end up spending 25% of your time on the street and 75% of your time at the station dealing with the paperwork, minor offences were not being dealt with because the paperwork involved made it more trouble than it was worth, and it left him completely disillusioned!

It may have been that in reality he simply wasn't really cut out to be a Police Officer but it does seem to be quite a common story.

Talking to him and to a friends husband who is a Sergeant in the Police, I have a lot of respect for what they do and what they're up against. I know for a fact that I wouldn't be able to do it.

That's why I'm always polite to the Police when dealing with them (don't get the wrong idea BTW, I'm only talking about traffic stops where the Police like to let Me know that: "Yes, Speed matters - especially when it's above the posted limit!"), because I appreciate that it's nothing personal (unlike some on here who seem to think the Police are out to get them!), they're just trying to do a job that's already difficult and it's made even more difficult by constantly changing legislation and threats of lawsuits for the slightest thing (Mind you, I am from an era where you were brought up to have a strict respect for the Police!).

As for Sergeants and their pay, My friends husband earns a lot more money than I do and yet he still pleads poverty at every opportunity! These days I just smile and let him say his piece! (Saves on having loads of arguments that end up getting us nowhere!).

[XCP]

I have grave doubts as to whether the Govt actually want policing to be seen as a life time career. they would rather people went to college, got a degree in policing and then signed a short term contract, with no pension liability. Renewal optional.
Senior officers to be parachuted in from the Armed Forces or civil service as required.

Cheap and cheerful. Everyone wins.

[vonhosen]

XCP said:

I have grave doubts as to whether the Govt actually want policing to be seen as a life time career. they would rather people went to college, got a degree in policing and then signed a short term contract, with no pension liability. Renewal optional.
Senior officers to be parachuted in from the Armed Forces or civil service as required.

Cheap and cheerful. Everyone wins.

That looks like a model.

[Red 4]

XCP said:

I have grave doubts as to whether the Govt actually want policing to be seen as a life time career. they would rather people went to college, got a degree in policing and then signed a short term contract, with no pension liability. Renewal optional.
Senior officers to be parachuted in from the Armed Forces or civil service as required.

Cheap and cheerful. Everyone wins.

Winsor wants "commissions" - short/ medium term contracts to you and me.

It's in his recommendations.

Direct entry at inspector and super rank is also in there, so you're pretty much spot on.

[mph1977]

ferrariF50lover said:

£28,836, unless this website is wrong...

http://www.metpolicecareers.co.uk/newconstable/pay...

I do appreciate the differences and accept that any direct comparison between the two careers is not really possible. However, if I were to see on the News at 10 tonight that both police officers and members of the armed forces had been out on strike (just go with it) over pay and conditions, while I'd perhaps feel that they both have a case, I know which I'd feel had the more valid gripe.

Simon.

that's the Met with sveral thousand pounds of Cost of Living Allowances, outside the met and adjacent forces the new PC is on 19-22k depending on exactly which contract and where they are in the pay system both in contract terms and the progression ( traditionally a police offcer recieved his/ her first incremental increase before the first anniversary of appointment at the point when they were signed off as capable of working independently ( but still a probationer) - the lowest rate of pay being reserved for those in training and during the initial relatively closely supervised pghase of their probationary period (being 'puppy walked' by a tutor )

[mph1977]

Red 4 said:

XCP said:

I have grave doubts as to whether the Govt actually want policing to be seen as a life time career. they would rather people went to college, got a degree in policing and then signed a short term contract, with no pension liability. Renewal optional.
Senior officers to be parachuted in from the Armed Forces or civil service as required.

Cheap and cheerful. Everyone wins.

Winsor wants "commissions" - short/ medium term contracts to you and me.

It's in his recommendations.

Direct entry at inspector and super rank is also in there, so you're pretty much spot on.

this is also where the whole 'College of Policing ' thing sits along with individual personal registration for Sworn Officers - just like Health Professionals

pay to train via a degree / train as a HE student on a Bursary depending on whether you want a 30 week year / 40 + week year and how many hours of praxctice placements you require ( Nurses and Midwives do 2300 practice / 2300 in Uni in 3 years , some HCPC professions do as few as 1000 hours over three years, iirc the requirement for Paramedics is 1500 placement hours)