It's coming - EU cross-border exchange of information

[Usget]

So how will this work for leased vehicles then, where the lease company is both owner and registered keeper? Should we all lease £299pcm Golf Rs and give them the beans in France? (Asking for a friend, natch)

[Dog Star]

I'm unclear about what this means; getting fines is something you run a risk of when abroad.

However when I'm in France (I used to live there) I'm very conscious of the fact that they really are revenue raising, the number of coppers with speed guns is simply incredible. Fines is one thing but having these people pursue you for penalty points is simply not on IMO.

[TooMany2cvs]

Dog Star said:

I'm unclear about what this means; getting fines is something you run a risk of when abroad.

However when I'm in France (I used to live there) I'm very conscious of the fact that they really are revenue raising, the number of coppers with speed guns is simply incredible. Fines is one thing but having these people pursue you for penalty points is simply not on IMO.

They can't and won't be adding points.

If you get pinged in France, then the ONLY change is that this enables the French to request RK details from the plate. Everything is then under French law, just the same as if they stopped you at the time.

The UK can already request RK details from France, because France put this into law a couple of years ago, while the UK tried to refuse.

[Dog Star]

TooMany2cvs said:

They can't and won't be adding points.

Thanks - that's ok then.

[EU_Foreigner]

I wonder if the UK insurance companies are then going to include fines received abroad as well in their questionnaire.

[Dog Star]

EU_Foreigner said:

I wonder if the UK insurance companies are then going to include fines received abroad as well in their questionnaire.

I'm sure that they'd love to. Interesting point.

What naffs me off about this - hence my interest in the points situation - is that it's a lot easier to get nicked in a lot of countries, France for one, than it is in the UK. I find the number of speed traps in France staggering. That crappy NSL equivalent that they have doesn't help either.

[TooMany2cvs]

Dog Star said:

What naffs me off about this - hence my interest in the points situation - is that it's a lot easier to get nicked in a lot of countries, France for one, than it is in the UK. I find the number of speed traps in France staggering. That crappy NSL equivalent that they have doesn't help either.

Umm, it's a whole 4mph lower than the UK NSL on single carriageways, and less than 2mph lower on dual...

[CABC]

TooMany2cvs said:

Dog Star said:

What naffs me off about this - hence my interest in the points situation - is that it's a lot easier to get nicked in a lot of countries, France for one, than it is in the UK. I find the number of speed traps in France staggering. That crappy NSL equivalent that they have doesn't help either.

Umm, it's a whole 4mph lower than the UK NSL on single carriageways, and less than 2mph lower on dual...

and you can go 10mph faster on the autoroute….
oh little englanders.

[ncjones]

Driving back up through France last Saturday we realised it'd be a last run before this legislation starts.

Found out just how close the limit the cameras are set these days. Set one off at a sat nav indicated 133kph (85mph on the speedo)....and another at 138 and another 140 kph!

[EU_Foreigner]

Noticed on one of the trips that a UK car changed his plates when arriving in France. Curious if the French Gendarme even check plates if you get stopped or is this a new measure to avoid getting anything in the post if/when the exchange starts taking place.

[Trax]

So, they can now ask for the RK details, when they could not before. OK, and we can assume our dumb ass civil servants, or whoever is in charge of such things will just hand over the details, then what are the consequences?

There courts abroad can issue a fine, will it be the case that you should pay it if planning to go back to that country, or ignore if you won't, as they can do nothing else?

[bmw320ci]

Found this on the European Member States Legislation site

It details at the end what information is given to trigger the information they are obliged to send back

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?qid...

[rdjohn]

Today is the day that it starts to happen, apparently

https://www.theaa.com/european-breakdown-cover/dri...

[Motorrad]

Presumably even if they get your details any fine they impose is enforceable only in the country in question. They could quite easily send you a fine having gained details of the rk but how would they actually enforce payment?
I've heard of companies like 'euro parking collection' chasing up people in the UK for parking fines but how can they take you to court in the UK and obtain judgement?

[agtlaw]

The legislative mechanism already exists.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2008/4/part/6/...

Also see CrimPR, rule 30.10

[FiF]

Looking at the list of offences, what about more serious offences? Presumably the mechanism exists to extradite drivers back to UK or wherever who, say, have caused collisions but fled the country. How often do we do this?

As an example did we ever manage to get Gerald Nevard back from Australia after he fled an arrest warrant for causing death by dangerous back in 1974. I do know why the Solicitor General didn't apply for extradition back in 74 when he fled to avoid appearing in court.

These offences listed are at the relatively minor end of the scale. Wondered about more serious offences.

[agtlaw]

European Arrest Warrant?

[Motorrad]

agtlaw said:

The legislative mechanism already exists.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2008/4/part/6/...

Also see CrimPR, rule 30.10

Interesting, what safeguards are in place to ensure an English speaking person has an equal right to appeal against claims made in foreign jurisdictions? Or does 'justice' apply selectively depending on if you're a polyglot or not?

[Helluvaname]

agtlaw said:

The legislative mechanism already exists.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2008/4/part/6/...

Also see CrimPR, rule 30.10

As I read that, the Lord Chancellor sends the request to a designated officer who refers it the local Magistrates Court to (85(3)) "decide whether any of the grounds for refusal apply".

Then (85(4)) the officer reports the decision of the Magistrates Court to the Lord Chancellor.

I'm not clear whether that decision is just whether and "grounds for refusal apply", or whether the Magistrates Court have made some other decision:
a) if it is just that there are "no grounds for refusal", what happens next?
b) if the Magistrates Court makes some other decision, then there appears to be no provision for the "defendant" to attend and state their case? And what happens next?

[agtlaw]

D gets a summons.