Joining the Police
Discussion
Tom1312 said:
Red 4 said:
Never known anyone refer to a tutor constable role as "Gucci". 
You must be firearms if you're that lacking in comprehensive ability 
Glad to be out. Had my fill, frankly.
My point still stands though. Tutoring probationers (or student officers to be all modern) isn't a Gucci role. It's (very) basic policing.
Dealing with sudden deaths and shoplifters never really floated my boat.
Red 4 said:
I'm retired due to an IOD.
Glad to be out. Had my fill, frankly.
My point still stands though. Tutoring probationers (or student officers to be all modern) isn't a Gucci role. It's (very) basic policing.
Dealing with sudden deaths and shoplifters never really floated my boat.
Sorry to hear that, however, nobody has said it's a Gucci role.Glad to be out. Had my fill, frankly.
My point still stands though. Tutoring probationers (or student officers to be all modern) isn't a Gucci role. It's (very) basic policing.
Dealing with sudden deaths and shoplifters never really floated my boat.
It was used to try and put a point across about experience gained as an SC and a new PC.
Prohibiting said:
I've been a Police Special for 6 months for Gloucestershire and last week I emailed my SC Inspector that I'm resigning.
Doing the Specialing around a full time job and with a wife also working full time was near impossible. I seriously don't know how some specials can manage it. The only way would be to be living with parents and working a part time job.
Coupled with the fact that the regulars are constantly grumbling, shift work, terrible pay and the rubbish they have to put up with- no thanks. I was talking to a regular who only joined last year, aged 25 and he wasn't sure if he made the right choice. Another regular I spoke to, middle aged man, been in the force for 15 years basically sighed and said "only 15 more years left until I can retire." That's the attitude.
Does the bloke with 15 years in realise he probably won't be able to retire in 15 years??? He's probably one of the many that doesn't understand what has been done to his pension!Doing the Specialing around a full time job and with a wife also working full time was near impossible. I seriously don't know how some specials can manage it. The only way would be to be living with parents and working a part time job.
Coupled with the fact that the regulars are constantly grumbling, shift work, terrible pay and the rubbish they have to put up with- no thanks. I was talking to a regular who only joined last year, aged 25 and he wasn't sure if he made the right choice. Another regular I spoke to, middle aged man, been in the force for 15 years basically sighed and said "only 15 more years left until I can retire." That's the attitude.
I have got 21 years service and I'm still somewhere between 14 and 20 years from my pension.
I personally am slowly coming to realise that the worst thing we have all done is have that "can do" attitude as mentioned by another poster. That attitude has resulted in us being treated like dirt by the government with working conditions being constantly eroded and most peoples work load increased to an unmanageable and dangerous level.
I have also realised what the answer is, for individual cops to stop caring, to go to work and deal with everything they are allocated thoroughly and properly and not be constantly rushing to the next job without finishing the first one. Not caring about the many jobs that are always outstanding without officers to deal with them. Not caring that we are now providing a fairly crap service to decent people because we are so over stretched. It is only by not caring that good people will survive without being mentally and physically broken. I see very good people falling down mentally every single day simply because demand and the pressure to deal with that demand is so great.
Me? I definitely fall into the broken category at the moment but I still care, I still go to work and do my best, I don't want to take time off sick because I don't want to drop my colleagues deeper in it. I know I am doing the wrong thing but its because I care. I just wish I didn't any more.
ED209 said:
Prohibiting said:
I've been a Police Special for 6 months for Gloucestershire and last week I emailed my SC Inspector that I'm resigning.
Doing the Specialing around a full time job and with a wife also working full time was near impossible. I seriously don't know how some specials can manage it. The only way would be to be living with parents and working a part time job.
Coupled with the fact that the regulars are constantly grumbling, shift work, terrible pay and the rubbish they have to put up with- no thanks. I was talking to a regular who only joined last year, aged 25 and he wasn't sure if he made the right choice. Another regular I spoke to, middle aged man, been in the force for 15 years basically sighed and said "only 15 more years left until I can retire." That's the attitude.
Does the bloke with 15 years in realise he probably won't be able to retire in 15 years??? He's probably one of the many that doesn't understand what has been done to his pension!Doing the Specialing around a full time job and with a wife also working full time was near impossible. I seriously don't know how some specials can manage it. The only way would be to be living with parents and working a part time job.
Coupled with the fact that the regulars are constantly grumbling, shift work, terrible pay and the rubbish they have to put up with- no thanks. I was talking to a regular who only joined last year, aged 25 and he wasn't sure if he made the right choice. Another regular I spoke to, middle aged man, been in the force for 15 years basically sighed and said "only 15 more years left until I can retire." That's the attitude.
I have got 21 years service and I'm still somewhere between 14 and 20 years from my pension.
I personally am slowly coming to realise that the worst thing we have all done is have that "can do" attitude as mentioned by another poster. That attitude has resulted in us being treated like dirt by the government with working conditions being constantly eroded and most peoples work load increased to an unmanageable and dangerous level.
I have also realised what the answer is, for individual cops to stop caring, to go to work and deal with everything they are allocated thoroughly and properly and not be constantly rushing to the next job without finishing the first one. Not caring about the many jobs that are always outstanding without officers to deal with them. Not caring that we are now providing a fairly crap service to decent people because we are so over stretched. It is only by not caring that good people will survive without being mentally and physically broken. I see very good people falling down mentally every single day simply because demand and the pressure to deal with that demand is so great.
Me? I definitely fall into the broken category at the moment but I still care, I still go to work and do my best, I don't want to take time off sick because I don't want to drop my colleagues deeper in it. I know I am doing the wrong thing but its because I care. I just wish I didn't any more.
Tom1312 said:
Red 4 said:
I'm retired due to an IOD.
Glad to be out. Had my fill, frankly.
My point still stands though. Tutoring probationers (or student officers to be all modern) isn't a Gucci role. It's (very) basic policing.
Dealing with sudden deaths and shoplifters never really floated my boat.
Sorry to hear that, however, nobody has said it's a Gucci role.Glad to be out. Had my fill, frankly.
My point still stands though. Tutoring probationers (or student officers to be all modern) isn't a Gucci role. It's (very) basic policing.
Dealing with sudden deaths and shoplifters never really floated my boat.
It was used to try and put a point across about experience gained as an SC and a new PC.
I agree with your point about Specials and Regular Officers (of short service) - the level of knowledge required and experience gained even in a short length of time are not comparable.
No disrespect to Specials but they will only have an insight into the job, irrespective of what they may think.
I did 24 years in various roles. The job was in a constant state of change throughout that period (although the actual policing aspect didn't really change that much, if that makes sense !).
I'll echo what ED209 says though. I would not recommend the police as a long term career for anyone thinking of joining today.
Conditions of Service, pension changes and the general day to day toll policing takes on you (you'll feel that more as you get older) don't make the police service a good, long term career choice.
By all means join if you want to.
You will experience things that the vast majority of people never will (some good, some bad, some utterly bizarre and some downright nasty things) but keep your options open.
Set your sights on becoming a train driver within 10 - 15 years !
Greendubber said:
ED209 said:
Prohibiting said:
I've been a Police Special for 6 months for Gloucestershire and last week I emailed my SC Inspector that I'm resigning.
Doing the Specialing around a full time job and with a wife also working full time was near impossible. I seriously don't know how some specials can manage it. The only way would be to be living with parents and working a part time job.
Coupled with the fact that the regulars are constantly grumbling, shift work, terrible pay and the rubbish they have to put up with- no thanks. I was talking to a regular who only joined last year, aged 25 and he wasn't sure if he made the right choice. Another regular I spoke to, middle aged man, been in the force for 15 years basically sighed and said "only 15 more years left until I can retire." That's the attitude.
Does the bloke with 15 years in realise he probably won't be able to retire in 15 years??? He's probably one of the many that doesn't understand what has been done to his pension!Doing the Specialing around a full time job and with a wife also working full time was near impossible. I seriously don't know how some specials can manage it. The only way would be to be living with parents and working a part time job.
Coupled with the fact that the regulars are constantly grumbling, shift work, terrible pay and the rubbish they have to put up with- no thanks. I was talking to a regular who only joined last year, aged 25 and he wasn't sure if he made the right choice. Another regular I spoke to, middle aged man, been in the force for 15 years basically sighed and said "only 15 more years left until I can retire." That's the attitude.
I have got 21 years service and I'm still somewhere between 14 and 20 years from my pension.
I personally am slowly coming to realise that the worst thing we have all done is have that "can do" attitude as mentioned by another poster. That attitude has resulted in us being treated like dirt by the government with working conditions being constantly eroded and most peoples work load increased to an unmanageable and dangerous level.
I have also realised what the answer is, for individual cops to stop caring, to go to work and deal with everything they are allocated thoroughly and properly and not be constantly rushing to the next job without finishing the first one. Not caring about the many jobs that are always outstanding without officers to deal with them. Not caring that we are now providing a fairly crap service to decent people because we are so over stretched. It is only by not caring that good people will survive without being mentally and physically broken. I see very good people falling down mentally every single day simply because demand and the pressure to deal with that demand is so great.
Me? I definitely fall into the broken category at the moment but I still care, I still go to work and do my best, I don't want to take time off sick because I don't want to drop my colleagues deeper in it. I know I am doing the wrong thing but its because I care. I just wish I didn't any more.
"Does the bloke with 15 years in realise he probably won't be able to retire in 15 years??? He's probably one of the many that doesn't understand what has been done to his pension!"
This is the thing I keep hearing. Bobbies who stayed on response for (or aiming for) 30yrs just to get their pension.
Why do that? Why hang in if your that miserable?
You only have one life so why spend it in a job purely as you aren't getting above the rank of PC and you aren't happy?
'your pension isn't the same as ours'? Really 30 yrs of misery paying circa 400 a month miserable for that pension?
I know PCs who loved it, loved their time as a PC in various departments, got up and moved around. Some who really begrudge SLT.
In any job if you aren't happy don't hang around. I bet a few decided to stay put as they realised they'd never get 40k a year with their mindset.
Sorry to moan but the service will get worse, then it'll get better.
It seems endemic. In my training I remember others saying to me 'why are you doing extra work'? Your not getting paid for it etc.
Kinda of a moan but also a discussion point.
Lots of roles to be had and levels.
This is the thing I keep hearing. Bobbies who stayed on response for (or aiming for) 30yrs just to get their pension.
Why do that? Why hang in if your that miserable?
You only have one life so why spend it in a job purely as you aren't getting above the rank of PC and you aren't happy?
'your pension isn't the same as ours'? Really 30 yrs of misery paying circa 400 a month miserable for that pension?
I know PCs who loved it, loved their time as a PC in various departments, got up and moved around. Some who really begrudge SLT.
In any job if you aren't happy don't hang around. I bet a few decided to stay put as they realised they'd never get 40k a year with their mindset.
Sorry to moan but the service will get worse, then it'll get better.
It seems endemic. In my training I remember others saying to me 'why are you doing extra work'? Your not getting paid for it etc.
Kinda of a moan but also a discussion point.
Lots of roles to be had and levels.
As a service, the system is broken largely due to under-funding. Yes there have been bad management decisions along the way and some of the stuff that reaches the headlines is frankly embarrassing however, there are still good roles to be in which dont have to suck every last bit of morale out of you.
So many cops moan about their position yet they are the same cops that never apply for other positions, either through apathy, fear of rejection or laziness. There are those who love front line work (not necessarily in response) and have good and bad days.
I'm lucky that I'm in a Gucci (as described) role, 13 years in and have had some great times in the variety of roles that i've put myself in. I do wonder where Tom1312 makes his overtime as I'm top whack and i'm barely clearing what he's coming out with although in my role there isn't as much. I also like a decent work/life balance.
The pay isnt as good as it was, and if you're in the south its genuinely got to be something you consider. That could change with a government, it may be that they always consider us a soft touch so they erode our conditions further. My private sector mates are better off than me, but their jobs are dull in comparison with mine. It depends what you value.
I've had thoughts of leaving in the past but i'm enjoying it again so i'll keep doing what I do until it starts feeling like work again. All jobs have their ups and downs and this one is no different.
So many cops moan about their position yet they are the same cops that never apply for other positions, either through apathy, fear of rejection or laziness. There are those who love front line work (not necessarily in response) and have good and bad days.
I'm lucky that I'm in a Gucci (as described) role, 13 years in and have had some great times in the variety of roles that i've put myself in. I do wonder where Tom1312 makes his overtime as I'm top whack and i'm barely clearing what he's coming out with although in my role there isn't as much. I also like a decent work/life balance.
The pay isnt as good as it was, and if you're in the south its genuinely got to be something you consider. That could change with a government, it may be that they always consider us a soft touch so they erode our conditions further. My private sector mates are better off than me, but their jobs are dull in comparison with mine. It depends what you value.
I've had thoughts of leaving in the past but i'm enjoying it again so i'll keep doing what I do until it starts feeling like work again. All jobs have their ups and downs and this one is no different.
Police culture is very process rather than people orientated. This causes stress.
As someone else has said, the good will and ‘can do’ nature of police culture has not helped the police at all.
My view, which was very popular with the management above... was that the staff came first. I didn’t care how many grade 2 / priority incidents failed their targets etc. Getting people working 10 hour shifts a break / food was more important than attending 99% of garbage on the incident queue.
The police need a more militant attitude like that. As well as recording every crime possible which the Home Office won’t like.
As someone else has said, the good will and ‘can do’ nature of police culture has not helped the police at all.
My view, which was very popular with the management above... was that the staff came first. I didn’t care how many grade 2 / priority incidents failed their targets etc. Getting people working 10 hour shifts a break / food was more important than attending 99% of garbage on the incident queue.
The police need a more militant attitude like that. As well as recording every crime possible which the Home Office won’t like.
Sa Calobra said:
It'll come full circle with proper funding.
And who is going to decide to increase funding ?The Tories ? Or any government for that matter ?
You may recall Theresa May accusing the police of "Crying wolf" when the Polfed highlighted some issues and said the service was in crisis.
Politicians don't care about police numbers as long as they get their own protection officers (for life in some cases).
Do you really think they care what happens on a daily basis in some less privileged parts of the country/ in other people's lives.
Funding is only one issue facing the police.
La Liga said:
The police need a more militant attitude like that. As well as recording every crime possible which the Home Office won’t like.
I agree - but with no real rights what do you expect them to do ?Overtime/ goodwill ban ? How long do you think that would last ?
Re; the crime recording figures I'm not sure many Chief Constables would be so brave.
Especially if their actions may spoil any chances of a Knighthood/ a cosy little number post retirement/ a seat in The House of Lords (well and truly sorted for life).
Red 4 said:
La Liga said:
The police need a more militant attitude like that. As well as recording every crime possible which the Home Office won’t like.
I agree - but with no real rights what do you expect them to do ?Overtime/ goodwill ban ? How long do you think that would last ?
Re; the crime recording figures I'm not sure many Chief Constables would be so brave.
Especially if their actions may spoil any chances of a Knighthood/ a cosy little number post retirement/ a seat in The House of Lords (well and truly sorted for life).
The majority of crimes are now recorded during the initial call to the police by call takers that have little experience and training. This means allegations that don't meet the points to prove for a crime get recorded.
For example as soon as someone says they are harassed/alarmed/distressed over someone else behaviour crimes of harassment/public order/malicious communications are getting recorded by the million regardless of whether the persons perception is reasonable or if what they allege actually amounts to the legal definition of that crime.
Of course those "crimes" have to be investigated by someone so they get sent to the already over stretched response officers to try to investigate during none existent down time.
Cramming is the new cuffing! If you have ever been in the job you will know what i mean.
Not sure how Kent works but our force loves internals from places like comms and LROs as you've seen what it's like and you are a known commodity to a degree. Definitely better than Johnny with a 2.1 working in Supermarket giving his interview 'tell me a time when you handled a difficult situation'...Q&A
ED209 said:
Red 4 said:
La Liga said:
The police need a more militant attitude like that. As well as recording every crime possible which the Home Office won’t like.
I agree - but with no real rights what do you expect them to do ?Overtime/ goodwill ban ? How long do you think that would last ?
Re; the crime recording figures I'm not sure many Chief Constables would be so brave.
Especially if their actions may spoil any chances of a Knighthood/ a cosy little number post retirement/ a seat in The House of Lords (well and truly sorted for life).
The majority of crimes are now recorded during the initial call to the police by call takers that have little experience and training. This means allegations that don't meet the points to prove for a crime get recorded.
For example as soon as someone says they are harassed/alarmed/distressed over someone else behaviour crimes of harassment/public order/malicious communications are getting recorded by the million regardless of whether the persons perception is reasonable or if what they allege actually amounts to the legal definition of that crime.
Of course those "crimes" have to be investigated by someone so they get sent to the already over stretched response officers to try to investigate during none existent down time.
Cramming is the new cuffing! If you have ever been in the job you will know what i mean.
If they are incorrectly recorded they should be weeded and cancelled before they get to the point of being allocated, thats basic crime management.
Wish said:
My son applied back at the beginning of August and hasn’t heard anything since.
He’s also just applied for 999 caller for Kent police and he’s got an interview next month for that. He’s worried that taking the 999 job may effect his chances of becoming a police officer.
Why would it? If anything it would increase the chances. He’s also just applied for 999 caller for Kent police and he’s got an interview next month for that. He’s worried that taking the 999 job may effect his chances of becoming a police officer.
Bigends said:
Circs that dont amount to a crime shouldnt be recorded as a crime. If the points to prove arent met then why record it?
If they are incorrectly recorded they should be weeded and cancelled before they get to the point of being allocated, thats basic crime management.
And I agree 100% however thats not what is currently happening. Absolute garbage is getting crimed all the time.If they are incorrectly recorded they should be weeded and cancelled before they get to the point of being allocated, thats basic crime management.
ED209 said:
Bigends said:
Circs that dont amount to a crime shouldnt be recorded as a crime. If the points to prove arent met then why record it?
If they are incorrectly recorded they should be weeded and cancelled before they get to the point of being allocated, thats basic crime management.
And I agree 100% however thats not what is currently happening. Absolute garbage is getting crimed all the time.If they are incorrectly recorded they should be weeded and cancelled before they get to the point of being allocated, thats basic crime management.
Call handlers don't deal with anything, just create a log and send it through rather than signpost/direct people appropriately. Just leave a log open for 4 weeks for a bobby to call back when they get a chance.
More accurate crime recording is a double edged sword. On one hand the data is a more accurate reflection of what’s happening in a force area. On the other, the absolute bottom of the barrel rubbish like malicious communication “offences” are now recorded.
This doesn’t have to be a problem if there’s a good structure in place to file as quickly as possible, but many things can hinder this.
This doesn’t have to be a problem if there’s a good structure in place to file as quickly as possible, but many things can hinder this.
If the crime recording process is to be changed then how?
What doesnt get recorded and who decides?
If for example a minimum limit for example £150 is put on value of damage, theft etc before crimes are recorded, what happens if somebody is dealt with for those offences - do we then record those crimes? What happens if the victim suffers crime on a regular basis - but the value is under the prescribed limit - do we ignore those repeat victims?
Those minor harrassment / malicious comms offences can soon escalate to more serious offences. Early reports are the time to get involved and stop escalation.
The current rules clearly need a re-write but i'm certainly not sure what they should look like now.
What doesnt get recorded and who decides?
If for example a minimum limit for example £150 is put on value of damage, theft etc before crimes are recorded, what happens if somebody is dealt with for those offences - do we then record those crimes? What happens if the victim suffers crime on a regular basis - but the value is under the prescribed limit - do we ignore those repeat victims?
Those minor harrassment / malicious comms offences can soon escalate to more serious offences. Early reports are the time to get involved and stop escalation.
The current rules clearly need a re-write but i'm certainly not sure what they should look like now.
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