Joining the Police

[wiliferus]

Chicken Chaser said:

Derek Im glad you had your time, it probably was a golden era where they were handsomely rewarded with good pay rises, looked after with canteens, and were largely respected and left alone to look after crime.

These days they go year after year without any inflationary rise, are constantly under the cost cutting umbrella where it's all about more with less and the cameraderie of the team has had its heart ripped out by single crewing, lack of staff and the pressure of dealing with everything, including stuff you're not trained for.

I accept that the boys and girls who are throwing themselves into it are brave and the majority do it for the right reasons, but they're not supported by the men and women above them who are only interested in scrimping and saving and putting forward their portfolio of Diversity and inclusion for the next promotion board.

Nail. Head.
Derek, you served during the golden era.
I’ve got 24 in and am now away from the front line, but my other half is on response. It’s brutal. Single crews deployed to violent domestics, micro management via crime recording software that would make your eyes bleed, managers who can’t manage let alone lead.
The front line is in a very sorry state of affairs.
Policing - as in out on the streets is still satisfying. Getting the arrests, helping the vulnerable etc. But back at the Nick it’s soul destroying for them. Record numbers are leaving. Not because of the jobs they’re going to, or the workload, but largely because of the culture and lack of support.

[BossHogg]

That sounds a lot like my place but without the police work. I've been out single crewed throughout the pandemic.

[Hugo Stiglitz]

wiliferus said:

Nail. Head.
Derek, you served during the golden era.
I’ve got 24 in and am now away from the front line, but my other half is on response. It’s brutal. Single crews deployed to violent domestics, micro management via crime recording software that would make your eyes bleed, managers who can’t manage let alone lead.
The front line is in a very sorry state of affairs.
Policing - as in out on the streets is still satisfying. Getting the arrests, helping the vulnerable etc. But back at the Nick it’s soul destroying for them. Record numbers are leaving. Not because of the jobs they’re going to, or the workload, but largely because of the culture and lack of support.

A few times I was reproached by colleagues saying why are you going to domestics on your own? The thinking was 'we aren't going alone'.

(From younger in service).

I'd also been on 136 and prisoner/hospital solo.

[wiliferus]

Hugo Stiglitz said:

wiliferus said:

Nail. Head.
Derek, you served during the golden era.
I’ve got 24 in and am now away from the front line, but my other half is on response. It’s brutal. Single crews deployed to violent domestics, micro management via crime recording software that would make your eyes bleed, managers who can’t manage let alone lead.
The front line is in a very sorry state of affairs.
Policing - as in out on the streets is still satisfying. Getting the arrests, helping the vulnerable etc. But back at the Nick it’s soul destroying for them. Record numbers are leaving. Not because of the jobs they’re going to, or the workload, but largely because of the culture and lack of support.

A few times I was reproached by colleagues saying why are you going to domestics on your own? The thinking was 'we aren't going alone'.

(From younger in service).

I'd also been on 136 and prisoner/hospital solo.

I don’t know when or where you served, but in some areas numbers are critically low.
My other half’s team has a minimum strength of 12. On a shift last week they paraded 7. Two handovers, a double crewed bed watch and a scene watch left two single crewed cars to cover a town with a population over 200k and a large surrounding rural area.
On that basis if you go single crewed and yell for help, it’s either a long way away, or not coming at all….

[Chicken Chaser]

Response is the hardest job. First to make the decisions, first to make the fk ups, first ones to be criticised. Most look at other avenues to go into. That doesn't mean the specialist teams are much better off. Problem is, for those that have invested in sticking it out, get so far in and then realise that if they want to leave, they are either underskilled elsewhere, or that they are pension trapped. To retire at 55 or 60 for most now is still the carrot dangling at the end of a 30-35 year career. As soon as you decide you're out, that's pulled until everyone else retires. When you're putting 14% into it, and you're running about exposed to all manner of risk for £40k a year, then that is the kick back. I'm not even sure how attractive it still is. The programmes glorifying policing dont portray the full picture.

[superlightr]

has any service police noticed a reduction in "support" from the mop?

I feel very uneasy at the police being used by the govt to enforce covid restrictions. Its moved me to be quite negative towards the "police" as a group as I see it as the arm of the govt enforcing unjust and immoral laws.

[Porsche guy]

Some sorry tales on here, and it's only going to get worse, IMV.

[Pothole]

superlightr said:

has any service police noticed a reduction in "support" from the mop?

I feel very uneasy at the police being used by the govt to enforce covid restrictions. Its moved me to be quite negative towards the "police" as a group as I see it as the arm of the govt enforcing unjust and immoral laws.

You've identified that they're being used, you know they can't just down tools and still you're negative to a nebulous entity that has no real form in the way you're imagining it? Maybe not your most intelligent decision?

[Derek Smith]

wiliferus said:

Hugo Stiglitz said:

wiliferus said:

Nail. Head.
Derek, you served during the golden era.
I’ve got 24 in and am now away from the front line, but my other half is on response. It’s brutal. Single crews deployed to violent domestics, micro management via crime recording software that would make your eyes bleed, managers who can’t manage let alone lead.
The front line is in a very sorry state of affairs.
Policing - as in out on the streets is still satisfying. Getting the arrests, helping the vulnerable etc. But back at the Nick it’s soul destroying for them. Record numbers are leaving. Not because of the jobs they’re going to, or the workload, but largely because of the culture and lack of support.

A few times I was reproached by colleagues saying why are you going to domestics on your own? The thinking was 'we aren't going alone'.

(From younger in service).

I'd also been on 136 and prisoner/hospital solo.

I don’t know when or where you served, but in some areas numbers are critically low.
My other half’s team has a minimum strength of 12. On a shift last week they paraded 7. Two handovers, a double crewed bed watch and a scene watch left two single crewed cars to cover a town with a population over 200k and a large surrounding rural area.
On that basis if you go single crewed and yell for help, it’s either a long way away, or not coming at all….

I’m not sure I worked in a golden age. I knw that support was hardly ever there from management.

When I joined the pay was so poor that if I’d had a third child I could have claimed supplementary benefit. I had to sell my car, TV and central heating (coal fired) was only on over the weekend. I got into debt.

Further, I worked in an environment where there was a firm within a firm and you had to be oh so careful what you said or did. My sergeant once told me, when I was on a cross-division unit, not to do any jobs in a certain division as I’d upset the DI and the DCI.

The wages did increase to an acceptable level, but it wasn’t quite as good as publicised as it was over 3 years and we lost any yearly increases, derisory though they normally were.

I patrolled on my own as a response PC. For a year or so, I didn’t even have a radio. If I needed help, there was a whistle. Oddly, and counter-intuitively, it worked after a fashion.

The way the police have been treated with Cameron, May and Johnson is a scandal. The pay is poor but, allowing for inflation and cost of living, it’s not nearly as low as it was in my day. My parents used to bring me food parcels. We depended on them.

I’ve turned up at pub fights on my own. It was the norm.

The front line’s normal state is dire. I enjoyed a period when staffing was high, but in my second force, cars patrolled single-crewed. This was in the late 80s. Things a worse now I agree, but they will get better.

Senior managers, from chief inspector up, have always been, in the main, self-absorbed.

Conditions are currently dreadful and the attack on the likes of the Federation mean that pressure for change is difficult. However, when I started, conditions were also dreadful.

I was in training for a while. An old stager reckoned that PCs have always said that being on patrol, out of the nick, was always the best place to be. It’s not so much the norm, as set in stone.

It’s fair to say that the extended retirement date was expected, and for some years. The pension is not as good as reported of course, but still expensive for the government as they did not put any money into a pot. They just wasted it.

I’ve not seen many serving officers over the last 18 months or so, but before Xmas 2019, a friend had just retired after 35 years and said that morale was the worst he could remember. In that sense, it is worse than when I joined, on dreadfully low pay, as we all thought we were the business. There was a lot of support for the police from the government and limited interference. A PC was attacked by two Sottish football supporters in Liverpool Street. The PC was quite badly injured. The crowd had gone to his aid and the offender got the first ambulance because of the state he was in.

Nowadays, with the government being anti-police, and briefing against them, I wonder if the same thing would happen.

When I joined, there was scandal after scandal in the Mets for corruption that was organised at a high level. Then the City police CID organising armed raids and murders, yet it was accepted that the majority of us were straight. Now we have the most honest police ever yet many, as shown on here, reckon they are corrupt all the way through because of things that happened in the 80s.

[carinaman]

Pothole said:

superlightr said:

has any service police noticed a reduction in "support" from the mop?

I feel very uneasy at the police being used by the govt to enforce covid restrictions. Its moved me to be quite negative towards the "police" as a group as I see it as the arm of the govt enforcing unjust and immoral laws.

You've identified that they're being used, you know they can't just down tools and still you're negative to a nebulous entity that has no real form in the way you're imagining it? Maybe not your most intelligent decision?

You couldn't have made your point without having a dig back at superlightr?

National Decision Making Model? 'Could I have made my point without having a personal pop at the person I am responding to?'

[Derek Smith]

To the bloke who has just started:

I've retired and I miss the feeling of going out on patrol, foot or vehicle, and wondering what was going to happen. I miss the feeling of having made a change to someone's life. I miss the team spirit, the fact that I worked with people I could depend on. I miss patrolling in the wee smalls, in shirt sleeves, with the town all to myself. What other job could I have done that would have given me such a range of experiences?

(Clue: the answer begins with an N.)

[carinaman]

Cold War Steve needs to do a line of Cops in yellow High Vis with caps on and batons raised over their shoulders with Johnson, Hancock and Patel on a balcony pissing on them from above?

[Pothole]

carinaman said:

Pothole said:

superlightr said:

has any service police noticed a reduction in "support" from the mop?

I feel very uneasy at the police being used by the govt to enforce covid restrictions. Its moved me to be quite negative towards the "police" as a group as I see it as the arm of the govt enforcing unjust and immoral laws.

You've identified that they're being used, you know they can't just down tools and still you're negative to a nebulous entity that has no real form in the way you're imagining it? Maybe not your most intelligent decision?

You couldn't have made your point without having a dig back at superlightr?

National Decision Making Model? 'Could I have made my point without having a personal pop at the person I am responding to?'

I probably could have. It wouldn't have reflected how his post made me feel as accurately, though.

[Pothole]

carinaman said:

Cold War Steve needs to do a line of Cops in yellow High Vis with caps on and batons raised over their shoulders with Johnson, Hancock and Patel on a balcony pissing on them from above?

I could probably facilitate that.

[Bigends]

Well done to the op on this post - enjoy your time in your own way and make your own decisions in relation to your feelings towards the job. i served in the same era as Derek - 30yrs on patrol, foot and mobile - single crewed 90% of the time - i'm not sure why everybody seems to think we were double crewed, likewise in relation to support by senior officers - rarely got the time of day from many of them. Pay and conditions were ste but improved gradually over the years. Golden era? dont think so - but different to now certainly.

[BossHogg]

I know I was only Military Police, when I joined in 1986, going out on patrol there were no decent radios, you were out of range a mile from the station, I had no stab vest, CS, cuffs, baton etc. Like Derek, I had a whistle and my wits. No mobile phones back then. If I needed assistance, I had to ask someone to phone for me or try and find a payphone. Even our cars were rubbish, we had Vauxhall Chevettes and Cavaliers.

[pavarotti1980]

And dont do this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-5...

[Derek Smith]

BossHogg said:

I know I was only Military Police, when I joined in 1986, going out on patrol there were no decent radios, you were out of range a mile from the station, I had no stab vest, CS, cuffs, baton etc. Like Derek, I had a whistle and my wits. No mobile phones back then. If I needed assistance, I had to ask someone to phone for me or try and find a payphone. Even our cars were rubbish, we had Vauxhall Chevettes and Cavaliers.

It was fun though, wasn't it.

[BossHogg]

Derek Smith said:

BossHogg said:

I know I was only Military Police, when I joined in 1986, going out on patrol there were no decent radios, you were out of range a mile from the station, I had no stab vest, CS, cuffs, baton etc. Like Derek, I had a whistle and my wits. No mobile phones back then. If I needed assistance, I had to ask someone to phone for me or try and find a payphone. Even our cars were rubbish, we had Vauxhall Chevettes and Cavaliers.

It was fun though, wasn't it.

Sure was, plenty of places to hide for a cuppa, no GPS radios or CCTV/car trackers to spy on you!

[superlightr]

Pothole said:

superlightr said:

has any service police noticed a reduction in "support" from the mop?

I feel very uneasy at the police being used by the govt to enforce covid restrictions. Its moved me to be quite negative towards the "police" as a group as I see it as the arm of the govt enforcing unjust and immoral laws.

You've identified that they're being used, you know they can't just down tools and still you're negative to a nebulous entity that has no real form in the way you're imagining it? Maybe not your most intelligent decision?

interesting reaction.

unjust/immoral laws are there for us all to resist. Some of the recent published "enforcement" has I think been very heavy handed and disproportionate which has clearly been following the lead of the Govt. but which raises the question of if it is still a worthy career for new entrants and hence why I ask if serving officers have seen any noticeable change in the public reaction over the last 18mths

I have made lots of dumb decisions and a few good ones thankfully generally at the times it mattered.

In the past I would have thought a career in the police would have been good for my children (teens) but I think the last year or so has seen whatever esteem/respect for the police become lower in a number of people eyes because of the heavy handed and unjust enforcement of covid.
hence the question.