Roundabouts & blocking entry

[jamei303]

Mr GrimNasty said:

You should have waved your PH merge in turn card, at her.

Or even better driven into the side of her while pointing at your dashcam and crying "you're on camera! I've got a camera!"

[johnao]

Centurion07 said:

...

I was looking for clarification as to it's legality since she seemed to think she had priority PURELY because she was on a roundabout and I wondered if that trumped everything else i.e. the blocking of an entry road, which it would appear to.

What she did was not illegal. But, on this occasion it appears that hubris and self-importance trumped courtesy and consideration.

Hold on a minute; isn't there an offence of driving without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road? Yes, there is. Throw the book at her!

[rigga]

I'm guessing the police car stopping in front of your entry point was due to congestion on the road, leaving a gap so you could enter, would only increase that congestion, no?

[EazyDuz]

She could and should have given you an on the spot fine for road rage and illegal use of the horn, count yourself lucky she might bend you over with a strap on if she sees you again.

[Truffs]

Police car, on police business. Exempt, so only illegal action was you beeping and showing disrespect to the law.

Be thankful you were so insignificant or you could be facing a PCoJ charge!!!

Now if you were Wills in his Range Rover you could have put your blue lights on and demand she clear the road for you, after all he only has to face traffic when he wants to.

Edited by Truffs on Saturday 26th May 17:13

[Pericoloso]

3 year old thread in irrelevant bump shocker....

[Centurion07]

Pericoloso said:

3 year old thread in irrelevant bump shocker....

Leave them be. Not everyone has thrown their tuppence in from their high horses yet.

[CaptainMorgan]

rigga said:

I'm guessing the police car stopping in front of your entry point was due to congestion on the road, leaving a gap so you could enter, would only increase that congestion, no?

I'd assume the OP was taking another exit

[rigga]

CaptainMorgan said:

rigga said:

I'm guessing the police car stopping in front of your entry point was due to congestion on the road, leaving a gap so you could enter, would only increase that congestion, no?

I'd assume the OP was taking another exit

Irrespective of which exit the OP was intent on taking, having any vehicle stop in front if his entry would suggest he couldn't get to it.

[Centurion07]

rigga said:

I'm guessing the police car stopping in front of your entry point was due to congestion on the road, leaving a gap so you could enter, would only increase that congestion, no?

As mentioned, her line of traffic stopped due to pedestrian-controlled traffic lights about 10 metres off the roundabout.

Leaving a gap would have resulted in the cars behind her waiting exactly the same amount of time albeit a couple of car lengths further back.

Blocking me in resulted in me, and the several cars behind me, having to sit there pointlessly because she was in her own little world and couldn't be bothered to leave a gap.

[InitialDave]

oddball said:

I was searching and found this post on here but not actually the issue I was looking for however some of it was pertinent.

I was driving to a shop last night during school run time and drove down a lane about 1/4 mile long that is a 20mph zone as there are schools along it. Lots of kids all spilling out onto the footpaths and trying to cross the roads. Due to the time of day and it was raining I stuck to the legal limit for the full distance of the road which meant that by the time I got to the end I had a queue of several cars behind me bumper to bumper.
One car turned off left before I got to the end and came back on the road in front of me after speeding down an other road.
When I got to the end of the road I got to a mini roundabout with 3 exits (inclusive of the one I was entering on) I was going left or straight on to cross a small canal bridge that only has 1 car width. I could not come off due to traffic coming over the canal bridge on the other side towards the roundabout and 2 cars blocking the exit to the left turn. So if I had entered the roundabout I would have had to stop on the roundabout hence blocking it from all put people prepared to drive over the middle of the roundabout. So I decided to wait till my exit was clear which may be about 30 seconds or so.
However the guy behind me decided he had the right to start honking and swearing at me as he wanted to turn right which was clear. After he had honked at me twice I decided to stop on the roundabout and let him illegally drive over the middle of said roundabout as he was screaming obscenities at me while leaning across is young son he had just picked up from school. I just shouted back what is wrong and then he went on his way with steam coming out his ears.

So was the guy right to force me to stop on the roundabout so he could turn right by driving over the middle of it and was he right to honk his horn at me and swear?

I didn't enter as I decided blocking or starting to block the roundabout was a bad course of action when waiting for a while would not cause any problem. However I was stopping people behind me from making an illegal right turn and driving over the middle of a roundabout.

Seeing as everyone's ignoring the poor bugger who reopened this can of worms to add their own question...

He's definitely not "right" to do so, but if people get it in their heads you're trying to deliberately hold them up, they get a bit arsey. My small road runs parallel to a main A-road, and when the main road backs up, people use my road to try and get ahead and cut back on. Some of them get annoyed if you won't razz it up the road as fast as they want to. I ignore the fkers.

[oddball]

Thanks for that I was looking about through google for some info and this massive thread jumped out and I knew I was on here from some time back.

I have to admit my drive partly started off to see how people would respond if I drove legally down that route spot on 20mph on the clock and I got my answer.

[timetex]

I'm more surprised at the number of people saying you're committing an offence if you stop on a yellow box.

[jhfozzy]

timetex said:

I'm more surprised at the number of people saying you're committing an offence if you stop on a yellow box.

I have always thought you were? Care to elaborate?

http://yellowboxjunction.co.uk/Yellow-Box-Junction...

[Heres Johnny]

jhfozzy said:

timetex said:

I'm more surprised at the number of people saying you're committing an offence if you stop on a yellow box.

I have always thought you were? Care to elaborate?

http://yellowboxjunction.co.uk/Yellow-Box-Junction...

You've opened a can of worms there.

Firstly - turning right allows you to stop in the box junction

Secondly - the law and the highway code don't say quite the same thing. I don't believe the law says anything about the exit having to be clear when you enter.

[No ideas for a name]

Heres Johnny said:

You've opened a can of worms there.

Firstly - turning right allows you to stop in the box junction

Secondly - the law and the highway code don't say quite the same thing. I don't believe the law says anything about the exit having to be clear when you enter.

Can't find the exact reference at present, but I think it is even more mad...

You can't stop in a yellow box if your exit is blocked by another vehicle.
In theory you can choose to stop, as long as your exit is clear!

[jhfozzy]

No ideas for a name said:

Heres Johnny said:

You've opened a can of worms there.

Firstly - turning right allows you to stop in the box junction

Secondly - the law and the highway code don't say quite the same thing. I don't believe the law says anything about the exit having to be clear when you enter.

Can't find the exact reference at present, but I think it is even more mad...

You can't stop in a yellow box if your exit is blocked by another vehicle.
In theory you can choose to stop, as long as your exit is clear!

Looks like that is the case, haha.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/3113/conte...

TSRGD2002 said:

PART II

SIGNIFICANCE OF BOX JUNCTION MARKINGS

Interpretation of Part II of Schedule
6. In this Part of this Schedule -

(a) "box junction" means the area of carriageway marked with yellow cross-hatching at a junction between two or more roads on which there has been placed the road marking shown in diagram 1043 or 1044; and

(b) a reference (however expressed) to a vehicle which is stationary or stops within a box junction includes a vehicle which is stationary whilst part of it is within the box junction.

Prohibition conveyed by markings in diagram 1043 or 1044
7. - (1) Except when placed in the circumstances described in paragraph 8, the road markings shown in diagrams 1043 and 1044 shall each convey the prohibition that no person shall cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles.

(2) The prohibition in sub-paragraph (1) does not apply to any person -

(a) who causes a vehicle to enter the box junction (other than a box junction at a roundabout) for the purpose of turning right; and

(b) stops it within the box junction for so long as it is prevented from completing the right turn by oncoming vehicles or other vehicles which are stationary whilst waiting to complete a right turn.

[Toltec]

jhfozzy said:

Looks like that is the case, haha.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/3113/conte...

TSRGD2002 said:

PART II

SIGNIFICANCE OF BOX JUNCTION MARKINGS

Interpretation of Part II of Schedule
6. In this Part of this Schedule -

(a) "box junction" means the area of carriageway marked with yellow cross-hatching at a junction between two or more roads on which there has been placed the road marking shown in diagram 1043 or 1044; and

(b) a reference (however expressed) to a vehicle which is stationary or stops within a box junction includes a vehicle which is stationary whilst part of it is within the box junction.

Prohibition conveyed by markings in diagram 1043 or 1044
7. - (1) Except when placed in the circumstances described in paragraph 8, the road markings shown in diagrams 1043 and 1044 shall each convey the prohibition that no person shall cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles.

(2) The prohibition in sub-paragraph (1) does not apply to any person -

(a) who causes a vehicle to enter the box junction (other than a box junction at a roundabout) for the purpose of turning right; and

(b) stops it within the box junction for so long as it is prevented from completing the right turn by oncoming vehicles or other vehicles which are stationary whilst waiting to complete a right turn.

Hmm, so does that mean that if the vehicles in front are moving when you enter it you are fine? If several vehicles past the box are moving, however traffic means that they will need to stop such that vehicles already in the box will stop preventing your exit your tend to get a fine. How far ahead do you have to allow for the presence of stationary vehicles?

[simoid]

Vaud said:

https://www.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-to-203/round...

185
When reaching the roundabout you should

• give priority to traffic approaching from your right, unless directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights
• check whether road markings allow you to enter the roundabout without giving way. If so, proceed, but still look to the right before joining
• watch out for all other road users already on the roundabout; be aware they may not be signalling correctly or at all
• look forward before moving off to make sure traffic in front has moved off.

Ah yes - love a necropost! What about the other guidance though?

“Rule 151
In slow-moving traffic. You should

leave enough space to be able to manoeuvre if the vehicle in front breaks down or an emergency vehicle needs to get past;
allow access into and from side roads, as blocking these will add to congestion”


Police officer in the OP was clearly not following the Highway Code. Discourteous at best.

[Heres Johnny]

Toltec said:

Hmm, so does that mean that if the vehicles in front are moving when you enter it you are fine? If several vehicles past the box are moving, however traffic means that they will need to stop such that vehicles already in the box will stop preventing your exit your tend to get a fine. How far ahead do you have to allow for the presence of stationary vehicles?

Isn't that part of the art of reading the road? Nothing stopping you entering a box junction even if the car in front is still in the box junction if you can see there is nothing going to stop the car in front from exiting the box junction and leaving you room to also exit. If the car in front spontaneously burst into flames and had insufficient momentum leaving you potentially stuck in the box then you'd either drive round them or make a sharp left or right turn.

Too many people just ignore reading the road ahead like that, in fact too many people in queuing traffic don't even leave a gap when they're adjacent to a left side road so oncoming traffic can turn across them if they want to enter that side road. Being up the arse of the car in front rarely actually makes a difference to your journey time.