Project Thunder - Rolls Royce Meteor
Discussion
So, flush with the money from selling my steam engine, and wanting to scratch a 15-year itch, I went and bought a Meteor.
For the uninitiated, the Meteor is a 27 litre V12 engine produced by Rolls-Royce as a land-based development of the legendary Merlin aero engine. Stripped of the supercharger, propellor reduction gear and other aviation-related paraphernalia, Meteors were used to power every British heavy tank from the WW2 Cromwell up to the Centurion/Conqueror family that was replaced by Challenger and its all-new diesel "integrated power-pack" running gear. They were still in use with the Swedish Army up until the mid 90s, so availability of parts and even entire engines is still relatively decent if one knows where to look.
In naturally aspirated form, a Meteor knocks out around 650bhp and 1600lb-ft of torque. Most importantly for WW2 tank crews, it was the first heavy tank engine to make anywhere near such power, and to make it reliably - a function of its very understressed nature from being designed for forced induction. With weight-saving no longer important, and with cost in mind, a lot of the forged internals of the Merlin became cast for use in Meteors, and whenever possible the production used obsolete and/or quality-rejected Merlin parts to avoid waste.
Meteor engines were built not only by Rolls Royce, but also by Rover, Bedford, Meadows and other manufacturers under license as part of the war effort. Rover continued making the engines up until the late 60s, having done a deal in wartime to take over the majority of production for RR in a swap for their gas turbine technology, which they were struggling to develop - but which RR, under legendary jet engineer Stanley Hooker, soon turned around.
So. This particular Meteor, number R47735, was purchased in running form about 10 years ago by an aircraft-restoring friend of mine, who intended to use it for parts to rebuild a damaged Merlin, which would be worth about 10x the price. However, a change in circumstances meant that shorty after stripping it down, he sold it to a elderly collector who intended to rebuild it "one day". This never happened, and the various parts languished under a tarp in his garden for 9 years until I arrived on the scene. Having expressed my desire to one day own an aero-type engine, aero-restorer friend duly put me in touch with collector and a deal was struck.
So, then came the day of collection! 4 of us just about managed to manhandle the major components into the back of a van without killing ourselves, and so began the trek to the workshop of the aero-friend, who is going to help me stick it back together. Unloading was a lot easier at this end with the help of a 5-ton forklift truck!
Here are some snaps of the engine as it arrived. For some idea of scale, that is full-size pallet it is sitting on!
Instructions not included!
I currently only have the sellers' word that it is indeed all there - time will tell as I come to reassemble it!
I already know that a few things will need to go on the shopping list. Firstly, some ham-fisted ape (most probably at the MOD disposal contractor where the engine will originally have come from) has completely butchered the intake manifold with an angle grinder to circumvent some seized nuts and studs that would have held the airbag assembly to the top of the engine in the tank's engine bay. A lovely-looking aluminium casting, this sits in the Vee of the engine and directs air down into carburettors nestling in this warm spot to avoid icing, before bringing it back up to the intake ports at the top edges of the Vee.
Secondly, whilst Merlin engines had lovely smooth cam covers with the RR name engraved into them like so:
... the Meteor had various ancillary parts mounted to the top of it in a tank installation, so has nasty, ugly covers like this:
There is but one snag - warbird parts websites are asking £1500 for a pair of Merlin covers. They can keep on asking at that price!
Similarly for exhaust stubs - a single Spitfire exhaust stub, of which there are 6 per side, retails for around £200. Methinks I will be getting a nice custom set of stubs welded up for me out of some tube!
Problem 3 is what to put on the end of the crankshaft to give them engine a bit of weight to turn against. Obviously, if I were running a Merlin, them I would have a propellor on the end of the reduction gear. Due to the re-engineering of the Merlin into the Meteor, Meteors do not have a conventional flywheel - rather, they retain the splined female end of the crankshaft which then drives a separate clutch pack for use in tanks. This is a Centurion clutch pack - it is about 2 and a half feet across, and a foot deep. Guess how much it weighs?
Nope, you're wrong - 300kg, give or take (most of which is the casing, to be fair - though the plates inside are still pretty hefty!). Needless to say, I will be looking at having a somewhat smaller, lighter flywheel machined to fit my engine.
And that is currently where I'm up to, really. Due to being very busy with other hobbies and interests, the engine has sat untouched in my bit of the workshop. Due to the previous tenant of my area being a carpenter/boat builder with no regard for anyone else, the place was an utter tip when I took over, and everything is covered in sawdust and cement dust from the floor. I've therefore been very busy tidying up, clearing things, and turning a filthy and bodged bare wood workbench into a surgical engine reassembly area sealed with copious amounts of white paint - as PHer Vocht will attest having popped in for a visit today!
Things will really begin to get cracking when I manage to sell on a pile of 100 or so airline seats, giving me room to bring in my engine trailer and start building up the block in situ once cleaned and oiled.
For the uninitiated, the Meteor is a 27 litre V12 engine produced by Rolls-Royce as a land-based development of the legendary Merlin aero engine. Stripped of the supercharger, propellor reduction gear and other aviation-related paraphernalia, Meteors were used to power every British heavy tank from the WW2 Cromwell up to the Centurion/Conqueror family that was replaced by Challenger and its all-new diesel "integrated power-pack" running gear. They were still in use with the Swedish Army up until the mid 90s, so availability of parts and even entire engines is still relatively decent if one knows where to look.
In naturally aspirated form, a Meteor knocks out around 650bhp and 1600lb-ft of torque. Most importantly for WW2 tank crews, it was the first heavy tank engine to make anywhere near such power, and to make it reliably - a function of its very understressed nature from being designed for forced induction. With weight-saving no longer important, and with cost in mind, a lot of the forged internals of the Merlin became cast for use in Meteors, and whenever possible the production used obsolete and/or quality-rejected Merlin parts to avoid waste.
Meteor engines were built not only by Rolls Royce, but also by Rover, Bedford, Meadows and other manufacturers under license as part of the war effort. Rover continued making the engines up until the late 60s, having done a deal in wartime to take over the majority of production for RR in a swap for their gas turbine technology, which they were struggling to develop - but which RR, under legendary jet engineer Stanley Hooker, soon turned around.
So. This particular Meteor, number R47735, was purchased in running form about 10 years ago by an aircraft-restoring friend of mine, who intended to use it for parts to rebuild a damaged Merlin, which would be worth about 10x the price. However, a change in circumstances meant that shorty after stripping it down, he sold it to a elderly collector who intended to rebuild it "one day". This never happened, and the various parts languished under a tarp in his garden for 9 years until I arrived on the scene. Having expressed my desire to one day own an aero-type engine, aero-restorer friend duly put me in touch with collector and a deal was struck.
So, then came the day of collection! 4 of us just about managed to manhandle the major components into the back of a van without killing ourselves, and so began the trek to the workshop of the aero-friend, who is going to help me stick it back together. Unloading was a lot easier at this end with the help of a 5-ton forklift truck!
Here are some snaps of the engine as it arrived. For some idea of scale, that is full-size pallet it is sitting on!
Instructions not included!
I currently only have the sellers' word that it is indeed all there - time will tell as I come to reassemble it!
I already know that a few things will need to go on the shopping list. Firstly, some ham-fisted ape (most probably at the MOD disposal contractor where the engine will originally have come from) has completely butchered the intake manifold with an angle grinder to circumvent some seized nuts and studs that would have held the airbag assembly to the top of the engine in the tank's engine bay. A lovely-looking aluminium casting, this sits in the Vee of the engine and directs air down into carburettors nestling in this warm spot to avoid icing, before bringing it back up to the intake ports at the top edges of the Vee.
Secondly, whilst Merlin engines had lovely smooth cam covers with the RR name engraved into them like so:
... the Meteor had various ancillary parts mounted to the top of it in a tank installation, so has nasty, ugly covers like this:
There is but one snag - warbird parts websites are asking £1500 for a pair of Merlin covers. They can keep on asking at that price!
Similarly for exhaust stubs - a single Spitfire exhaust stub, of which there are 6 per side, retails for around £200. Methinks I will be getting a nice custom set of stubs welded up for me out of some tube!
Problem 3 is what to put on the end of the crankshaft to give them engine a bit of weight to turn against. Obviously, if I were running a Merlin, them I would have a propellor on the end of the reduction gear. Due to the re-engineering of the Merlin into the Meteor, Meteors do not have a conventional flywheel - rather, they retain the splined female end of the crankshaft which then drives a separate clutch pack for use in tanks. This is a Centurion clutch pack - it is about 2 and a half feet across, and a foot deep. Guess how much it weighs?
Nope, you're wrong - 300kg, give or take (most of which is the casing, to be fair - though the plates inside are still pretty hefty!). Needless to say, I will be looking at having a somewhat smaller, lighter flywheel machined to fit my engine.
And that is currently where I'm up to, really. Due to being very busy with other hobbies and interests, the engine has sat untouched in my bit of the workshop. Due to the previous tenant of my area being a carpenter/boat builder with no regard for anyone else, the place was an utter tip when I took over, and everything is covered in sawdust and cement dust from the floor. I've therefore been very busy tidying up, clearing things, and turning a filthy and bodged bare wood workbench into a surgical engine reassembly area sealed with copious amounts of white paint - as PHer Vocht will attest having popped in for a visit today!
Things will really begin to get cracking when I manage to sell on a pile of 100 or so airline seats, giving me room to bring in my engine trailer and start building up the block in situ once cleaned and oiled.
I used to work with a guy whose father owned a scrap yard for 40 years. He also picked up parts from planes and apparently had a large barn full of WW2 plane parts including Merlin engine parts.
When he decided to give up the game the Battle of Britain fleet turned up, had a look in the barn and offered him £180k for everything in it.
When he decided to give up the game the Battle of Britain fleet turned up, had a look in the barn and offered him £180k for everything in it.
My mistake e600!
velocefica - sounds like the workshop I'm sharing at the minute, except this one is stuffed with US radial engine parts....
Nik - why, yes - eventually!
My ultimate ambition, and I'm talking probably a good 10-15 years into the future here, is to create a road going 2-seat approximation of the marvellously ludicrous Napier-Railton:
Not that this hasn't been done before - most notably with this, the Hadleye (sp?) Special which has been around a few years. This is brilliant feat of very neat engineering and I gather has been well-executed. To my knowledge, it is based on a suitably beefy vintage Rolls Royce chassis. However, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and designer, and to me it looks bloated with the proportions all wrong - too small a grille and too-large headlamps, for a kickoff, and to my mind the fairing-in of the lower chassis with the heavily scalloped louvred bits only adds to the odd look.
Anyway, we are talking well into the future here.
For the time being, the engine will reside in a show trailer. Here is an example of a very nice show trailer. This one was built from scratch around a genuine Spitfire engine-bearer and belongs to Peter Grieve of Flight Engineering Ltd, a company that restores Merlins to airworthy spec.
This trailer is actually the Mk2 version. What happened to the Mk1 version? Well, by a great coincidence, it was purchased by the same aircraft-restoring friend who is doing my engine, and had resided in an outbuilding at his workshop for about 20 years. This version was based on the heavily modified chassis of a Sankey 3/4ton British Army trailer, so had weathered the years well, although looks rather worse for wear! A few weeks ago, some notes changed hands and I set about disinterring it:
The ex-military people among you will notice that the hitch has been cleverly moved from its usual perch with an underslung adaptor that bolts up to the existing through-chassis holes, to bring it down to the level of a civilian towbar - though the nato ring hitch itself has been retained. This is now sold, to be replaced with a normal socket hitch when I find one to fit the adaptor plate.
I know it looks a mess now, but I'm confident that a lick of paint will do wonders! I also have some new wheels that I'm currently refurbishing to go on, as the original ones pictured are tubed and I really can't be f
ked going down that road, having had to do it once before with an old Land Rover!
And that is where I am currently up to!
On a related note, I would be very grateful if anyone who ever saw and photographed the previously installed engine running on this trailer at shows would be able to send me some pictures - I currently cannot find any on the internet, and have nothing to go on reference-wise for location and plumbing of fluid tanks, electrics and the instrument panel!
velocefica - sounds like the workshop I'm sharing at the minute, except this one is stuffed with US radial engine parts....
Nik - why, yes - eventually!
My ultimate ambition, and I'm talking probably a good 10-15 years into the future here, is to create a road going 2-seat approximation of the marvellously ludicrous Napier-Railton:
Not that this hasn't been done before - most notably with this, the Hadleye (sp?) Special which has been around a few years. This is brilliant feat of very neat engineering and I gather has been well-executed. To my knowledge, it is based on a suitably beefy vintage Rolls Royce chassis. However, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and designer, and to me it looks bloated with the proportions all wrong - too small a grille and too-large headlamps, for a kickoff, and to my mind the fairing-in of the lower chassis with the heavily scalloped louvred bits only adds to the odd look.
Anyway, we are talking well into the future here.
For the time being, the engine will reside in a show trailer. Here is an example of a very nice show trailer. This one was built from scratch around a genuine Spitfire engine-bearer and belongs to Peter Grieve of Flight Engineering Ltd, a company that restores Merlins to airworthy spec.
This trailer is actually the Mk2 version. What happened to the Mk1 version? Well, by a great coincidence, it was purchased by the same aircraft-restoring friend who is doing my engine, and had resided in an outbuilding at his workshop for about 20 years. This version was based on the heavily modified chassis of a Sankey 3/4ton British Army trailer, so had weathered the years well, although looks rather worse for wear! A few weeks ago, some notes changed hands and I set about disinterring it:
The ex-military people among you will notice that the hitch has been cleverly moved from its usual perch with an underslung adaptor that bolts up to the existing through-chassis holes, to bring it down to the level of a civilian towbar - though the nato ring hitch itself has been retained. This is now sold, to be replaced with a normal socket hitch when I find one to fit the adaptor plate.
I know it looks a mess now, but I'm confident that a lick of paint will do wonders! I also have some new wheels that I'm currently refurbishing to go on, as the original ones pictured are tubed and I really can't be f
ked going down that road, having had to do it once before with an old Land Rover!And that is where I am currently up to!
On a related note, I would be very grateful if anyone who ever saw and photographed the previously installed engine running on this trailer at shows would be able to send me some pictures - I currently cannot find any on the internet, and have nothing to go on reference-wise for location and plumbing of fluid tanks, electrics and the instrument panel!
I kinda agree with you on the topic of the Handlye Special; it does look slightly awkward from some angles! It's an amazing piece of engineering though, and looks pretty spectacular if you catch it right
I think the headlights were chosen for "period" correctness, but you're right about the grille. Hard to see how such a beast gets adequate cooling. Shapely behind, mind
The Railton, on the other hand, is one of the most beautiful (if a tad brutal) creations ever. Have you seen the replica built by a Cummins engineer? He was so besotted with the original that he eventually managed to pester the Brooklands curators into letting him take all kinds of measurements and details from the real thing and set about building his own. It's got a compound-charged Cummins (inevitably, I suppose) but the bodywork is breath-taking; basically a 1/2-size exact replica. Incredible thing!
Sorry to spam up your thread with random photos, if you want to tell me to cock right off feel free and I'll nuke 'em
I think the headlights were chosen for "period" correctness, but you're right about the grille. Hard to see how such a beast gets adequate cooling. Shapely behind, mind
The Railton, on the other hand, is one of the most beautiful (if a tad brutal) creations ever. Have you seen the replica built by a Cummins engineer? He was so besotted with the original that he eventually managed to pester the Brooklands curators into letting him take all kinds of measurements and details from the real thing and set about building his own. It's got a compound-charged Cummins (inevitably, I suppose) but the bodywork is breath-taking; basically a 1/2-size exact replica. Incredible thing!
Sorry to spam up your thread with random photos, if you want to tell me to cock right off feel free and I'll nuke 'em
Have you met the PHer Storer?
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=131...
Cracking project! - updates required!
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=131...
Cracking project! - updates required!
Long time, no update!
Due to my space in the shared workshop still being full of stuff that refuses to sell on eBay, progress hasn't been quite as swift as I would have liked. This is because the plan is to build the engine up from the block in situ on the trailer, and there currently isn't the floorspace to get the trailer in and refurbished. Also, being the summer season I've been busy at shows and race events so haven't had as much working time as I'd have liked.
Some leasing via email with the builder of the trailer netted me a set of lovely pictures taken by him during his build and running of this rig, over 20 years ago! Not only are they an invaluable reference source of how everything was laid out, they are also a great inspiration of something to aim for, and I've printed out and pinned them to the wall above my workbench so as to be constantly in my sight during the project
Closer inspection has also revealed that the design was obviously subject to improvement though experience, as this early photograph shows a fuel tank up against the supercharger, a small oil tank along the side, and the batteries over the hitch.
This later photo shows a more refined design, with a lovely polished fuel tank leaving room to get at the carburettor (an updraft arrangement on the bottom of the supercharger assembly), a matching and larger oil tank to prevent frothing, and the battery tray relocated to its current position just above the axle on one side.
Sadly, that fuel tank has since disappeared, I'm informed that it was stolen when the trailer was replaced and left to stand at Millom Museum for a number of years. I could ask him to make another, but it would be prohibitively expensive as I'm informed it took a very, very long time to manufacture and get a good finish on it.
However, I have been doing the odd bits and pieces on the periphery:
Way back in march I managed to find a set of exceedingly ropey early Discovery wheels on eBay for a suitable price, and set about restoring them, turning myself first brown with rust dust, then silver with spray paint mist. It was worth it in the end, as a test-fitting shows how "right" they look even in a much more vintage setting. I'd deliberately chosen this style of wheels because as well as being plentiful to find, they just look "right" whatever the age and style of vehicle they're fitted to.
Before:
After :
Fast-forward to this weekend, and I acquired another piece of the puzzle. Whilst at Malpas Vintage Show with my aero-restoring friend and one of his cockpits, I had the chance to quickly browse some of theperipatetic folk's forlorn spreads of rusty junk and stolen power tools autojumble and trade stands. This time something caught my eye - an old petrol tank, marked up as being from a Turner boat engine, that was just about the perfect size for a 5-minute run's worth of petrol (about 5 gallons, in case you're wondering 
). I certainly couldn't argue with the asking price of £10, even if it might cost another £30 in refinishing and a tin of internal tank sealer (just to be on the safe side, as it seems in remarkably good nick inside).
I had to head over to the workshop today so I took it over and offered it up - and what do you know, it fits perfectly into the space where the supercharger would be if my engine was a proper Merlin instead of a Meteor, neatly filling what would be a large gap and taking a bulky and heavy object off the precarious location of being right over the hitch. When painted to match the trailer, and with the cap re-chromed, it'll look a treat. Result!
In the meantime, a slightly more slow-burning solution has been ongoing. When installed in a tank, the engine would have had a large and ungainly cast-iron exhaust manifold fitted to it. Naturally, I want a set of stub pipes like those in the old pictures above. I could buy a set of newly manufactured airworthy ones off the shelf, but even if I could afford the £1200 asking price, I refuse out of principle to pay 1/3 of the entire engine cost just for a set of exhausts. So, I needed to find a way of getting some made cheaply. Luckily, a chance post on a Facebook group got me in contact with a man called Barnaby, from Cumbria. Barnaby is a magician in metal, who can do pretty much anything and knows people who can do the things he can't. He's already made a lightweight racing Land Rover bumper for another PHer, who had nothing but good words to say about his work.
The problem was, Barnaby couldn't justify coming down to south Lancs to measure up the engine stud pattern, and I couldn't justify taking one of the cylinder blocks up to him. I wasn't going to measure it myself, lest I be slightly out and end up with parts that don't fit because that would then be my problem not his. With extremely good timing, the following day I received a present from another aero-restoring friend. He'd been to see a man for an unrelated project, who turned out to have hundreds of NOS consumable parts for Meteor engines, and had brought me back 2 exhaust gaskets as a teaser. Problem solved - one gasket in the post to Barnaby to use as a template, and another for me to offer up onto the engine to work out how thick and wide I wanted the flanges to be.
A few weeks and several discussions on material choice later, and a beautifully laser-cut chunk of 3/8" stainless steel arrived in a jiffy bag with a loud clang as it hit the stone floor underneath my letterbox
I took it up today to trial fit to the block, and it went on perfectly - once I'd found seemingly the only cylinder port that still had all 4 mounting studs in it, and had them all pointing in the correct direction. An all-new set of studs for both inlet and exhaust sides is on my list of things to do as they have nearly all been bent by people leaning the blocks over sideways or up against things over the years.
Now it's in the post back to Cumbria to join the other 11, and for Barnaby to TIG-weld in the stub pipes. For simplicity and thus reduced cost, I am going for a plain set of 6" long oval pipes, with the same oval cross-section as the port shape. After many discussions, it's been decided that it will be easier to roll them in 2 halves from flat 3mm sheet and weld them into pipes, than it would be to try and flatten a length of 3mm round tube.
Yes, those dimensions are right - a 3/8" flange and 3mm pipe thickness! These engines produce a LOT of heat, which has to be wicked away effectively or they burn out exhaust valves. I have seen another one running with stub pipes made from 1.5mm mild steel, and after 3 minutes they were glowing cherry red!
Anyway, that's all for tonight, as it's getting rather late! More to come later this week, concerning some fun and games (and a lot of swearing) with the inlet manifold.
Due to my space in the shared workshop still being full of stuff that refuses to sell on eBay, progress hasn't been quite as swift as I would have liked. This is because the plan is to build the engine up from the block in situ on the trailer, and there currently isn't the floorspace to get the trailer in and refurbished. Also, being the summer season I've been busy at shows and race events so haven't had as much working time as I'd have liked.
Some leasing via email with the builder of the trailer netted me a set of lovely pictures taken by him during his build and running of this rig, over 20 years ago! Not only are they an invaluable reference source of how everything was laid out, they are also a great inspiration of something to aim for, and I've printed out and pinned them to the wall above my workbench so as to be constantly in my sight during the project
Closer inspection has also revealed that the design was obviously subject to improvement though experience, as this early photograph shows a fuel tank up against the supercharger, a small oil tank along the side, and the batteries over the hitch.
This later photo shows a more refined design, with a lovely polished fuel tank leaving room to get at the carburettor (an updraft arrangement on the bottom of the supercharger assembly), a matching and larger oil tank to prevent frothing, and the battery tray relocated to its current position just above the axle on one side.
Sadly, that fuel tank has since disappeared, I'm informed that it was stolen when the trailer was replaced and left to stand at Millom Museum for a number of years. I could ask him to make another, but it would be prohibitively expensive as I'm informed it took a very, very long time to manufacture and get a good finish on it.
However, I have been doing the odd bits and pieces on the periphery:
Way back in march I managed to find a set of exceedingly ropey early Discovery wheels on eBay for a suitable price, and set about restoring them, turning myself first brown with rust dust, then silver with spray paint mist. It was worth it in the end, as a test-fitting shows how "right" they look even in a much more vintage setting. I'd deliberately chosen this style of wheels because as well as being plentiful to find, they just look "right" whatever the age and style of vehicle they're fitted to.
Before:
After :
Fast-forward to this weekend, and I acquired another piece of the puzzle. Whilst at Malpas Vintage Show with my aero-restoring friend and one of his cockpits, I had the chance to quickly browse some of the
). I certainly couldn't argue with the asking price of £10, even if it might cost another £30 in refinishing and a tin of internal tank sealer (just to be on the safe side, as it seems in remarkably good nick inside).I had to head over to the workshop today so I took it over and offered it up - and what do you know, it fits perfectly into the space where the supercharger would be if my engine was a proper Merlin instead of a Meteor, neatly filling what would be a large gap and taking a bulky and heavy object off the precarious location of being right over the hitch. When painted to match the trailer, and with the cap re-chromed, it'll look a treat. Result!
In the meantime, a slightly more slow-burning solution has been ongoing. When installed in a tank, the engine would have had a large and ungainly cast-iron exhaust manifold fitted to it. Naturally, I want a set of stub pipes like those in the old pictures above. I could buy a set of newly manufactured airworthy ones off the shelf, but even if I could afford the £1200 asking price, I refuse out of principle to pay 1/3 of the entire engine cost just for a set of exhausts. So, I needed to find a way of getting some made cheaply. Luckily, a chance post on a Facebook group got me in contact with a man called Barnaby, from Cumbria. Barnaby is a magician in metal, who can do pretty much anything and knows people who can do the things he can't. He's already made a lightweight racing Land Rover bumper for another PHer, who had nothing but good words to say about his work.
The problem was, Barnaby couldn't justify coming down to south Lancs to measure up the engine stud pattern, and I couldn't justify taking one of the cylinder blocks up to him. I wasn't going to measure it myself, lest I be slightly out and end up with parts that don't fit because that would then be my problem not his. With extremely good timing, the following day I received a present from another aero-restoring friend. He'd been to see a man for an unrelated project, who turned out to have hundreds of NOS consumable parts for Meteor engines, and had brought me back 2 exhaust gaskets as a teaser. Problem solved - one gasket in the post to Barnaby to use as a template, and another for me to offer up onto the engine to work out how thick and wide I wanted the flanges to be.
A few weeks and several discussions on material choice later, and a beautifully laser-cut chunk of 3/8" stainless steel arrived in a jiffy bag with a loud clang as it hit the stone floor underneath my letterbox
I took it up today to trial fit to the block, and it went on perfectly - once I'd found seemingly the only cylinder port that still had all 4 mounting studs in it, and had them all pointing in the correct direction. An all-new set of studs for both inlet and exhaust sides is on my list of things to do as they have nearly all been bent by people leaning the blocks over sideways or up against things over the years.
Now it's in the post back to Cumbria to join the other 11, and for Barnaby to TIG-weld in the stub pipes. For simplicity and thus reduced cost, I am going for a plain set of 6" long oval pipes, with the same oval cross-section as the port shape. After many discussions, it's been decided that it will be easier to roll them in 2 halves from flat 3mm sheet and weld them into pipes, than it would be to try and flatten a length of 3mm round tube.
Yes, those dimensions are right - a 3/8" flange and 3mm pipe thickness! These engines produce a LOT of heat, which has to be wicked away effectively or they burn out exhaust valves. I have seen another one running with stub pipes made from 1.5mm mild steel, and after 3 minutes they were glowing cherry red!
Anyway, that's all for tonight, as it's getting rather late! More to come later this week, concerning some fun and games (and a lot of swearing) with the inlet manifold.
Edited by ChemicalChaos on Tuesday 13th September 01:23
Found this thread when doing a Google search
You are not alone working on these engines with a view to putting one in a vehicle or boat!
If you look at my profile you will see I have owned a few. Currently I have 5 of differing condition and model. The earliest is a Mk III and the latest a Mk4B1 (which is what yours is). My Mk4B1 is a newly refurbished ex Danish army engine I collected from Denmark.
There are a few things you should know before you spend any more money on getting parts made to avoid issues down the line. The first relates to the exhaust manifold plates you have had made....
If you pm me I can give you a few bits of advice or point you to others that can help.
Nutters like us need to share info so that these insane projects stand a good chance of coming to fruition.
Paul
You are not alone working on these engines with a view to putting one in a vehicle or boat!
If you look at my profile you will see I have owned a few. Currently I have 5 of differing condition and model. The earliest is a Mk III and the latest a Mk4B1 (which is what yours is). My Mk4B1 is a newly refurbished ex Danish army engine I collected from Denmark.
There are a few things you should know before you spend any more money on getting parts made to avoid issues down the line. The first relates to the exhaust manifold plates you have had made....
If you pm me I can give you a few bits of advice or point you to others that can help.
Nutters like us need to share info so that these insane projects stand a good chance of coming to fruition.
Paul
The Crack Fox said:
This is why I don't have a meteor engined car - common as muck they are. 
Fruitloops like you two are what keeps me coming back to PH, please update us on your progress.
I guess you'll know Charlie Broomfield, who stuffed one in an SD1, right?
Yep, he's a mate. Saw him earlier in the week when I took him one of my 'scrap' engines so that he can use it to make the drives for a few others out there. Fruitloops like you two are what keeps me coming back to PH, please update us on your progress.
I guess you'll know Charlie Broomfield, who stuffed one in an SD1, right?
He will also make the drive for my project. The difference with mine is that I don't need to increase the engine speed at all. Most builders need to increase the engine speed by 2.5 to 3 times. I am removing the reduction hubs on my axles which solve the issue.
I also dropped off the rebuilt auto box so he has both ends to work with.
It was a 'no brainer' using Charlie as he understands the issues involve in creating the connection.
I've ridden in the SD1 but turned down the chance to drive it. I would hate being responsible for an form of damage to something he has worked so hard to build.
The car just build speed with no effort or much change in engine revs. It ticks over between 300 and 500rpm and you need no more than 1000rpm to be travelling very quickly!
He is working on getting the SD1 to do over 200mph. He is not too far away either!
Paul
PS. I hope my posts will encourage the OP to post an update, even if it is to tell us that studies are taking all his time.
small world, I'm building a Meteor-engine car too. After looking at using an old Rolls or similar chassis, I opted to go with a new frame that I've fabricated from scratch. This will allow me to use old-looking type components that are actually new. Some pix of the motor and frame attached. I plan to use a Ford C-6 auto trans and have got an adapter for it machined-up. My focus currently is on the frame and suspension, but I've a number of questions about the engine, including;
do I stick with the enormous 24V starter or somehow switch to a 12V? How the hell do you fit an alternator to this engine, it's got no accessory drive? The old hydroplanes used six Weber 48IDAs for induction, not sure if this is the way to go?
Anyway, the car will eventually look like the 1928 Rolls Phantom 16EX which I think is the best looking of those cars. Will be 144" wheelbase, run 21" wheels with Blockley tyres etc, (some of the specials I see use wheels that are too small so the whole car looks odd). I reckon three years should see it completed.
![](https://thumbsnap.com/sc/mDxngmGb.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="https://thumbsnap.com/Csi65t5w" Target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[img]https://thumbsnap.com/sc/Csi65t5w.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="https://thumbsnap.com/NiLtKZDk" Target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[img]https://thumbsnap.com/sc/NiLtKZDk.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="https://thumbsnap.com/T6zhPVt1" Target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[img]https://thumbsnap.com/sc/T6zhPVt1.jpg)
do I stick with the enormous 24V starter or somehow switch to a 12V? How the hell do you fit an alternator to this engine, it's got no accessory drive? The old hydroplanes used six Weber 48IDAs for induction, not sure if this is the way to go?
Anyway, the car will eventually look like the 1928 Rolls Phantom 16EX which I think is the best looking of those cars. Will be 144" wheelbase, run 21" wheels with Blockley tyres etc, (some of the specials I see use wheels that are too small so the whole car looks odd). I reckon three years should see it completed.
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