Non communication from architect

Non communication from architect

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Wings

Original Poster:

5,810 posts

214 months

Tuesday 25th April 2017
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Have just received planning approval on a holiday property, then obtained structural engineer’s drawings for new roof etc., then contacted a couple of local builders.

I have been attempting to make contact with architect for building specs etc. etc. with no contact back from the architect.

Whilst nothing has been signed, no contract etc., I believe the architect was looking to take the project through right to the end, using his preferred builder, and receiving payment in kind from both the builder and myself.
I believe, and could be wrong, the lack of communication is intended to blackmail me into going along with him and his builder.

What is the best way to move forward, will another architect work from the original plans, structural engineer’s report etc., and do I need a solicitor’s letter to end our working relationship.

Lesgrandepotato

371 posts

98 months

Tuesday 25th April 2017
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Did you agree to have a set of building regs drawings prepared? or is it being done under a building notice?

There may not be any drawings..

Wings

Original Poster:

5,810 posts

214 months

Tuesday 25th April 2017
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Building regulation drawings.

brianashley

500 posts

84 months

Tuesday 25th April 2017
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Vested interest . I hate it . Find someone else .

Lesgrandepotato

371 posts

98 months

Tuesday 25th April 2017
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Ok, from memory on our build, those will be submitted for approval. You should have a note that they have been approved.

You could call Building Control and see what they've had and if you have approval?

Wings

Original Poster:

5,810 posts

214 months

Wednesday 26th April 2017
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I have contacted the council’s building control, who has received nothing from the architect.

No agreement was signed with the architect, his plans having received local council’s planning approval, and I have paid the architect for the preparation of the same. My concerns are now whether I should cancel any agreement and/or understanding with this architect, and if another architect will want to take on another architect’s plans etc.

During the past few months I have been speaking to builders, window companies etc. etc., and I wonder if one of the same has contacted the architect, and the same believed he would lose any financial vested interest in selecting his own builder.

This is quite a large refurbishment project, windows £46k, underfloor heating £16k, new roof £24k, and whilst I can obtain firm prices for the same, is there a firm requirement to obtain a fixed price for the total project (every switch and socket etc.), or to place trust in the builder selected.


Lesgrandepotato

371 posts

98 months

Wednesday 26th April 2017
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Wings said:
I have contacted the council’s building control, who has received nothing from the architect.
Probably fair to assume that these don't exist then :-)
You don't necessarily need an architect to prepare the building regs drawings, an architectural technician should be able to do.

Wings said:
This is quite a large refurbishment project, windows £46k, underfloor heating £16k, new roof £24k, and whilst I can obtain firm prices for the same, is there a firm requirement to obtain a fixed price for the total project (every switch and socket etc.), or to place trust in the builder selected.
Thats either toppy or a very big building? for reference we have just bought 29 Timber and Aluminium windows and doors, triple glazed for 17k and 2500sqft of UFH for circa 4k.

You can either itemise to the letter or be on it everyday working costs and spec, given your concerns so far I think you probably want to be more at the locked down and dusted contract end of the spectrum. Its down to you and how you can work with the trades to achieve what you want done.

48Valves

1,926 posts

208 months

Wednesday 26th April 2017
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Architects are difficult to deal with at the best of times. If they are like this now, just think how difficult they will be to deal with when there are problems during the build.

I would walk and find another Architect if I were you.

Wings

Original Poster:

5,810 posts

214 months

Wednesday 26th April 2017
quotequote all
Lesgrandepotato said:
Thats either toppy or a very big building? for reference we have just bought 29 Timber and Aluminium windows and doors, triple glazed for 17k and 2500sqft of UFH for circa 4k.

You can either itemise to the letter or be on it everyday working costs and spec, given your concerns so far I think you probably want to be more at the locked down and dusted contract end of the spectrum. Its down to you and how you can work with the trades to achieve what you want done.
It is an eight bed property, and through balconies on three levels there are eleven sliding and bi-fold doors, and twenty windows involved.Three national companies have all quoted about the same price bracket.

I have met several builders, being put off by the eager and we can start tomorrow type, to the one small builder I have found, that i believe i can work with.

Back in 1998 when I had my present home built, three fixed quotes were obtained, but I am not certain that fixed quotes can be obtained on a refurbishment.

Last thing i want is an architect and his builder on site taking control of the project and the price.


Wings

Original Poster:

5,810 posts

214 months

Wednesday 26th April 2017
quotequote all
48Valves said:
Architects are difficult to deal with at the best of times. If they are like this now, just think how difficult they will be to deal with when there are problems during the build.

I would walk and find another Architect if I were you.
My thoughts entirely, but wonder if another architect would want to take on another architect's plans.

Lesgrandepotato

371 posts

98 months

Wednesday 26th April 2017
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Wings said:
Back in 1998 when I had my present home built, three fixed quotes were obtained, but I am not certain that fixed quotes can be obtained on a refurbishment.
Yep, spot on there, the way we've done it is to get a QS to estimate the work from the building plans (smaller house, but we've given it some stick, we kept three walls and the roof and drove a digger through the rest... then we are working on T&M with the trades to get it built.

No-one wants the risk on a major renovation as they don't know what they'll find so its either very highly priced... or you need to take it on with a T&M deal.

I'd talk to the structural engineer and see who he recommends to get the BR drawings sorted out.

Good luck!

sleepezy

1,779 posts

233 months

Wednesday 26th April 2017
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Coming back to you on a couple of your points:

We swapped architects during the design, fell out with the first after they decided to change (I.e. up) their fee structure following the planning so got a second to do the detail design work. 1st architect wanted £2k just to send across the electronic design docs to the second. Unfortunately for them they had already sent them to us earlier in the process so we found them after some digging and sent across. Swapping architects was an expensive lesson but once I'd lost faith in the 1st there was no going back.

We asked for (and got) fixed quotes for refurb work. They did vary wildly (very roughly double from min to max). We ended up going with a builder of a size that we thought had the capacity to complete the job but where it would be their main project. Similar in size to yours, took about a year. They did find some hidden nasty but to be fair took it on the chin (mainly, see below)

We were 1st time refurbers doing up our own house (so not commercial) which was similar in size to the one your proposing. We had a lever arch file build bible with everything specified from the outset, mainly as we both work so needed to make the decisions at our pace before any thing started not on the fly, as we may not have been there. The builder did refuse to include a cost for removing the garage roof as they couldn't be sure of what they'd find. When it came to it, they quoted a nuts price, did it myself in 3 days with the help of 9 year old daughter, but that was the only time they tried it on.

Wings

Original Poster:

5,810 posts

214 months

Thursday 27th April 2017
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Thank you Lesgrandepotato and sleepezy for both your replies, although I am 150 miles away from the holiday property, through driving around the local area and other searches, I have found a local builder that I believe I can work with.

Whilst I might not obtain a fixed price quote from the builder, I believe I might obtain a reasonable near estimate of building costs.

How did either of you obtain estimates, once obtained did you enter into a legal contract with the builder, and how flexible were either you and the builder on increasing costs, works etc., once the works had started.

SAB888

3,231 posts

206 months

Thursday 27th April 2017
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To get a fairly accurate price you would need a detailed set of drawings and specification in order that contractors can price for exactly what you want. You will also be able to monitor works on site to make sure you are getting what you wanted and what was specified. For example, if you want Comar aluminium windows of a particular specification, unless it's detailed, you could very well end up with windows of an inferior specification. An accurate price is determined by detailed specifications and measurements. It's wise to allow a Contingency sum of about 10% of the cost of the works for anything unforeseen.

Lesgrandepotato

371 posts

98 months

Friday 28th April 2017
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Hi Wings,

We engaged a QS to estimate from the plans, found a builder we could work with and we work month to month. No contracts just a handshake.

Its how the local builders in our area prefer to operate. I'm on site twice a week to discuss any issues minor variations.

We have a relaxed timeframe - its the classic project management challenge

Cost
Quality
Time

Pick any two to control...

sleepezy

1,779 posts

233 months

Friday 28th April 2017
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This was our 'Build Bible':




It specified everything, down to the different types of screws to use. The builders did not increase their price at all on the fixed element - in fact they even stuck to the original prices for all of the 'optional' items we subsequently put in when we could afford them (ie fitting out the ensuite bathroom).

The only things that were changed and had a cost impact were where we knowingly up-specced.

So, we spent a fair bit on architects fees to mitigate the risk of the builder having the opportunity to have us over the proverbial barrel I guess. I am sure there are some PH Gods who would think we were made spending so much on professional fees but this was our 1st refurb, it was our home, we wanted it to be right and we'd have lost more in income pretty quickly if we'd have had to give up working days to sort out any mess. Our architect was involved in the build, mainly helping out with detailed queries and issuing progress certificates.

We also tried to be fair with the builder - eg they proposed an improved lead flashing around the windows - we declined on cost but they did it anyway (at no cost to us) as they weren't happy with a concrete surround. Despite us not being asked, we told them to bill us for 50% of the cost as it seemed fair (and did look better, and by then we could afford it).

We entered into a JCT contract with the builder, albeit the simplest form and without any damages for being late.