NIP for no seatbelt!

[Jonno02]

Any passenger that doesn't belt up in my car, will be asked to do so, or asked to walk.

[cmaguire]

Jonno02 said:

Any passenger that doesn't belt up in my car, will be asked to do so, or asked to walk.

Your car, your rules.

Do you also tell them they're a cretin when asking them to belt up?

[TwigtheWonderkid]

cmaguire said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

cmaguire said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

cmaguire said:

It's trivial, the driver broke a minor law and will pay a fine. If I met the driver it wouldn't make any difference to my opinion of him,

Good job you're not a fleet manager then. If you were, you'd learn to recognise trends, and you could see from your own claims data the link between a general disregard for safety, attitude to risk, the number of accidents, and the effect on the bottom line a company profitability.

If you didn't spot those trends, they'd be sacking you before "no seatbelt" man.

I recognise plenty of trends and most of them are pointless and inconvenient.

I quit my company job 8 years ago and set up on my own. Avoiding having to deal with all the crap that working for and with other people entails is a relief of epic proportions. The amount of time, money and manpower devoted by these companies to dealing with things that either don't need dealing with in the first place or could be resolved in 5 minutes by two 5 year olds with a pack of crayons is staggering, and virtually all of it reduces productivity.

On the thread about the trailer wheel coming off, I made a comment about people making sweeping statements on stuff they know nothing about, and thus making themselves look like idiots. Then I click on this threat and whaddya know............

Caricatures:

Old school manager - a bit like Geoffrey Boycott
Current manager - a lot like Tony Blair

I quite like Boycott. Working for him would likely have its amusing moments. I could work for him. He'd back his workers.
Tony Blair? Couldn't believe anything I heard if his lips were moving at the same time. Devious, arse-covering toad. Looking after number 1 is his prime directive. Will pretend to back his workers until arse-licking his superiors makes that untenable.


Do you have any fleet manager vacancies?

Based on your posts on this thread, I wouldn't apply if I were you. I'm not sure you'll get very far.

What is true is that being a fleet manager requires a certain mindset. You can be taught much of it, but some of it is instinct. l describe it best by saying an optimist thinks the glass is half full, a pessimist thinks it's half empty, and a fleet manager thinks we're wasting money running a glass twice as big as we need.

[cheesesliceking]

This thread delivers!

Man breaks law by not wearing seatbelt.

Man gets noticed by another man who is paid to uphold the law.

First mans boss is confusingly surprised by this.

Argument on internet about everything including grammar, death, children, Vietnam and old cars ensuses.

This is a amazing.

Some of you are hilarious.

[cmaguire]

Thank you.

[MorganP104]

Whilst we've taken a break from hitting each other with our keyboards for a moment, I thought a bit of light relief would be in order.

Many moons ago, whilst holidaying in Cyprus, I saw a number of men wearing t-shirts with a single black diagonal stripe on the front. The first couple of times I saw these shirts, I put it down to fashion, or maybe a local football team's colours.

Then I saw a few chaps driving work vans in these shirts. And it clicked. The truth, that is, not their seatbelt buckles.



Picture nicked from the internet, not taken by me in Cyprus... As if it ever rains there!

[TwigtheWonderkid]

MorganP104 said:

Whilst we've taken a break from hitting each other with our keyboards for a moment, I thought a bit of light relief would be in order.

Many moons ago, whilst holidaying in Cyprus, I saw a number of men wearing t-shirts with a single black diagonal stripe on the front. The first couple of times I saw these shirts, I put it down to fashion, or maybe a local football team's colours.

Then I saw a few chaps driving work vans in these shirts. And it clicked. The truth, that is, not their seatbelt buckles.



Picture nicked from the internet, not taken by me in Cyprus... As if it ever rains there!

The stripe would have to go the other way for the UK market.

[vonhosen]

And for Cyrpus too.

[jith]

vonhosen said:

And for Cyrpus too.

Where's Cyrpus?

J

[CoolHands]

I would still like to know what authority a speed camera operator (they're not coppers remember) has to be able to pinch someone for not wearing a seatbelt. Can I go out, take photos of law breaking drivers and send out NIPs?

[vonhosen]

CoolHands said:

I would still like to know what authority a speed camera operator (they're not coppers remember) has to be able to pinch someone for not wearing a seatbelt. Can I go out, take photos of law breaking drivers and send out NIPs?

They don't pinch someone.
They observe, they record, they report & then the Police processing department decide what to do with it.
Much the same way a store detective can observe, record & report before the Police decide what to do with it.

You can observe, record & report to the Police law breaking drivers & they'll decide what to do with it.
Difference being they are employed to do it.

[elanfan]

vonhosen said:

CoolHands said:

I would still like to know what authority a speed camera operator (they're not coppers remember) has to be able to pinch someone for not wearing a seatbelt. Can I go out, take photos of law breaking drivers and send out NIPs?

They don't pinch someone.
They observe, they record, they report & then the Police processing department decide what to do with it.
Much the same way a store detective can observe, record & report before the Police decide what to do with it.

You can observe, record & report to the Police law breaking drivers & they'll decide what to do with it.
Difference being they are employed to do it.

I was going to ignore the crap on this thread and ask a similar question. I don't know what the correct or exact phrase is but I believe cameras had to be approved for certain uses (like Gatsos only photographing from the rear etc). Have these speed cameras been approved for use as seatbelt enforcement cameras.bir not surely he prosecution is invalid??

[elanfan]

maguire - I had a colleague exactly like you. He'd do up his seatbelt and tuck it down the back of his seat to prevent the warning sounder going off. He was supposedly an intelligent chap being an insurance company surveyor, he reckoned he could brace himself in the event of an accident by locking his elbows etc.

He then came with us on Fleet surveying course where we had weeks of training and saw the real life consequences of some accidents. Even had he been able to brace there were chances that arms would be pushed out through the back of his shoulders or his thighs would get pushed through his arse. Much to our surprise he started wearing his belt after that course.

As to your H&S views you are sadly deluded. If you are held responsible for the death of one of your employees through your negligence, poor practices and ignorance of your responsibilities. You WILL be charged under Corporate Manslaughter law and you WILL go to jail - potentially for quite a long time. There are severe punishment fines and jail sentances for injuries too and yes a company car or van is a workplace so you can be responsible for injuries/death whilst being used by an employee. You Sir are a clown and you'd deserve the punishment too, the vast majority of decent employers no longer hold Victorian values.

Edited by elanfan on Wednesday 31st May 02:46

[Fast and Spurious]

Sensible ending to an entertaining thread.

[JNW1]

elanfan said:

I was going to ignore the crap on this thread and ask a similar question. I don't know what the correct or exact phrase is but I believe cameras had to be approved for certain uses (like Gatsos only photographing from the rear etc). Have these speed cameras been approved for use as seatbelt enforcement cameras.bir not surely he prosecution is invalid??

These cameras are designated as Safety rather than Speed Cameras and I think evidence gained from them can be used to facilitate a prosecution of any motoring offence and not just speeding (including not wearing a seatbelt, using a hands-held mobile, etc).

[zeDuffMan]

Late to the party but can't believe what I'm reading here. I'm guessing it won't be featured on PHs 'thread of the day' feature any time soon...

[Pip1968]

elanfan said:

maguire - I had a colleague exactly like you. He'd do up his seatbelt and tuck it down the back of his seat to prevent the warning sounder going off. He was supposedly an intelligent chap being an insurance company surveyor, he reckoned he could brace himself in the event of an accident by locking his elbows etc.

He then came with us on Fleet surveying course where we had weeks of training and saw the real life consequences of some accidents. Even had he been able to brace there were chances that arms would be pushed out through the back of his shoulders or his thighs would get pushed through his arse. Much to our surprise he started wearing his belt after that course.

As to your H&S views you are sadly deluded. If you are held responsible for the death of one of your employees through your negligence, poor practices and ignorance of your responsibilities. You WILL be charged under Corporate Manslaughter law and you WILL go to jail - potentially for quite a long time. There are severe punishment fines and jail sentances for injuries too and yes a company car or van is a workplace so you can be responsible for injuries/death whilst being used by an employee. You Sir are a clown and you'd deserve the punishment too, the vast majority of decent employers no longer hold Victorian values.

Edited by elanfan on Wednesday 31st May 02:46

How likely is this though. I know that HSE and common sense frequently clash so at what point does a driver become responsible for his own actions??? Is it just me as a lover of danger that thinks in this situation a fleet manager or company boss being taken to court for someone else breaking the law is stupid, ridiculous and not really punishing the right person.

Surely you could then, knowing you were going to be sacked for some other reason (ie scaling down) could crash and not wear your seat belt and claim lots of money from your company. I know it sounds far fetched but there are people like that out there.

As a fleet manager/boss if you are providing a van with seatbelts, it is likely also in the rule book aside from the law and the van is safe WHY is (or may) the onus being pushed onto the management (remember we are talikng about this case)???????

Would he also be held responsible for a poor over take, speeding (driver has not been asked to get back or go anywhere quickley), jumping a red light, parking on a double yellow line, chucking rubbish from the van???

Are some keyboard warriers here just overplaying the whole HSE thing to make out the OP is a "cretin" or is he going to prison with a hefty fine because two young lads have been caught not wearing their seat belt - ????

Edited to add and what about if a non seat belt wearing acident followed


Pip

Edited by Pip1968 on Wednesday 31st May 07:38

Edited by Pip1968 on Wednesday 31st May 07:39

[xjay1337]

Well this thread is very , very boring.

[oyster]

cmaguire said:

Helicopter123 said:

What sort of an idiot drives a car without wearing a seat-belt?

How many of your relatives (parents, grandparents, uncles etc) are idiots then?
Or did their former idiocy cease when the seatbelt law came in?

It's a law of minor significance, the NHS patches up people that abuse their bodies with tobacco and alcohol.
If that continues then I've no problem with my taxes paying to patch up someone that doesn't wear a seatbelt.

And the bigger idiots in those groups are not those without seatbelts.

Anyone who thinks the drawbacks of wearing a seatbelt (proven to be minimal) outweigh the benefit of wearing them (proven to be significant) is an idiot.

Anyone who breaks a law that so clearly saves lives for no cost in liberty, time or money is also an idiot.

As for your NHS comment - presumably you're ok with the emergency services having to clear up the mess of people who haven't worn a seat belt? Dealing with a lung cancer victim is a lot less traumatising.
And are you ok with the fact that someone innocently involved in a collision with a non-seatbelt wearer is more likely to live with the knowledge they were involved in a fatal accident?

I've found a 3rd type of idiot - the ones who defend those not wearing seatbelts.

[oyster]

Nigel Worc's said:

Trabi601 said:

Don't you have policies covering company vehicles?

We have - always wear your seatbelt, no speeding, zero tolerance on alcohol / drugs and no use of phones (even on hands free).

Any breach of these rules is straight to disciplinary - almost always ending in dismissal.

I've driven many company vehicles back in the days when I was an employee.

Try to enforce that crap on me and you'd be looking for another engineer.

I wear a seatbelt because I choose to, I don't drink drive because I choose to, I do use my phone hands free because it is legal to do so.

I was employed to repair and/or write software on/ for control circuits on company supplied machinery.

As long as I do that to a satisfactory standard you can shove any PC crap.

I can't abide any of that bks.

How infantile.

If your employer provides you with a vehicle to get to and from places of work then that period of travel IS part of your work. Ensuring you do all you can not to kill yourself driving to a work site is as sensible as doing all they can to prevent you killing yourself when at the sites.

It's not PC, it common bloody sense.