Options for forcing write off with Insurance Company
Discussion
I am gutted for you.
I recently went through something similar, no where near as as bad, but similar. My 6 month old (brand new) car had the front end hit in a car park. Needed a new bumper, bonnet and a few fixings. Long story short after 3 bodged repairs I ended up with poorly repaired car and a £6k payout - I traded the car in for a new one, on the day of the payout I put the deposit down and was out of mine and in the new car 2 days later with £2k in my back pocket.
There is NO WAY they will be able to return the car to the same standard which they are legally obliged to do. Warranty for one, quality of work is impossible to be as fresh as a 1 year old cherished car. The car is worth less, you need reimbursing - it's that simple.
My angle would be for them to repair the car - it'll take a few attempts (trust me), get a quote from 3-4 dealers for your trade in value vs the same car without damage - Now and once fully repaired. Use the average and claim the difference.
Start the ball rolling now and get costs. Record EVERYTHING. Every phone call, every e-mail, every minute and start a spreadsheet now and back date to day 1. You are legally allowed £17 an hour for your time, or part of. Charge for phone call minutes, petrol, mileage. The lot. My costs after 6 months were into the thousands and were deemed reasonable. I mean quote for every single second and penny - Take what you'll feel is the piss, but legal; then you can negotiate a lower value to suit your morals which will keep you soul healthy and their wallet happier (if you have a legally acceptable £10k to claim but you'll take £6k to go away they'll snap your hand off).
Between the car value difference and your costs, you'll have enough to trade the car in, pay any negative equity and if lucky, have some to reimburse your time and costs. Trade for a different marque as the damage won't be on their systems and they only care about write off's, Not repairs - You might get a better value than what VAG offer, making the cost effectiveness even better.
Basically don't let them take the piss, be polite but firm with them, ask for more than you'll need but no more than you're due so you can negotiate to where you actually need to be.
I'm happy for a chat over the phone if you want to PM me and i'll go into the detail.
I recently went through something similar, no where near as as bad, but similar. My 6 month old (brand new) car had the front end hit in a car park. Needed a new bumper, bonnet and a few fixings. Long story short after 3 bodged repairs I ended up with poorly repaired car and a £6k payout - I traded the car in for a new one, on the day of the payout I put the deposit down and was out of mine and in the new car 2 days later with £2k in my back pocket.
There is NO WAY they will be able to return the car to the same standard which they are legally obliged to do. Warranty for one, quality of work is impossible to be as fresh as a 1 year old cherished car. The car is worth less, you need reimbursing - it's that simple.
My angle would be for them to repair the car - it'll take a few attempts (trust me), get a quote from 3-4 dealers for your trade in value vs the same car without damage - Now and once fully repaired. Use the average and claim the difference.
Start the ball rolling now and get costs. Record EVERYTHING. Every phone call, every e-mail, every minute and start a spreadsheet now and back date to day 1. You are legally allowed £17 an hour for your time, or part of. Charge for phone call minutes, petrol, mileage. The lot. My costs after 6 months were into the thousands and were deemed reasonable. I mean quote for every single second and penny - Take what you'll feel is the piss, but legal; then you can negotiate a lower value to suit your morals which will keep you soul healthy and their wallet happier (if you have a legally acceptable £10k to claim but you'll take £6k to go away they'll snap your hand off).
Between the car value difference and your costs, you'll have enough to trade the car in, pay any negative equity and if lucky, have some to reimburse your time and costs. Trade for a different marque as the damage won't be on their systems and they only care about write off's, Not repairs - You might get a better value than what VAG offer, making the cost effectiveness even better.
Basically don't let them take the piss, be polite but firm with them, ask for more than you'll need but no more than you're due so you can negotiate to where you actually need to be.
I'm happy for a chat over the phone if you want to PM me and i'll go into the detail.
tankplanker said:
mgv8 said:
Do you have legal cover with your insurance? Depending on cover, this can be used to fight your case with the insurance. We have done this with the AA who wanted to re-body a car that there own advice line advanced us not to touch.
I have legal cover, how do I set their legal department on themselves?Do you have a hire car that they are paying for? This will ramp up the costs and might aid your case for a settlement. They are meant to leave you in the same position after a claim, TP warranty won't provide the same cover, you will lose all VW goodwill where they may repair stuff even though it is technically not covered by their warranty. You need to get anniesdad involved!
elanfan said:
You can't that will be excluded!
Do you have a hire car that they are paying for? This will ramp up the costs and might aid your case for a settlement. They are meant to leave you in the same position after a claim, TP warranty won't provide the same cover, you will lose all VW goodwill where they may repair stuff even though it is technically not covered by their warranty. You need to get anniesdad involved!
You said that previously at 12:04? Why do you think we have to read it again? Do you have a hire car that they are paying for? This will ramp up the costs and might aid your case for a settlement. They are meant to leave you in the same position after a claim, TP warranty won't provide the same cover, you will lose all VW goodwill where they may repair stuff even though it is technically not covered by their warranty. You need to get anniesdad involved!
To the OP:
It's on a PCP? Why then, all the hand-wringing and gnashing of teeth about resale value, etc? Just hand it back, either at the end of the agreement, or once the 50% (of total payments) mark has passed. Read your agreement, get the car fixed, then hand it back at the 50% mark.
Exactly how old was the car? A lot of policies have new car replacement in the first year only where sometimes the repair/value ratio is lower for replacement.
Whose doing the proposed repairs? If it's not at VW and your policy doesn't tie you into using the insurers garage, then tell them you want VW to do it. This should ensure the estimate for repairs increases significantly and may tip the balance.
Last approach, tell the insurance company very clearly you want you car to be prefect, tell them you will want a VW inspection after the work is complete, keep pushing the warranty angle, biasically make it clear you are going to be pain in back side unless they write off.. might work!
Btw legal cover will not enable you to take action against your own insurer.
Whose doing the proposed repairs? If it's not at VW and your policy doesn't tie you into using the insurers garage, then tell them you want VW to do it. This should ensure the estimate for repairs increases significantly and may tip the balance.
Last approach, tell the insurance company very clearly you want you car to be prefect, tell them you will want a VW inspection after the work is complete, keep pushing the warranty angle, biasically make it clear you are going to be pain in back side unless they write off.. might work!
Btw legal cover will not enable you to take action against your own insurer.
tankplanker said:
It is on PCP.
Then it's straightforward. Future value isn't your problem.Get the insurance and finance people to agree between themselves that any future penalty arising from the loss of warranty will be covered under the claim, then get the PCP swapped to a different car as soon as it comes back to you.
This sounds like a s
t situation, and I feel for you.
From a non-expert point of view, the 'liability' issue is the way to go... Once they start being asked to accept liability for failure/future loss my thought is that they will start backpedalling quickly.
I definitely wouldn't want the bloody thing back, shame they didn't torch it!
t situation, and I feel for you.From a non-expert point of view, the 'liability' issue is the way to go... Once they start being asked to accept liability for failure/future loss my thought is that they will start backpedalling quickly.
I definitely wouldn't want the bloody thing back, shame they didn't torch it!
Thanks for the advice everyone.
I'm reasonably comfortable that I can just dump the car on VW Finance when I hit the 50% mark, which should be mid to late next year if my Maths is right, I didn't want to do that as I would have had some equity in the car and handing it back writes that off, and I'm stuck with the car till that point when I really do not trust the car on any level now.
I hadn't bothered the hire car from the Insurance firm as it was only a basic level Golf they were offering, as I have another three cars I can use I couldn't see myself using it and it would just get in the way on the drive. I only had the hire car option on my policy in case I am on holiday and need a replacement there and then. I realise this is a mistake now and I'm pushing for a more expensive hire car replacement. Can I charge them back for using one of my other cars as I didn't take the hire car?
I'm reasonably comfortable that I can just dump the car on VW Finance when I hit the 50% mark, which should be mid to late next year if my Maths is right, I didn't want to do that as I would have had some equity in the car and handing it back writes that off, and I'm stuck with the car till that point when I really do not trust the car on any level now.
I hadn't bothered the hire car from the Insurance firm as it was only a basic level Golf they were offering, as I have another three cars I can use I couldn't see myself using it and it would just get in the way on the drive. I only had the hire car option on my policy in case I am on holiday and need a replacement there and then. I realise this is a mistake now and I'm pushing for a more expensive hire car replacement. Can I charge them back for using one of my other cars as I didn't take the hire car?
tankplanker said:
Thanks for the advice everyone.
I'm reasonably comfortable that I can just dump the car on VW Finance when I hit the 50% mark, which should be mid to late next year if my Maths is right, I didn't want to do that as I would have had some equity in the car and handing it back writes that off, and I'm stuck with the car till that point when I really do not trust the car on any level now.
I hadn't bothered the hire car from the Insurance firm as it was only a basic level Golf they were offering, as I have another three cars I can use I couldn't see myself using it and it would just get in the way on the drive. I only had the hire car option on my policy in case I am on holiday and need a replacement there and then. I realise this is a mistake now and I'm pushing for a more expensive hire car replacement. Can I charge them back for using one of my other cars as I didn't take the hire car?
I have no experience of claiming and requiring a hire car however, seeing as you already have by your own admission 3 other cars you could use I would be careful in trying to obtain a hire car at all as methinks you would have some difficulty justifying it if it went to court. I'm sure vastly more knowledgeable people will be along to comment shortly though and provide guidance.I'm reasonably comfortable that I can just dump the car on VW Finance when I hit the 50% mark, which should be mid to late next year if my Maths is right, I didn't want to do that as I would have had some equity in the car and handing it back writes that off, and I'm stuck with the car till that point when I really do not trust the car on any level now.
I hadn't bothered the hire car from the Insurance firm as it was only a basic level Golf they were offering, as I have another three cars I can use I couldn't see myself using it and it would just get in the way on the drive. I only had the hire car option on my policy in case I am on holiday and need a replacement there and then. I realise this is a mistake now and I'm pushing for a more expensive hire car replacement. Can I charge them back for using one of my other cars as I didn't take the hire car?
Nemo Sum said:
tankplanker said:
Thanks for the advice everyone.
I'm reasonably comfortable that I can just dump the car on VW Finance when I hit the 50% mark, which should be mid to late next year if my Maths is right, I didn't want to do that as I would have had some equity in the car and handing it back writes that off, and I'm stuck with the car till that point when I really do not trust the car on any level now.
I hadn't bothered the hire car from the Insurance firm as it was only a basic level Golf they were offering, as I have another three cars I can use I couldn't see myself using it and it would just get in the way on the drive. I only had the hire car option on my policy in case I am on holiday and need a replacement there and then. I realise this is a mistake now and I'm pushing for a more expensive hire car replacement. Can I charge them back for using one of my other cars as I didn't take the hire car?
I have no experience of claiming and requiring a hire car however, seeing as you already have by your own admission 3 other cars you could use I would be careful in trying to obtain a hire car at all as methinks you would have some difficulty justifying it if it went to court. I'm sure vastly more knowledgeable people will be along to comment shortly though and provide guidance.I'm reasonably comfortable that I can just dump the car on VW Finance when I hit the 50% mark, which should be mid to late next year if my Maths is right, I didn't want to do that as I would have had some equity in the car and handing it back writes that off, and I'm stuck with the car till that point when I really do not trust the car on any level now.
I hadn't bothered the hire car from the Insurance firm as it was only a basic level Golf they were offering, as I have another three cars I can use I couldn't see myself using it and it would just get in the way on the drive. I only had the hire car option on my policy in case I am on holiday and need a replacement there and then. I realise this is a mistake now and I'm pushing for a more expensive hire car replacement. Can I charge them back for using one of my other cars as I didn't take the hire car?
Rule 1 - take all steps to mitigate losses.
TooMany2cvs said:
Then it's straightforward. Future value isn't your problem.
Get the insurance and finance people to agree between themselves that any future penalty arising from the loss of warranty will be covered under the claim, then get the PCP swapped to a different car as soon as it comes back to you.
Of course it's his problem as it's still a Purchase agreement.Get the insurance and finance people to agree between themselves that any future penalty arising from the loss of warranty will be covered under the claim, then get the PCP swapped to a different car as soon as it comes back to you.
The GFV will be set at below the cars realistic value at the end of the term, so chucking the car back at the end of 24/36mths could still render the O/P substantially out of pocket as on a Golf R i'd hazard a guess the GFV will be £3K below the cars value so the O/P's missing out on that. Also if he hands in back in p1ss poor condition the Funder may well be wanting some cash.
I can't imagine VW set their GFV's above the cars expected value, but if they do then ignore my comment above.
Nemo Sum said:
I have no experience of claiming and requiring a hire car however, seeing as you already have by your own admission 3 other cars you could use I would be careful in trying to obtain a hire car at all as methinks you would have some difficulty justifying it if it went to court. I'm sure vastly more knowledgeable people will be along to comment shortly though and provide guidance.
This only relevant when using credit hire to be paid for by an at fault insurer. As the OPs insurers will be paying for it all they can do what they like, hire him a 911, send him on a 2 week holiday......!
nikaiyo2 said:
Are you using the insurers approved repair center? If so can you ask for VW to do all the work that would ramp the cost up a bit.
Not quite, if the over inflate the price the insurer can pay the PH reasonable costs for repair.Can't force an insurer to pay more than is reasonable.
OP IMO is going to struggle to force an insurer to write off a car not even the ombudsman will support that at best they may recommend a monetary compensation in lieu but unlikely as the insurer will already be offering gurantees on the work.
Remember the manufacturer can't decline warranty work on a part if it hasn't been touched or is related to the work carried out by the insurance company or other repairers.
Nemo Sum said:
tankplanker said:
Thanks for the advice everyone.
I'm reasonably comfortable that I can just dump the car on VW Finance when I hit the 50% mark, which should be mid to late next year if my Maths is right, I didn't want to do that as I would have had some equity in the car and handing it back writes that off, and I'm stuck with the car till that point when I really do not trust the car on any level now.
I hadn't bothered the hire car from the Insurance firm as it was only a basic level Golf they were offering, as I have another three cars I can use I couldn't see myself using it and it would just get in the way on the drive. I only had the hire car option on my policy in case I am on holiday and need a replacement there and then. I realise this is a mistake now and I'm pushing for a more expensive hire car replacement. Can I charge them back for using one of my other cars as I didn't take the hire car?
I have no experience of claiming and requiring a hire car however, seeing as you already have by your own admission 3 other cars you could use I would be careful in trying to obtain a hire car at all as methinks you would have some difficulty justifying it if it went to court. I'm sure vastly more knowledgeable people will be along to comment shortly though and provide guidance.I'm reasonably comfortable that I can just dump the car on VW Finance when I hit the 50% mark, which should be mid to late next year if my Maths is right, I didn't want to do that as I would have had some equity in the car and handing it back writes that off, and I'm stuck with the car till that point when I really do not trust the car on any level now.
I hadn't bothered the hire car from the Insurance firm as it was only a basic level Golf they were offering, as I have another three cars I can use I couldn't see myself using it and it would just get in the way on the drive. I only had the hire car option on my policy in case I am on holiday and need a replacement there and then. I realise this is a mistake now and I'm pushing for a more expensive hire car replacement. Can I charge them back for using one of my other cars as I didn't take the hire car?
Bike 1. Was currently advertised for sale (I could prove that) and could go at any time.
Bike 2. In pieces in mid-restoration (although I keep it insured)
Bike 3. A 1960 classic which is totally unsuitable for commuting, and a theft risk if left parked up.
Bike 4. An enduro bike. Also totally unsuitable for commuting, and a theft risk if left parked up.
Bike 5. Another classic bike, see above.
So, only go for the hire car if you can work a justification as above.
With the GFV if you keep the car and trade it in etc I would be concerned that the GFV would not apply to a car that has had major repairs - I have a pcp deal and yes they will inspect the car to give you the GFV but I would believe they will also take into account accident repairs etc. They may have a get out wording for the GFV based upon such repairs.
Anyway that would be my concern as well as no VW warranty. Its not like its a 1.6 d ecootionblandy its a decent high performance car.
Anyway that would be my concern as well as no VW warranty. Its not like its a 1.6 d ecootionblandy its a decent high performance car.
Quick update, had seperate calls with the insurance company, VW, and the body shop. The short version is that VW will not warranty the drive train for six months but will offer full warranty after this period, I will have this in writing. I guess they are concerned there might be something wrong they missed. The insurance company is prepared to offer an all encompassing warranty for that six months and that they will fix *anything* wrong with the drive train that VW will not, this I am also getting in writing.
I am a bit annoyed that the insurance company tried to fob me off with the warranty coverage for the drive train and that I had to fight to get even this halfway house. I need to speak to VW Finance to understand how this effects the GFV/handing the car back, that is my job this afternoon.
Regarding the respray, I have agreed that an independent paint specialist will be reviewing the quality of the respray. This I am going to keep a close eye on as the car is lapiz blue and thus it will be very obvious if the paint doesn't match or is of poor quality.
Car has gone off to get the body work/paint done while we wait for the parts from VW to replace the sat nav and interior trim pieces.
I am a bit annoyed that the insurance company tried to fob me off with the warranty coverage for the drive train and that I had to fight to get even this halfway house. I need to speak to VW Finance to understand how this effects the GFV/handing the car back, that is my job this afternoon.
Regarding the respray, I have agreed that an independent paint specialist will be reviewing the quality of the respray. This I am going to keep a close eye on as the car is lapiz blue and thus it will be very obvious if the paint doesn't match or is of poor quality.
Car has gone off to get the body work/paint done while we wait for the parts from VW to replace the sat nav and interior trim pieces.
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