No Right Turn in London (Havering BC) - relevant legislation

[SonicShadow]

Hoping this is a relatively simple one...

Can someone confirm what the correct legislation is concerning a No Right Turn offence in a London Borough? I think it's London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003. The bit I'm particularly interested in is Section 6 which defines the time limits in which a LA must issue the PCN.

If I'm reading it correctly, they have 28 days to issue the PCN. The only exemption they have is if they request the details from the DVLA within 14 days of the offence, and the DVLA are late in supplying the LA the information.

In my case, the PCN was *dated* 35 days after the offence, arrived 36 days after. The LA asked the DVLA for the keepers info 28 days after the offence, and the DVLA supplied the information 3 days after that.

As far as London Tribunal are concerned this should be a straight forward win if I'm reading the correct legislation?

[Red Devil]

SonicShadow said:

The LA asked the DVLA for the keepers info 28 days after the offence, and the DVLA supplied the information 3 days after that.

The purpose of Section 6(4) is to enable the LA to still take action if the DVLA is tardy in responding to a request which has been submitted within the prescribed time frame.
If LB Havering has failed to do so it is precluded from availing itself of the 6 month rule in Section 6(6).
Accordingly Section 6(1) remains engaged and the PCN is time barred - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/...
Do you have written confirmation of the application date from the DVLA (in response to a DPA request)?

SonicShadow said:

As far as London Tribunal are concerned this should be a straight forward win if I'm reading the correct legislation?

If you can produce the evidence from the DVLA that the application was outwith Section 6(4), then
If the LA has any sense it should fold before it gets that far. Have you submitted a challenge on the basis of non-compliance with the Act?

[silverfoxcc]

pepipoo.com are your friends. Lay experts and good advice

Post it up on there and see what they say

[SonicShadow]

Unfortunately due to the timing of it, I didn't have the information from the DVLA before sending my formal appeal so I appealed on the grounds of it being outside of 28 days. The LA responded saying that the DVLA were late in supplying them the relevant information and are therefore satisfied that the PCN was issued correctly. I now know that's a lie! I don't think I have another opportunity to submit an appeal to the LA now, the paperwork suggests the next step is Tribunal.

[bad company]

So what's to lose by going to the tribunal? I did and won my case.

From what I can see you 'should ' win.

[Red Devil]

SonicShadow said:

Unfortunately due to the timing of it, I didn't have the information from the DVLA before sending my formal appeal so I appealed on the grounds of it being outside of 28 days. The LA responded saying that the DVLA were late in supplying them the relevant information and are therefore satisfied that the PCN was issued correctly. I now know that's a lie! I don't think I have another opportunity to submit an appeal to the LA now, the paperwork suggests the next step is Tribunal.

I suspect whoever provided you with that reason was also unaware of the LA's failure to apply for the RK details within 14 days.
Or that they do know and are hoping you're not smart enough to have checked with the DVLA.
Many people are unaware of the relevant legislation so fail to find out whether the LA has played by the rules.
The LA is either administratively incompetent (for not bothering to check its processing) or mendacious (for concealing the fact that it knows it has cocked up).
No excuse either way.

The legislation requires a LA to provide information on how you can take it to a Tribunal - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/3482/regul...
it must give you a Notice of Appeal form - http://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/understandin...
Another thing which some LAs fail to do in the hope that you'll just roll over.

Providing the adjudicator with the documentary evidence from the DVLA of the LA's failure to comply with Section 6(4) should result in a slam dunk win per Section 6(1).
If you don't I'll donate £10 to a charity of your choice. My bet is that LA will fold their tent and not even won't even contest it.

Otoh, at this stage you have nothing to lose by writing to the LA to invite it to reconsider its rejection.
You now have evidence (subsequent to your formal representations) that there has been a procedural impropriety on its part.
IOW fold now or face having an adjudicator tell you to do so when he/she sees the evidence thereof.

Edited by Red Devil on Monday 19th June 13:29

[SonicShadow]

An LA being dishonest or incompetent... who'd have thought it!

I'll try going direct to them first, but if they take too long to respond (seeing as it took them over a month to issue a PCN and took them a long time to respond to my formal appeal) I'll have to start the tribunal process. Not done a London one before, but have been through a couple of TPT ones for council PCN's.

Thanks for the tips Red!

[bad company]

SonicShadow said:

An LA being dishonest or incompetent... who'd have thought it!

I'll try going direct to them first, but if they take too long to respond (seeing as it took them over a month to issue a PCN and took them a long time to respond to my formal appeal) I'll have to start the tribunal process. Not done a London one before, but have been through a couple of TPT ones for council PCN's.

Thanks for the tips Red!

Do let us know the result op.

[Red Devil]

SonicShadow said:

An LA being dishonest or incompetent... who'd have thought it!

I'll try going direct to them first, but if they take too long to respond (seeing as it took them over a month to issue a PCN and took them a long time to respond to my formal appeal) I'll have to start the tribunal process.

28 days beginning from the date of service of the NoR - http://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/appeals-proc...
A late appeal can be considered but only at the discretion of the adjudicator and you'll need a convincing reason why. Not worth the risk imo.

Should you need to do so, I have to confess to an error of my own. The 2007 legislation I linked to relates to parking contraventions, not moving traffic ones.
Therefore procedural impropriety is not a ground for appeal. The correct one is #5* on this list - http://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/grounds-appe...

 * served out of time

SonicShadow said:

Not done a London one before, but have been through a couple of TPT ones for council PCN's.

Exactly the same process; merely a different body which will hear it.

SonicShadow said:

Thanks for the tips Red!

You're welcome.

[SonicShadow]

No response from LA, tribunal appeal submitted. LA has til the 4th August to submit a response if they choose to.

[bad company]

Sounds good.

[SonicShadow]

LA have submitted their response, short and sweet:





Ridiculous that it had to get this far and a waste of for all involved, but there we go.

Thanks again Red for putting me on the right track with the appeal specifics!

[2Btoo]

Well done SS. LA's need to have their abuses of power pointed out. Rolling over and paying the charge is encouragement to them to continue to play their corrupt game.

Thanks for the update.

[SonicShadow]

No problem. Looks like I still have to wait til the 4th August for Tribunal to make it official, once done I'll post up the case reference as it looks like you can see it all online these days anyway.

[bad company]