Any leeway with camera van speeds?

Any leeway with camera van speeds?

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Discussion

brrapp

Original Poster:

3,701 posts

161 months

Monday 26th June 2017
quotequote all
Caught yesterday by a camera van. I was doing an indicated 38 in a 30 (its been a 60, a 50, a 40, and now a 30 limit over the last 20 years with no additional building or development in that time but that's another story) I checked my speedo against two different sat navs and 38 is between 34 and 35 in real life.
Do the camera vans give any leeway (2mph+10%)? Or is it strictly done on exact recorded speed?
In Scotland so no 'get out of jail' course option.
Definite points or not?

DaveH23

3,230 posts

169 months

Monday 26th June 2017
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Not sure at that speed but I have passed many at an indicated 80 on motorways/dual carriageways and heard nothing.


Stoofa

958 posts

167 months

Monday 26th June 2017
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The difference is that when they say "indicated 38mph" you were going 38mph - they use calibrated equipment.
The "leeway" still stands, 10% +2. So in a 30mph zone, prosecution begins at 35mph.

culpz

4,881 posts

111 months

Monday 26th June 2017
quotequote all
If you look at the new speeding fine guidelines, it does state that 1 mph over the set limit for each is technically punishable within band A. However, there has been nothing to advise that the 10% threshold has suddenly been abolished.

Unfortunately, even with any leeway, doing the speed you were doing probably wouldn't be sufficient to get away with it. However, you may get away with doing the Speed Awareness course. At worst, you may get away with band A.

You may not even have been clocked at all. Or the speed they clocked you at was lower than you thought. You can usually knock around 2/3 mph from what you see on your speedo. These Scamera Vans are really looking for big numbers and not a few mph over.

SonicShadow

2,452 posts

153 months

Monday 26th June 2017
quotequote all
culpz said:
If you look at the new speeding fine guidelines, it does state that 1 mph over the set limit for each is technically punishable within band A. However, there has been nothing to advise that the 10% threshold has suddenly been abolished.

Unfortunately, even with any leeway, doing the speed you were doing probably wouldn't be sufficient to get away with it. However, you may get away with doing the Speed Awareness course. At worst, you may get away with band A.

You may not even have been clocked at all. Or the speed they clocked you at was lower than you thought. You can usually knock around 2/3 mph from what you see on your speedo. These Scamera Vans are really looking for big numbers and not a few mph over.
The only way they'll get a band A fine is if they take it to court and lose. Banded fines can only be issued by a court.

Worst case is an FPN (3 points + £100 fine), unless the OP decides to take it to court.

Realistic outcome - nothing (lucky) or SAC assuming they are offered by that police force.

SS2.

14,455 posts

237 months

Monday 26th June 2017
quotequote all
culpz said:
These Scamera Vans are really looking for big numbers and not a few mph over.
What do you base that on ?

covboy

2,573 posts

173 months

Monday 26th June 2017
quotequote all
culpz said:
These Scamera Vans are really looking for big numbers and not a few mph over.
You mean like 37mph in a 30 limit ? mad

Solocle

3,247 posts

83 months

Monday 26th June 2017
quotequote all
I may have gone past one a few days ago at about 73 in a 70 - A303, the inside lane was slowing down below 70, so I pulled out and gave the throttle a short squeeze to expediate overtaking! I'm not that worried, there was enough in the inner lane to shield me - as soon as I saw it, I was right down to 70.
These are all GPS.

culpz

4,881 posts

111 months

Monday 26th June 2017
quotequote all
SS2. said:
What do you base that on ?
The 10% threshold/leeway for a start. Bigger number=more money.

culpz

4,881 posts

111 months

Monday 26th June 2017
quotequote all
covboy said:
You mean like 37mph in a 30 limit ? mad
I wouldn't class 7mph over the limit just a a few mph though. That probably means you were probably doing close to 40 on your speedo.

It's annoying all the same. Did you get points or SAC?

covboy

2,573 posts

173 months

Monday 26th June 2017
quotequote all
culpz said:
covboy said:
You mean like 37mph in a 30 limit ? mad
I wouldn't class 7mph over the limit just a a few mph though. That probably means you were probably doing close to 40 on your speedo.

It's annoying all the same. Did you get points or SAC?
SAC - Define "few" or "just a few" relative to speed limits !

brrapp

Original Poster:

3,701 posts

161 months

Monday 26th June 2017
quotequote all
Just to clarify, the 'indicated' speed of 38 was on my speedo. I checked the accuracy of my speedo against sat nav later and found 38 to be 34.5 ish. No idea yet what was showing on their machinery.

culpz

4,881 posts

111 months

Monday 26th June 2017
quotequote all
covboy said:
culpz said:
covboy said:
You mean like 37mph in a 30 limit ? mad
I wouldn't class 7mph over the limit just a a few mph though. That probably means you were probably doing close to 40 on your speedo.

It's annoying all the same. Did you get points or SAC?
SAC - Define "few" or "just a few" relative to speed limits !
I define a few within it's intended quantity i.e. a small number of.

Basing that within the 10% threshold, of a 30 mph zone, that would be 33 mph. So, basically, the amount you'd get let off by.

Any more than that, despite how minute it may be, is punishable.

Edited by culpz on Monday 26th June 13:18

donkmeister

7,998 posts

99 months

Monday 26th June 2017
quotequote all
Cruise control or speed limiter is ideal for preventing this sort of worry (road and traffic permitting).

Of course never mention it on PH or the "all driving aids should be banned apart from the ones I like" contingent will appear.

JNW1

7,711 posts

193 months

Monday 26th June 2017
quotequote all
SS2. said:
culpz said:
These Scamera Vans are really looking for big numbers and not a few mph over.
What do you base that on ?
I don't think they're just looking for big numbers at all. If you're beyond the old 10% plus 1mph ACPO guideline you're definitely at risk of receiving a NIP and in the past people on here have posted copies of NIP's that have been issued for transgressions within those guidelines.

Therefore, I think it's pure fantasy to think you could be clocked for doing 38mph in a 30mph limit and not be prosecuted because it's not a big enough number for them to be bothered about; a far more likely outcome is a SAC if one's offered and you're eligible to attend, otherwise 3 points and a fine.

culpz

4,881 posts

111 months

Monday 26th June 2017
quotequote all
JNW1 said:
I don't think they're just looking for big numbers at all. If you're beyond the old 10% plus 1mph ACPO guideline you're definitely at risk of receiving a NIP and in the past people on here have posted copies of NIP's that have been issued for transgressions within those guidelines.

Therefore, I think it's pure fantasy to think you could be clocked for doing 38mph in a 30mph limit and not be prosecuted because it's not a big enough number for them to be bothered about; a far more likely outcome is a SAC if one's offered and you're eligible to attend, otherwise 3 points and a fine.
I see what you're saying. What i was trying to get at was if it was 1 or 2 mph over the threshold, i'm not sure if they'd bother. I've seen various posts and news articles about how inaccurate mobile speed guns and cameras can be. Yes, they could technically issue a NIP as per going over the leeway but i'm not sure if they actually do.

I seem to see alot of people thinking that they'd been clocked doing similar speeds but heard nothing back. There are various factors to be taken into consideration and i was just setting up and argument for this potentially being the case.

JNW1

7,711 posts

193 months

Monday 26th June 2017
quotequote all
culpz said:
JNW1 said:
I don't think they're just looking for big numbers at all. If you're beyond the old 10% plus 1mph ACPO guideline you're definitely at risk of receiving a NIP and in the past people on here have posted copies of NIP's that have been issued for transgressions within those guidelines.

Therefore, I think it's pure fantasy to think you could be clocked for doing 38mph in a 30mph limit and not be prosecuted because it's not a big enough number for them to be bothered about; a far more likely outcome is a SAC if one's offered and you're eligible to attend, otherwise 3 points and a fine.
I see what you're saying. What i was trying to get at was if it was 1 or 2 mph over the threshold, i'm not sure if they'd bother. I've seen various posts and news articles about how inaccurate mobile speed guns and cameras can be. Yes, they could technically issue a NIP as per going over the leeway but i'm not sure if they actually do.

I seem to see alot of people thinking that they'd been clocked doing similar speeds but heard nothing back. There are various factors to be taken into consideration and i was just setting up and argument for this potentially being the case.
If by threshold you mean the speed limit then generally I think you're right, a transgression of 1 or 2mph is highly unlikely to result in a prosecution unless there are other factors to take into consideration. However, I think any speed in excess of the leeway suggested under the old ACPO guidelines will almost certainly result in a NIP and there are examples of some areas issuing NIP's even within those guidelines.

In years gone by a traffic officer may have pulled you over and just had a hard word but cameras have no such power of discretion and if you're caught doing more than their pre-determined threshold you can expect a NIP to land through your letterbox!

brrapp

Original Poster:

3,701 posts

161 months

Monday 26th June 2017
quotequote all
Can I simplify my original question?
I was probably doing pretty close to 34.5 mph.
This would have come in under the old ACPO guidelines, 30mph+10%+2mph =35mph.
Do these guidelines still apply to camera vans? If so I won't get done, if not , I will...unless there is some leeway.
In Scotland so no SAC option .

SS2.

14,455 posts

237 months

Monday 26th June 2017
quotequote all
brrapp said:
I was probably doing pretty close to 34.5 mph.
Little choice but to sit it out for a couple of weeks and see if anything unwelcome drops through the Registered Keeper's letterbox.

mko9

2,328 posts

211 months

Monday 26th June 2017
quotequote all
brrapp said:
Just to clarify, the 'indicated' speed of 38 was on my speedo. I checked the accuracy of my speedo against sat nav later and found 38 to be 34.5 ish. No idea yet what was showing on their machinery.
The geometry between you and the van will also affect their reading. If your velocity vector is not pointed directly at the van, then the reading they received will be reduced. The more offset, the greater the reduction. Your velocity vector towards the camera is your real velocity x cosine of the offset angle.