Theft of Amazon Echo - Amazon refusing to release info

Theft of Amazon Echo - Amazon refusing to release info

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romeogolf

Original Poster:

2,056 posts

118 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017
quotequote all
When we moved house a short while ago our Amazon Echo Dot went missing in the process. After unpacking all the boxes it still hadn't turned up, so we logged into our Amazon account to see if there was a "find my dot" function.

There wasn't, but it showed the dot as being de-registered from our account. We spoke to Amazon who confirmed that the dot had been removed from our account at 6 pm on the day of the move and re-registered to a new one. They wouldn't release any information about the account it had been registered to, but knowing the only people with access to our home on that day were the removal company, it was clear to us where the item had gone. Amazon 'blocked' the dot from use, meaning it was worthless to the person who had it.

For those who don't know, the Echo Dot is about the size of a roll of sellotape, so very easy to slip into a pocket.

We reported the theft to the police and yesterday an officer visited us at home to say that Amazon refused to release any information about the individual to whom the device was re-registered without a court order. As the case was not "in the public interest" the police were not taking it further. The officer went on to explain that this wasn't uncommon and there have been numerous cases of people ordering items online through Amazon using another person's account, having them delivered to another location, and getting away with it entirely because Amazon refuses to release the information.

Ultimately, the Echo Dot is a £50 piece of tech and no huge loss, but it's infuriating that some opportunistic little turd has helped themselves to it while invited into our house.


Edited by romeogolf on Wednesday 28th June 10:59

TwigtheWonderkid

43,246 posts

149 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017
quotequote all
romeogolf said:
As the case was not "in the public interest" the police were not taking it further.
How is it not in the public interest to catch a thief working for a removal firm! Won't this individual be in other people's houses every day?

OldGermanHeaps

3,801 posts

177 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017
quotequote all
So why aren't you angry with the police? If they did their job they would have all the information necessary but because it was more difficult than one phone call they gave up to go and work on something a bit easier. All amazon are asking is for proper paperwork before breaching the data protection act and opening themselves up to prosecution. Working in the cctv industry at least once a month i get officers asking me to commit illegal acts that could open me up to prosecution and when you tell them no they act like i'm the one in the wrong. If they want to ignore the law why the fk did they become police?
Is it possible your echo fell out the box and the new homeowners thought you left it for them? When i moved i left a few home automation gadgets and a stereo that was connected to the ceiling speakers as i was upgrading.

Edited by OldGermanHeaps on Wednesday 28th June 11:24

romeogolf

Original Poster:

2,056 posts

118 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017
quotequote all
OldGermanHeaps said:
So why aren't you angry with the police? If they did their job they would have all the information necessary but because it was more difficult than one phone call they gave up to go and work on something a bit easier. All amazon are asking is for proper paperwork before breaching the data protection act and opening themselves up to prosecution. Working in the cctv industry at least once a month i get officers asking me to commit illegal acts that could open me up to prosecution and when you tell them no they act like i'm the one in the wrong. If they want to ignore the law why the fk did they become police?
I forget the term used for the process, but there's a request for information form which the police send to Amazon. For many companies this is sufficient to release the information, but for larger, especially American, companies apparently they require a court order.

Durzel

12,232 posts

167 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017
quotequote all
Police resources are finite.

All of us expect the Police to drop everything to deal with our own personal issue, but the reality - as anyone should know - is that there are only so many hours in the day, only so many officers working, etc.

In an ideal World there would be enough Police to investigate every crime to the fullest extent, and enough time & CPS resources to prosecute everyone regardless of the value of the losses. In the actual World we live in, there isn't.

langtounlad

780 posts

170 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017
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I'd be approaching the removals co and demanding its return and expecting them to take the matter seriously.
Such companies rely on a good reputation for honesty and integrity and you have enough info to embarrass them on social media.
Apparently name and shame on such sites carries considerable clout.

romeogolf

Original Poster:

2,056 posts

118 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017
quotequote all
langtounlad said:
I'd be approaching the removals co and demanding its return and expecting them to take the matter seriously.
Such companies rely on a good reputation for honesty and integrity and you have enough info to embarrass them on social media.
Apparently name and shame on such sites carries considerable clout.
I have been in touch with the removals company. After reporting it to the police but before the police came back to us with the news above. The firm have denied the accusation and took a few days to reply to me. When they did so, they accused us of making a false accusation stating that they "assume the item has now been found and that the accusation that our staff stole it is incorrect."

I suggested that they told their staff there has been a reported theft of an electronic item from a customer who has contacted the police, and explained that due to the nature of the item it is easy to trace, but if it is returned the charges would be dropped in the hope that it is anonymously returned. But they have said they will not mention it to their team and will wait for the police to be in touch.

Thermobaric

725 posts

119 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017
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Have they got much of a web presence? Google reviews? Yelp? Facebook? Utterly trash them.

OldGermanHeaps

3,801 posts

177 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017
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Contact your movers insurance company?

JimbobVFR

2,679 posts

143 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017
quotequote all
Am I bring too reasonable because I can see the point made by everyone involved here.

Where was the device when you moved? Was it not packed away already? Could it have been left behind and later found?

A few years my sister was moving house and a random bloke just walked in the open front door, while the removal men were in the lorry strapping down some of her stuff, luckily my sister was in the house so he legged it sharpish.

Chances are the account that registered the Dot won't be the culprit if it was nicked anyway.

cbmotorsport

3,065 posts

117 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017
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Recently had a call from my bank saying someone had tried to use my card to buy an Amazon Prime membership, no idea how they got my card details.

I thought this a bit strange as it would be so easily traceable to the perp. Having read the OP, I can see why now.

Obviously cancelled the card and forgot about it until now.

TwistingMyMelon

6,385 posts

204 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017
quotequote all
Thing is even if the removals company didnt nick it aren't they responsible for it whilst in transit where it went missing. The fact that it was deregistered proves someone has it, rather than you lost it

I would contact removals company and ask for their official complaints procedure , if its a 2 man band, just keep complaining

The online reviews is one option to go down....

romeogolf

Original Poster:

2,056 posts

118 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017
quotequote all
OldGermanHeaps said:
Contact your movers insurance company?
As I say, it's not about the value but the principle. The insurance company might find some way to pay out £50 (unlikely) but the light-fingered fellow gets away scot-free.

JimbobVFR said:
Am I bring too reasonable because I can see the point made by everyone involved here.

Where was the device when you moved? Was it not packed away already? Could it have been left behind and later found?

A few years my sister was moving house and a random bloke just walked in the open front door, while the removal men were in the lorry strapping down some of her stuff, luckily my sister was in the house so he legged it sharpish.

Chances are the account that registered the Dot won't be the culprit if it was nicked anyway.
We moved out of a rented flat, and went back the following day to confirm we hadn't left anything behind. We took posession of our new house some weeks before 'moving in' as it was being decorated. We had two dots, one of which we took with us initially to play the radio, and the other was left at the old place. It was the one we took first which went missing and the logs on our Amazon accounts show it being used with our voices right up to the morning of the move when we used it to play the radio. The next activity was the de-registering at 6pm. That's how we'd narrowed it down to that particualar date/time of it going walkabout.

There's definitely a chance that the new 'owner' isn't the person who took it, but they might know who sold it to them if they were contacted by authorities.

MitchT

15,788 posts

208 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017
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If the person who bought it is an innocent party then hopefully they'll now be kicking up a stink too, since the device has stopped working. Maybe search online for people starting threads about their Amazon Dot stopping working!

Edited by MitchT on Wednesday 28th June 12:16

Carnage

886 posts

231 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017
quotequote all
To get the information from Amazon will require an MLAT application, as the data required is stored in the US. This process takes about a year, costs high four figures, and legally can only be applied for for an offence designated as serious under the RIPA - ie a person aged 21 or over can reasonably be expected to be sentenced to three years or more on first conviction. Hence the reason it can't be applied for. Shame the officers didn't explain a bit more but that's why.

Because it's not UK stored it can't be obtained by a Data Protection form, which is referred to above.

Sucks for the OP, but hopefully this fills in the blanks.

Thermobaric

725 posts

119 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017
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Maybe leave an Amazon review. It seems crazy they know that something is 100% yours has been stolen and they have the details of the thief but won't play ball.

langtounlad

780 posts

170 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017
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I believe that you have enough evidence to re-confront the removals company and if poor response post up your experience on social media.
Seems 'beyond reasonable doubt' that the culprit is associated with the removals co as only they had access to your new house on the day.

Ed.

2,169 posts

237 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017
quotequote all
Seems like it's in Amazon's interests that they don't assist the police, you will probably not leave them as a customer and may even replace it giving them another sale.

TwistingMyMelon

6,385 posts

204 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017
quotequote all
Carnage said:
To get the information from Amazon will require an MLAT application, as the data required is stored in the US. This process takes about a year, costs high four figures, and legally can only be applied for for an offence designated as serious under the RIPA - ie a person aged 21 or over can reasonably be expected to be sentenced to three years or more on first conviction. Hence the reason it can't be applied for. Shame the officers didn't explain a bit more but that's why.

Because it's not UK stored it can't be obtained by a Data Protection form, which is referred to above.

Sucks for the OP, but hopefully this fills in the blanks.
Handy post that , cheers for insight

Durzel

12,232 posts

167 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017
quotequote all
Thermobaric said:
Maybe leave an Amazon review. It seems crazy they know that something is 100% yours has been stolen and they have the details of the thief but won't play ball.
Do they know that though?

Amazon have been given one version of events. All they can see from their side of things is that someone, not the original purchaser of the Dot, has de-registered it and re-registered it to themselves. They have nothing besides the OP's word that the circumstances are as described. I would posit that this is no different than - for example - the OP gifting his Dot to someone, or taking payment for it informally, or in kind, and then deciding to punitively brick it because the new legitimate owner didn't pay up (or more), or something.

If Amazon just gave out personal details because - as far as they can see - a Dot has been de-registered and re-registered to someone else, that would be fraught with risks.

That's why - rightly - these sorts of things are only responded to when there is Police involvement / subpoenas etc.