Theft of Amazon Echo - Amazon refusing to release info
Discussion
Durzel said:
Do they know that though?
Amazon have been given one version of events. All they can see from their side of things is that someone, not the original purchaser of the Dot, has de-registered it and re-registered it to themselves. They have nothing besides the OP's word that the circumstances are as described. I would posit that this is no different than - for example - the OP gifting his Dot to someone, or taking payment for it informally, or in kind, and then deciding to punitively brick it because the new legitimate owner didn't pay up (or more), or something.
If Amazon just gave out personal details because - as far as they can see - a Dot has been de-registered and re-registered to someone else, that would be fraught with risks.
That's why - rightly - these sorts of things are only responded to when there is Police involvement / subpoenas etc.
Perhaps I have a higher opinion of the average person than I should have. I mean, what sort of pleb would sell one and then claim it was stolen considering how the device is integrated in your Amazon account with all your details e.t.c. That is just asking for trouble.Amazon have been given one version of events. All they can see from their side of things is that someone, not the original purchaser of the Dot, has de-registered it and re-registered it to themselves. They have nothing besides the OP's word that the circumstances are as described. I would posit that this is no different than - for example - the OP gifting his Dot to someone, or taking payment for it informally, or in kind, and then deciding to punitively brick it because the new legitimate owner didn't pay up (or more), or something.
If Amazon just gave out personal details because - as far as they can see - a Dot has been de-registered and re-registered to someone else, that would be fraught with risks.
That's why - rightly - these sorts of things are only responded to when there is Police involvement / subpoenas etc.
I'm not saying Amazon should just hand out the address of the new person that registered the device. Just help the police with their inquiries without needing some overblown legal request like they're getting authorization to launch a nuke or something.
Don't have one myself but it strikes me that Amazon ought to have a way of preventing devices being deregistered without authorisation, such as asking for some form of security (last 4 digits of card used to pay for it, the name of your car, or something?). That way they wouldn't have to deal with enquiries from the fuzz at all. Seems a bit of a schoolboy security balls-up that someone with no rightful access to the device or the account is able to make that sort of change.
As others have said, time to leave some suitable feedback about the light-fingered removals company and their unwillingness to address the situation, unfortunately it looks like you'll have to take the £50 hit.
As others have said, time to leave some suitable feedback about the light-fingered removals company and their unwillingness to address the situation, unfortunately it looks like you'll have to take the £50 hit.
spikyone said:
Don't have one myself but it strikes me that Amazon ought to have a way of preventing devices being deregistered without authorisation, such as asking for some form of security (last 4 digits of card used to pay for it, the name of your car, or something?). That way they wouldn't have to deal with enquiries from the fuzz at all. Seems a bit of a schoolboy security balls-up that someone with no rightful access to the device or the account is able to make that sort of change.
As others have said, time to leave some suitable feedback about the light-fingered removals company and their unwillingness to address the situation, unfortunately it looks like you'll have to take the £50 hit.
Yes, my other half is a software developer and was aghast at the lack of security regarding de-registering devices with Amazon. The equivalent process with an iPhone, for example, would require your password. As others have said, time to leave some suitable feedback about the light-fingered removals company and their unwillingness to address the situation, unfortunately it looks like you'll have to take the £50 hit.
My only reluctance in posting negative reviews is, quite literally, they know where we live and we also have no concrete evidence of wrong-doing by them, just a suspicion. Had the police garnered the required information from Amazon then there'd be solid evidence and a chain of process which, to us, would offer a little more peace of mind against anyone involved trying to imtimidate us etc.
mgv8 said:
Can you not get your own court order?
I don't know, can we? I wouldn't know where to start.spikyone said:
Don't have one myself but it strikes me that Amazon ought to have a way of preventing devices being deregistered without authorisation, such as asking for some form of security (last 4 digits of card used to pay for it, the name of your car, or something?). That way they wouldn't have to deal with enquiries from the fuzz at all. Seems a bit of a schoolboy security balls-up that someone with no rightful access to the device or the account is able to make that sort of change.
As others have said, time to leave some suitable feedback about the light-fingered removals company and their unwillingness to address the situation, unfortunately it looks like you'll have to take the £50 hit.
Very much so.As others have said, time to leave some suitable feedback about the light-fingered removals company and their unwillingness to address the situation, unfortunately it looks like you'll have to take the £50 hit.
I hate Apple products with a vengeance, however if I get my hands on an iPad that doesn't belong to me, I cannot factory reset that without deactivating it first and removing it from the owners account. Effectively it is useless to me.
This is the kind of security that should be in place.
Amazon are a bit lame if they're insisting on a court order as opposed to other lawful ways to disclosure data.
The police are barely able to respond to 999 calls (sometimes they are unable to) and process prisoners - the two most fundamental functions of policing, so they aren't going to be getting court orders for a £50 theft.
It's annoying and you deserve to have the matter investigated, but that's not the reality at the moment.
The police are barely able to respond to 999 calls (sometimes they are unable to) and process prisoners - the two most fundamental functions of policing, so they aren't going to be getting court orders for a £50 theft.
It's annoying and you deserve to have the matter investigated, but that's not the reality at the moment.
You let a device into your house with a live mic commented to Amazon's data centres and at the same time worry about the sloppy security protocols? Oh the irony.
If you feel strongly about it, don't buy another one, cancel the one you have and bin your prime account. I'm very happy with Apple's outrageously priced products because I'm, not the, er, product.
If you feel strongly about it, don't buy another one, cancel the one you have and bin your prime account. I'm very happy with Apple's outrageously priced products because I'm, not the, er, product.
rxe said:
You let a device into your house with a live mic commented to Amazon's data centres and at the same time worry about the sloppy security protocols? Oh the irony.
If you feel strongly about it, don't buy another one, cancel the one you have and bin your prime account. I'm very happy with Apple's outrageously priced products because I'm, not the, er, product.
Yes, absolutely. Because having devices with live mics connected to Apple's data centres is totally different.If you feel strongly about it, don't buy another one, cancel the one you have and bin your prime account. I'm very happy with Apple's outrageously priced products because I'm, not the, er, product.
rxe said:
You let a device into your house with a live mic commented to Amazon's data centres and at the same time worry about the sloppy security protocols? Oh the irony.
If you feel strongly about it, don't buy another one, cancel the one you have and bin your prime account. I'm very happy with Apple's outrageously priced products because I'm, not the, er, product.
Security of the product is different to me worrying about strangers hearing me say things like "Alexa, put on BBC Radio 2" or "Alexa, how many grams of sugar are in half a cup?"If you feel strongly about it, don't buy another one, cancel the one you have and bin your prime account. I'm very happy with Apple's outrageously priced products because I'm, not the, er, product.
CaptainSensib1e said:
Might seem a bit OTT, but might be worth thinking about approaching the press.
The DM love this sort of stuff, and the negative publicity might get Amazon to rethink their policy on this which is clearly daft and obstructive.
I once approached the press (albeit the local paper) with a story 10 years back. The level of reporting was dire, misquoting me, and generally missing the entire point of the story. Oh, and it came with an "angry local crossing his arms" photo. I've no desire to go anywhere near that again!The DM love this sort of stuff, and the negative publicity might get Amazon to rethink their policy on this which is clearly daft and obstructive.
There's also an exemption from data protection for legal proceedings. From the ICO site...
for or in connection with any legal proceedings (including prospective legal proceedings);
for obtaining legal advice; or
for establishing, exercising or defending legal rights.
You do not have to disclose personal data in response to a request from a third party simply because this exemption applies. You can choose whether or not to apply the exemption to make a disclosure, and you should do so only if you are satisfied that the disclosure falls within the scope of the exemption.
I suspect if you continue escalating with Amazon and quoting the relevant sections of the DPA which indicate they could, if they wanted, give you the details, they'll eventually give you the cost of a new Dot to go away.
- *********
for or in connection with any legal proceedings (including prospective legal proceedings);
for obtaining legal advice; or
for establishing, exercising or defending legal rights.
You do not have to disclose personal data in response to a request from a third party simply because this exemption applies. You can choose whether or not to apply the exemption to make a disclosure, and you should do so only if you are satisfied that the disclosure falls within the scope of the exemption.
- ****************
I suspect if you continue escalating with Amazon and quoting the relevant sections of the DPA which indicate they could, if they wanted, give you the details, they'll eventually give you the cost of a new Dot to go away.
Durzel said:
Police resources are finite.
Not so finite that this kind of indulgent nonsense can't happen ...https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
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