Claiming for damage - classic car

[sunbeam alpine]

Last year I acquired a one-owner 1967 Alfa Giulia which had been dry stored for more than 20 years (purchased from the estate of the original owner who had given up driving but couldn't bear to part with the car). The car has only covered 57000km and the bodywork was in near-perfect condition. The engine turned over (I changed oil etc. first) and ran, but was low on compression on 2 cylinders. The interior was like new. The car had obviously been cherished it's whole life.

In January this year, due to work levels and lack of time, I delivered to car to a highly-recommended Alfa specialist with the remit to completely refurbish/recomission the car. No firm deadline was agreed - I already have a large collection of classics so had no pressing need to drive the car - but I was told to expect the car back sometime this summer. The specialist is quite a distance away (about 3 hours drive), so we've kept in contact via occasional phone calls, and I was encouraged by his description of how the work was going.

Last Sunday some of my friends were on a classic car run over in the area where the specialist is located so they passed by. I was dismayed to get a phone call telling me that the car was parked outside, with stinging nettles up to roof height, obviously untouched since the day we dropped it off. The bodywork has started to show signs of deterioration due to being stood outside, the boot was partially open, and they could see a lot of mould formation in the interior.

I've tried phoning the garage (I have landline and a mobile number) but my calls are going unanswered.

He promised me that the car would be stored inside his premises (I have more than enough space to store cars so I only delivered after he confirmed he had space free).

I'm now planning to go next week (earlist I can get away) to recover the car.

The car will obviously have suffered some damage/deterioration due to this so-called "specialist's" neglect, particularly as it had never been left outside. I also feel guilty toward the previous owner - the car was only sold to me because another specialist within the Alfa community recommended me - the family wanted it to go to an Alfa enthusiast. That specialist contacted me because he had too many projects (at least 2 years restoration work) and didn't have anywhere to dry store the car. He would normally have been my first choice to do the work.

I was wondering whether anyone had any advice or experience regarding making a claim against the garage. Unfortunately I don't have a specialist valuation for this particular vehicle (I do for my other classics) as I was planning on getting it done after the refurb. In addition, no money has changed hands at this point (none was asked for by the garage).

Just to make clear - I am aware of the name and shame rules.To avoid anyone trying to guess, I am based in Belgium and have always experienced excellent service from the best-known UK names!

TL:DR So-called marque specialist has sodded up one of my classic cars by letting me deliver it to them in January and just leaving it standing outside, and still haven't started work on it. I'm wondering whether I can sue them for the damage the car has suffered.

[CAPP0]

I hope you have, or can obtain, photos of the car's current predicament before you alert the specialist?

[MitchT]

Inconvenient, but you need to go yourself and take photos. Are you sure it's your car? Was there a worse one there too that's being mistaken for yours? Is the company's attitude that it's getting a complete recommission so it won't matter if it deteriorates a bit as they'll be fixing it all anyway?

[Charlie Croker mk2]

Giving any garage a "open Cheque book " to restore a car is never a good idea . But as I presume its UK law we are talking about ? then the terms of the written and signed contract would apply . Was there a paper contract ? No The restorers are in rented property and could just move out at any time they like.

Best case is to go with a trailer and with help and get it back one evening and get it back in your own country where you can oversee the work yourself .

[sunbeam alpine]

Thanks for the replies!

CAPP0 - unfortunately no pics at present! I guess the garage will have been alerted by my calls

MitchT - I will just go and get the car back - I've lost all faith in them. The car has been abandoned outside for 6 months! It's definitely my car - there are a couple of period stickers in the windows.

Charlie Croker mk2 - the same garage has in the past restored a boat-tail 1750 Alfa Spider and a GT Junior owned by friends. Both restorations were carried out to a very high standard. The Spider is genuinely concours and has won several prizes. Both I and the garage in question are in Belgium. My friends are amazed - it seems that the guy has just lost interest this year - the Spider resto was finished early last year.

Any legal action would fall under Belgian law, so I don't expect advice regarding that. What I was looking for was to hear whether anyone has been through something similar. I understand it will be difficult to quantify a loss as I hadn't had the car valued before I dropped it off. I have a few photos from when we collected it from the previous owner, and the Alfa specialist who was contacted by the estate had seen the car and may be willing to put something on paper.

It's maybe an emotional reaction (not the best circs to start legal proceedings!) but my best mate and his wife are lawyers over here and so I have free legal help. I'm not so much worried about the money, just want to cause him maximum inconvenience. I will be collecting the car on Monday next week.

[InitialDave]

I'd turn up and get my car, and then once it was safely back home, be strongly inclined tell everyone, everywhere, the details of how they've let you down.

[sunbeam alpine]

InitialDave said:

I'd turn up and get my car, and then once it was safely back home, be strongly inclined tell everyone, everywhere, the details of how they've let you down.

I'll definitely be doing that!

[AyBee]

Is the value of the car not what you paid for it and therefore the damage is what you paid for it vs. what it's worth now?

[Integroo]

AyBee said:

Is the value of the car not what you paid for it and therefore the damage is what you paid for it vs. what it's worth now?

Either that or the value to put it right again, if possible, which may be more than the loss in value.

[BertBert]

Unless you know Belgian law, it's daft question.

There's several ways to quantify the loss. The value now compared to what you paid. The value now compared to the value then. The extra resto costs due to the degradation. The higher costs of resto now compared to when he said he started. Maybe there's some punitive element as he lied to you.

But it's all about what works in Belgian courts. Ask your lawyer friends!

Good luck in getting it sorted.

Bert

[sunbeam alpine]

BertBert said:

Unless you know Belgian law, it's daft question.

There's several ways to quantify the loss. The value now compared to what you paid. The value now compared to the value then. The extra resto costs due to the degradation. The higher costs of resto now compared to when he said he started. Maybe there's some punitive element as he lied to you.

But it's all about what works in Belgian courts. Ask your lawyer friends!

Good luck in getting it sorted.

Bert

I wasn't looking for legal advice - more wondering whether anyone on here had similar experience.

In answer to your post - the car is still worth probably more than I paid. The main point here is that it came from the estate of an Alfa lover, and they sold me the car for a very low price (I paid what they asked - didn't try to haggle) on the basis that it would also be going to someone with a love for Alfas - see my garage

I bought it on a "gentlemans agreement" not to sell it on at a profit - I could have turned it around for more than double the price I paid, and they knew what the car was worth - but that was never the plan. It's more the feeling that I have let them down by putting the car into the hands of someone who has left it abandoned outside.

The car had always been garaged (and I have more than enough storage space). It's now been left outside on grass since January.

The refurb will inevitably cost more now - the interrior is covered in mould.

The garage owner has finally contacted me this morning. He says that his wife is receiving cancer treatment and that he's let everything slide. The sad thing is that with all the lies he's told, I don't know whether to believe him or not. We've agreed that I will go there next Monday to discuss the situation.

[TooMany2cvs]

sunbeam alpine said:

The main point here is that it came from the estate of an Alfa lover, and they sold me the car for a very low price (I paid what they asked - didn't try to haggle) on the basis that it would also be going to someone with a love for Alfas - see my garage

I bought it on a "gentlemans agreement" not to sell it on at a profit - I could have turned it around for more than double the price I paid, and they knew what the car was worth - but that was never the plan. It's more the feeling that I have let them down by putting the car into the hands of someone who has left it abandoned outside.

The car had always been garaged (and I have more than enough storage space). It's now been left outside on grass since January.

The refurb will inevitably cost more now - the interrior is covered in mould.

I'm not trying to dismiss the situation, but "a feeling of letting them down" is not something that's really claimable... It's not your fault. You did your best. You've been let down by somebody who was well-chosen and should have been trustworthy.

It was at this specialists because it needed refurb work - but has that refurb work actually increased? Mould will clean off the interior fairly easily.

[andburg]

sunbeam alpine said:

I wasn't looking for legal advice - more wondering whether anyone on here had similar experience.

In answer to your post - the car is still worth probably more than I paid. The main point here is that it came from the estate of an Alfa lover, and they sold me the car for a very low price (I paid what they asked - didn't try to haggle) on the basis that it would also be going to someone with a love for Alfas - see my garage

I bought it on a "gentlemans agreement" not to sell it on at a profit - I could have turned it around for more than double the price I paid, and they knew what the car was worth - but that was never the plan. It's more the feeling that I have let them down by putting the car into the hands of someone who has left it abandoned outside.

The car had always been garaged (and I have more than enough storage space). It's now been left outside on grass since January.

The refurb will inevitably cost more now - the interrior is covered in mould.

The garage owner has finally contacted me this morning. He says that his wife is receiving cancer treatment and that he's let everything slide. The sad thing is that with all the lies he's told, I don't know whether to believe him or not. We've agreed that I will go there next Monday to discuss the situation.

What if he turns round and says he will get it prioritized now, and complete all the extra works it now needs for the same agreed price or less?

if he truly is having issue at home with his wife and has let stuff slip then he will need to get back to running his business or he'll soon find financial problems follow.

[Vaud]

andburg said:

if he truly is having issue at home with his wife and has let stuff slip then he will need to get back to running his business or he'll soon find financial problems follow.

Not necessarily. Some people work for the challenge, not the money.

[BertBert]

sunbeam alpine said:

I wasn't looking for legal advice - more wondering whether anyone on here had similar experience.

Actually that's exactly what you asked for and I quote

sunbeam alpine said:

...whether anyone had any advice or experience regarding making a claim against the garage.

If you want to get money from the guy, you can go for any reasonable mechanism you like to determine the amount. It's almost certain that he won't have any money to give you so if you are determined you'll have to resort to some form of legal claim. Hence the thoughts about what works best in Belgian law.

Bert