Used Car - 3 x clutch failures in under 12 months

[The Beaver King]

Hi,

Just after a quick bit of advice and guidance please; I'll try to keep it brief.

We bought a car for my OH just under 12 months ago, a 207CC diesel. It had a full service history, sensible miles (circa 60k) and was generally a nice tidy car. We bought it from a registered trader (forecourt, sales team, good reviews etc) for circa £3,5k, which we paid in cash. We also took out the extended warranty for the OH's peace of mind.

We picked up the car and it broke down 2 miles down the road (we'd had a test drive previously, no problems). Clutch pedal went straight to the floor and wouldn't return; so pretty obvious it was a gearbox/clutch issue. They came and picked up the car to repair it; to be fair, they did offer a refund at the time, but I decided that if they did the repair work and replaced the clutch then at least that work was done and not something to worry about in the near future.

Work was done and car was repaired; no issues for 4 months and then the clutch went again. Had the car taken back to the dealer, who was adamant that they'd used all Peugeot genuine parts and there is no way it should have failed again. So they contacted Peugeot and sent it to them for inspection and repair.

Peugeot initally blamed the garage for an incorrect install, but backed down when they carried out their inspection. They did the repair work themselves (didn't actually say what the problem was, but believe it was a slave/master cylinder) and had the car back.

Last week the clutch went again... It went straight back to the dealers, who have passed it back to Peugeot. Peugeot have had it for a week but have still not even inspected it.

So what, if any, options do I have with regards to the car? It needs to go really; my OH is always going to be worried about it breaking down again, so she won't feel comfortable with it anymore. As it is just under 12 months since buying it, can I return it (less any depreciation for the additional miles circa 7k) or am I stuck with it and I'll need to P/X or sell it privately?

It is really frustrating as it is a nice car, but this re-occuring clutch issues is a serious concern.

Thanks for any advice.

[boobles]

Personally I would ask for my money back as the problems keep coming back. Mention trading standards etc if they get a bit funny, that usually does the trick.

[mr rusty]

I don't think I'd bank on going in quoting trading standards. I think you'll get further trading on "goodwill". Might have to just get it fixed and trade it out. Be interested to know what the problem is because this is hardly a rare engine in the citroen-peugeot line up and there are a lot of them about.

[Zetec-S]

Can you find out exactly what the problem was on each occasion?

Hypothetically, 1st issue could have been the slave/master cylinder. 2nd issue was the previous repair poorly fitted or a faulty component. 3rd issue could simply be worn clutch? So if (finally) all put right under warranty she could get on and use the car without worry?

[mgv8]

Clutch system is just not that complicated. What you need is a full report on what was done each time the car went it. Then what they are going to do different this time. If the rest of the car is good and Pug are doing the work I would stick with it one more time with an agreement that is it goes with in 12month you get your cash back.

[W124Bob]

A search seems to show a few owners with clutch issues, what year is your car? There appears to have been a recall at some point regarding a clutch issue, but a quick search doesn't reveal much. The diesel 207 gets a lot of hits re clutch problems. So your car may not be a one off.

[boobles]

mr rusty said:

I don't think I'd bank on going in quoting trading standards. I think you'll get further trading on "goodwill". Might have to just get it fixed and trade it out. Be interested to know what the problem is because this is hardly a rare engine in the citroen-peugeot line up and there are a lot of them about.

Why? They have been sold a vehicle that clearly isn't "fit for purpose" At some point they will say enough is enough.

[Sheepshanks]

boobles said:

mr rusty said:

I don't think I'd bank on going in quoting trading standards. I think you'll get further trading on "goodwill". Might have to just get it fixed and trade it out. Be interested to know what the problem is because this is hardly a rare engine in the citroen-peugeot line up and there are a lot of them about.

Why? They have been sold a vehicle that clearly isn't "fit for purpose" At some point they will say enough is enough.

Well, apart from anything else, Trading Standards basically doesn't exist any more as far as consumers are concerned.

OP says the dealer has a good reputation and it sounds like they've done everything they can so far. Why not keep it friendly and see if an arrangement can be made to change the car?

[Greendubber]

boobles said:

mr rusty said:

I don't think I'd bank on going in quoting trading standards. I think you'll get further trading on "goodwill". Might have to just get it fixed and trade it out. Be interested to know what the problem is because this is hardly a rare engine in the citroen-peugeot line up and there are a lot of them about.

Why? They have been sold a vehicle that clearly isn't "fit for purpose" At some point they will say enough is enough.

You don't always need a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

The dealer seems reasonable so barking trading standards at them seems a bit over the top to me too at this stage.

[Andyjc86]

What not speak to the dealers with regard to purchasing another car from them and them buying yours back, for say £3k?

What happened on the second and third time the clutch failed? Was it no pedal like the first?

[carreauchompeur]

Yeah, I was going to suggest some sort of chop in. They sound reasonable but I don't think you can really reject after so long. Definitely not user error/riding the clutch?

[The Beaver King]

Zetec-S said:

Can you find out exactly what the problem was on each occasion?

Hypothetically, 1st issue could have been the slave/master cylinder. 2nd issue was the previous repair poorly fitted or a faulty component. 3rd issue could simply be worn clutch? So if (finally) all put right under warranty she could get on and use the car without worry?

Same issue on all three occasions; pedal down, doesn't return, even with a few pumps. 99% it is the same issue each time; the dealer did wonder if there is a batch of faulty genuine spare parts floating around, hence Peugeot going quiet and waiving costs last time around.

mgv8 said:

Clutch system is just not that complicated. What you need is a full report on what was done each time the car went it. Then what they are going to do different this time. If the rest of the car is good and Pug are doing the work I would stick with it one more time with an agreement that is it goes with in 12month you get your cash back.

The problem is that I used this line of reasoning with the OH last time; "Peugeot are doing the work themselves, it'll be fine, no more issues" etc and yet it still went pop. She'll have demonised the car now and she isn't the worlds most confident driver, especially as it has left her stranded on the motorway on two occasions...

W124Bob said:

A search seems to show a few owners with clutch issues, what year is your car? There appears to have been a recall at some point regarding a clutch issue, but a quick search doesn't reveal much. The diesel 207 gets a lot of hits re clutch problems. So your car may not be a one off.

07 plate and, yes, seems to be a common theme. I read through most of the websites last time this happended. There doesn't seem to be a definitive answer though. I was hoping Peugeot would have the answer and be able to rectify it last time around.

Sheepshanks said:

boobles said:

mr rusty said:

I don't think I'd bank on going in quoting trading standards. I think you'll get further trading on "goodwill". Might have to just get it fixed and trade it out. Be interested to know what the problem is because this is hardly a rare engine in the citroen-peugeot line up and there are a lot of them about.

Why? They have been sold a vehicle that clearly isn't "fit for purpose" At some point they will say enough is enough.

Well, apart from anything else, Trading Standards basically doesn't exist any more as far as consumers are concerned.

OP says the dealer has a good reputation and it sounds like they've done everything they can so far. Why not keep it friendly and see if an arrangement can be made to change the car?

The dealer has been quite reasonable over the last 12 months and I'm not looking to fall out with them. Their communication has been hit and miss, but generally they have dealt with everything head on and been good about it. I'll float some ideas with them to see what they think rather than banging heavy letters into them.

carreauchompeur said:

Yeah, I was going to suggest some sort of chop in. They sound reasonable but I don't think you can really reject after so long. Definitely not user error/riding the clutch?

Unfortunately they haven't really got anything else on the forecourt that fits the bill and my OH is feeling pretty jaded towards them (even though it isn't really their fault).

Definitely not her fault; she is a very 'steady' driver and I've never noticed her doing anything that would mess the clutch up.

[boobles]

I literally only said that as you had mentioned that your wife had already lost confidence in the car, hence it has to go. (the car)
Yes the dealer has been helpful & so have peugeot, but somewhere along the line they are useless at fixing a vehicle & my confidence would have gone along time ago as they can't seem to fix a car properly.

[andymc]

will be almost impossible to reject, speak to him asap

[bearman68]

Wondering if it's worth putting a non genuine part in.Clearly something is wrong with the Pug bits.

[Vaud]

I'd look to part ex it with that dealer, for 3.5k less however many miles have been driven?

They sound like an above average trader, so probably worth going in with a constructive negotiation.

[Wait Here Until Green Light Shows]

It's not specifically the clutch that is failing... it's a fault somewhere in the clutch actuator components...i.e master cylinder (the bit bolted to the clutch pedal), slave cylinder (the bit bolted to the gearbox end) or the pressure plate (the bit that ultimately pushes the pedal back up, like a spring), and possibly (but not likely unless incorrectly fitted) the release arm or bearing.

Ideally you'd start by replacing the master and slave cylinders. Both parts are so cheap it's a no brainier to start with the most likely culprits and work back.

So - what have they actually replaced so far?

[Old Merc]

Wait Here Until Green Light Shows said:

It's not specifically the clutch that is failing... it's a fault somewhere in the clutch actuator components...i.e master cylinder (the bit bolted to the clutch pedal), slave cylinder (the bit bolted to the gearbox end) or the pressure plate (the bit that ultimately pushes the pedal back up, like a spring), and possibly (but not likely unless incorrectly fitted) the release arm or bearing.

Ideally you'd start by replacing the master and slave cylinders. Both parts are so cheap it's a no brainier to start with the most likely culprits and work back.

So - what have they actually replaced so far?

Not sure if this is relevant ? http://www.peugeotforums.com/forums/207-36/master-...

Could be the same sort of problem? what ever it is I would not be happy having that car back. Total refund or a deal on another car.

[GreatGranny]

Just part ex it for a car which isn't a Peugeot.

Don't think you will get a refund 12 months after purchase.

I know its the easy way out but I wouldn't want the hassle.

Part ex for a Honda/Toyota etc.. and move on.

[The Beaver King]

Wait Here Until Green Light Shows said:

It's not specifically the clutch that is failing... it's a fault somewhere in the clutch actuator components...i.e master cylinder (the bit bolted to the clutch pedal), slave cylinder (the bit bolted to the gearbox end) or the pressure plate (the bit that ultimately pushes the pedal back up, like a spring), and possibly (but not likely unless incorrectly fitted) the release arm or bearing.

Ideally you'd start by replacing the master and slave cylinders. Both parts are so cheap it's a no brainier to start with the most likely culprits and work back.

So - what have they actually replaced so far?

Sorry; yes I know it isn't the clutch that is actually failing, I was just describing it more in terms of a system failure.

I've worked on quite a lot of cars over the years and I'm fairly certain it is a slave failure. Of course, it is one of these annoying arrangements where the slave is located inside the bellhousing, so I can't do a visual. No leaks anywhere else on the system, so unless the clutch fork has bent on three separate occasions, then it has got to be the slave.


I've got a call with Peugeot today on what the exact problem is. Hopefully they will be more willing to specify what the problem is this time...

The car will be going, no matter what. I'll probably just sell it private or part ex it, unless the dealer gets something suitable in over the next few weeks.

Thanks for all the help and advice.