Registered smallholding registration / search

[alfie2244]

Unable to find a piece of land on land registry owned by my recently deceased father, which I know to be a registered smallholding but unable to find the registration certificate which I have previously seen.

I am able to find adjacent property that this land was originally part of but separated from when land bought by my father and have downloaded the land reg for this

I am also able to find (and downloaded) registration of a very small piece of the access to this land that was disputed and eventually registered to my father however I am not able to trace the main part of the land, circa 2.5 acres IIRC.

Happy to pay for any expert advice if we have any on the forum.

Many thanks in advance.

[Dark Star]

The Land Registry will hold the correct copies of the paperwork.
If you contact them with your request then they will be able to trace the paperwork for you.

Or if your late father used a solicitor when sorting out the legal side of owning the land then they could have copies of your required paperwork.

[bladebloke]

The easiest (and free) way is usually to use the Land Registry's Mapsearch facility these days if you just need to find out a title number but you need a business account to log in to it.

If you want to do it yourself, you can submit a search of the index map - you will need to produce a plan of the land - the result of the search will reveal any registered titles in the area on the plan. See https://www.gov.uk/get-information-about-property-...

[alfie2244]

Many thanks for the replies.......to clarify:

I can find the property on land reg mapsearch and a downloadable list of all the surrounding properties, even a small section of my fathers land that was subject to dispute in he early 90's which he won.

He originally purchased the whole site (including the agricultural smallholding registration) when it was separated from the house (tin shack) in c1974.........could it be the case that it just isn't available online due to date it was bought?

As an executor I am due to meet solicitors to arrange probate etc so hopefully they hold a copy but my dad wasn't the sort to use solicitors / banks etc very often.

eta the actual smallholding registration itself may have a considerable influence of the value land over and above basic arable land but not sure where this would be held and why I would like to find it.

Edited by alfie2244 on Wednesday 19th July 08:44

[bladebloke]

alfie2244 said:

Many thanks for the replies.......to clarify:

I can find the property on land reg mapsearch and a downloadable list of all the surrounding properties, even a small section of my fathers land that was subject to dispute in he early 90's which he won.

He originally purchased the whole site (including the agricultural smallholding registration) when it was separated from the house (tin shack) in c1974.........could it be the case that it just isn't available online due to date it was bought?

As an executor I am due to meet solicitors to arrange probate etc so hopefully they hold a copy but my dad wasn't the sort to use solicitors / banks etc very often.

eta the actual smallholding registration itself may have a considerable influence of the value land over and above basic arable land but not sure where this would be held and why I would like to find it.

Edited by alfie2244 on Wednesday 19th July 08:44

I'm not sure what you mean by "registered smallholding" but I am now assuming that you don't mean registered at the Land Registry. If it's registered, it will show on Mapsearch (and an index map search result).

So it's probably unregistered. Compulsory first registration dates vary enormously depending on what part of the country you're in so it's possible it hadn't engaged by 1974 wherever this land is.

Which means you have a mess to sort out if you don't have the deeds proving your father's ownership I'm afraid - one for your solicitors.

[alfie2244]

bladebloke said:

I'm not sure what you mean by "registered smallholding" but I am now assuming that you don't mean registered at the Land Registry. If it's registered, it will show on Mapsearch (and an index map search result).

So it's probably unregistered. Compulsory first registration dates vary enormously depending on what part of the country you're in so it's possible it hadn't engaged by 1974 wherever this land is.

Which means you have a mess to sort out if you don't have the deeds proving your father's ownership I'm afraid - one for your solicitors.

I am doing this entirely from memory so may have things entirely wrong.

The land was one of many that was set up for returning soldiers after the the 1st world war to eek a living out of (Kent) and most had tin sheds on them and were given some official title in this effect. But they proved to be too small to really make a living from.

The one my father bought in C1972 was owned by a little old man that had a 3 wheel bike with a basket on. He had erected a couple of greenhouses (with sunken boiler room) and somehow managed to "survive" and live in the tin shed on site. My father bought the majority of the land, which was now so overgrown and neglected that it took a year to clear by hand and and Allenscythe, and left the old man with the "tin house", one greenhouse and a section of the land....he lived for another 20yrs or so like this.

My father was given, and I saw, some sort of registration certificate which IIRC inferred some rights to the land he purchased over and above standard agricultural land (right to live 11 months a year perhaps?)

When the old man died in the early 90's a previously unknown distant relative appeared, as they do, and claimed the "tin hut" (his will leaving it to my father had gone missing would you believe) and a legal argument ensued (defence by me and my surveyor) when the "inheritor" claimed my father had stolen part of the land from the estate. Once we had proven this not to be the case it was handed to a solicitor.

I can now see this section of "disputed" land on Land reg as owned by my father. I can also find the "tin hut" (now a 6 bed house) on land reg.

What I can't find is either my father's land on land reg or this "smallholding certificate" I have an appointment to see the solicitor next week re probate etc so he may have a copy of the land reg / sale etc but I doubt he will have a copy of this certificate....as yet I can't even find anyone that actually knows what it was.

I take onboard your comment RE pre 1974 but would have assumed it was all registered at the same time as the disputed land in the 90's (same solicitors I think).Truth is so far I have only spoken to the solicitor about probate / will etc but not overly impressed. They are strongly hinting they would like to do probate etc but I am seriously thinking of doing it all myself so I wanted to have as much info about this before I met them next week.

[Trevor450]

You need to contact the Rural Payments Agency. It's called a CPH number.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/get-a-cph-number-from-...

[C Lee Farquar]

Trevor450 said:

You need to contact the Rural Payments Agency. It's called a CPH number.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/get-a-cph-number-from-...

Yes, they give out agricultural holding numbers. I can't see it carries any value though.

[alfie2244]

C Lee Farquar said:

Trevor450 said:

You need to contact the Rural Payments Agency. It's called a CPH number.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/get-a-cph-number-from-...

Yes, they give out agricultural holding numbers. I can't see it carries any value though.

Did speak to them............they didn't have a clue what I was talking about either

Only value I can see is the possibility of developing perhaps. (not housing but maybe holiday / caravans etc).

My dad struggled to read and I never did look closely at this piece of paper as I was young when I last saw it..........It could well be I have got it all wrong as it was his piece of heaven on earth and was never discussed let alone developed in any way shape or form whilst he was alive.

[alfie2244]

Interesting:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1916/38/pdfs/u...