Help me convince my partner that MLM is bad news...
Discussion
Multi Level Marketing - no names but you will find many similar firms if you want to search online it will probably be picked up under skincar lotions and potions. There's loads out there these days aimed at younger women it would seem.
Long time poster but using another account for anonymity.
Thought about putting this in The Lounge but I felt the Business forum often has a more serious tone and I'm looking for that type of response.
Been with my new partner for 6 months or so. A bit younger than me but mature beyond her years with day to day life. Ambitious and hard working, wants the finer things in life and happy to work for them rather than get pregnant and go down the council house benefits route. I'm successful in what I do and have a good reputation in my industry which offers me the chance to make a decent income and more than pay for her, she doesn't really have to work if she doesn't want to and probably knows as much but she wants to contribute, which is admirable.
The problem is.... She has been taken in by one of these MLM dreamschemes for future residual income, beach money etc etc. I'd say it's a scheme but it's not a scheme or a scam, it's legal, just about, using products to get round the legislation surrounding pyramid schemes. None of it is about selling the products, it's about selling the dream and recruiting others so on and so forth who go on to recruit others and the pyramid grows. They're all over Facebook & Instagram and the rest bouncing off one another telling each other what amazing lives they all lead, encouraged to post photos of them abroad, buying new clothes, a new car etc...
She has a full time job which allows her to pursue this dream, as I wouldn't fund it myself but it's her money so what can I say. The MLM people encourage her to remove her full time job from her social media 'life' to make it seems that all she does is this MLM. She is encouraged to take pics when on holiday etc helping her sell the dream when in reality she is making little or nothing from it, far from funding our slightly extravagant lifestyle. In fact she has to top up her stock out of her own money if she doesn't hit a certain quota each month to retain some ridiculous commission tier that they drill into these poor girls...
She still doesn't see it though bless her and I've read up a lot on this online and have been aware for years of similar schemes but once they have you and your surrounded by others who are lying to you (they all have full time jobs funding this rubbish too no doubt) then it makes it difficult for her to see the wood for the trees.
Reason for post is I need to say something. It's starting to impact me in a couple of ways now. She is using things that we do to 'promote' her business and I am tied in to her social media a lot of the time. Now in my industry I am often referred around and I have to appear credible - which I am by the way, I hope! If I was doing my due diligence on someone I was working with then I would be looking them up online and reviewing their digital footprint to get a gut feeling about who I may be doing business with. If I saw a potential business partner, supplier, JV candidate etc involved with this MLM dream chasing stuff then it would put me off as the people I do business with know that this is all a great marketing plot from the people at the top of the organisation to have an army of girls pushing their products with no basic wage, company cars, fuel cards, nat insurance contributions, healthcare, insurance, phone bills, equipment etc etc - god the list is endless.
I'm worried that this may affect me, and if it does then it has the potential to cost me a LOT of money in potential lost revenue if someone takes a negative view on what they see.
I suppose personally I don't really like the fact that she may use what is a nice thing we are doing together to promote this phoney life but that is more for the lounge and I wanted to keep this business related.
I guess what I am asking for is peoples experiences, any positives out there, anyone in the same situation as me? My research online suggests after another year she will probably give up as she will have to realise she is investing lots of time and a little bit of money each month for no real reward.
Sorry for long post, probably some errors too, my dinner is ready so no time to check and I wanted to get this off my chest.
Look forward to hearing anyone's thoughts on the subject.
Long time poster but using another account for anonymity.
Thought about putting this in The Lounge but I felt the Business forum often has a more serious tone and I'm looking for that type of response.
Been with my new partner for 6 months or so. A bit younger than me but mature beyond her years with day to day life. Ambitious and hard working, wants the finer things in life and happy to work for them rather than get pregnant and go down the council house benefits route. I'm successful in what I do and have a good reputation in my industry which offers me the chance to make a decent income and more than pay for her, she doesn't really have to work if she doesn't want to and probably knows as much but she wants to contribute, which is admirable.
The problem is.... She has been taken in by one of these MLM dreamschemes for future residual income, beach money etc etc. I'd say it's a scheme but it's not a scheme or a scam, it's legal, just about, using products to get round the legislation surrounding pyramid schemes. None of it is about selling the products, it's about selling the dream and recruiting others so on and so forth who go on to recruit others and the pyramid grows. They're all over Facebook & Instagram and the rest bouncing off one another telling each other what amazing lives they all lead, encouraged to post photos of them abroad, buying new clothes, a new car etc...
She has a full time job which allows her to pursue this dream, as I wouldn't fund it myself but it's her money so what can I say. The MLM people encourage her to remove her full time job from her social media 'life' to make it seems that all she does is this MLM. She is encouraged to take pics when on holiday etc helping her sell the dream when in reality she is making little or nothing from it, far from funding our slightly extravagant lifestyle. In fact she has to top up her stock out of her own money if she doesn't hit a certain quota each month to retain some ridiculous commission tier that they drill into these poor girls...
She still doesn't see it though bless her and I've read up a lot on this online and have been aware for years of similar schemes but once they have you and your surrounded by others who are lying to you (they all have full time jobs funding this rubbish too no doubt) then it makes it difficult for her to see the wood for the trees.
Reason for post is I need to say something. It's starting to impact me in a couple of ways now. She is using things that we do to 'promote' her business and I am tied in to her social media a lot of the time. Now in my industry I am often referred around and I have to appear credible - which I am by the way, I hope! If I was doing my due diligence on someone I was working with then I would be looking them up online and reviewing their digital footprint to get a gut feeling about who I may be doing business with. If I saw a potential business partner, supplier, JV candidate etc involved with this MLM dream chasing stuff then it would put me off as the people I do business with know that this is all a great marketing plot from the people at the top of the organisation to have an army of girls pushing their products with no basic wage, company cars, fuel cards, nat insurance contributions, healthcare, insurance, phone bills, equipment etc etc - god the list is endless.
I'm worried that this may affect me, and if it does then it has the potential to cost me a LOT of money in potential lost revenue if someone takes a negative view on what they see.
I suppose personally I don't really like the fact that she may use what is a nice thing we are doing together to promote this phoney life but that is more for the lounge and I wanted to keep this business related.
I guess what I am asking for is peoples experiences, any positives out there, anyone in the same situation as me? My research online suggests after another year she will probably give up as she will have to realise she is investing lots of time and a little bit of money each month for no real reward.
Sorry for long post, probably some errors too, my dinner is ready so no time to check and I wanted to get this off my chest.
Look forward to hearing anyone's thoughts on the subject.
Edited by anotheracc on Thursday 20th July 22:04
Edited by anotheracc on Monday 24th July 14:40
"The MLM people encourage her to remove her full time job from her social media 'life' to make it seems that all she does is this MLM. She is encouraged to take pics when I take her to nice places or we go out in nice cars, on holiday etc helping her sell the dream when in reality she is making little or nothing from it, far from funding our slightly extravagant lifestyle."
So what they're actually telling her is that everyone she sees isn't doing it as their full time job, they don't go on nice holidays because of it and they don't drive nice cars because of it.
What more does she need?
So what they're actually telling her is that everyone she sees isn't doing it as their full time job, they don't go on nice holidays because of it and they don't drive nice cars because of it.
What more does she need?
This is a tricky one without sounding too critical of your girlfriend. But you asked for opinions, so here is my two-penneth.
When I had girlfriends before being married, I was always thinking at the back of my mind 'is this someone I could see myself getting married to?'
The fact that she is thinking this "scheme" is a good idea and either isn't researching it properly or is ignoring the advice from trusted people as to why it can't work, would be a massive red flag to me.
We all teach our children that if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is. This helps give them a shield of scepticism which they use as an adult to help them avoid the scams and pitfalls which are everywhere in modern life.
I am presuming she wasn't taught this by her parents. Or she was taught it and still wants to be blissfully naive as to the reality of life. And you have to question, if she is this easily convinced by snake oil salesmen, what would happen when married and she can risk your money as well?
Personally, I would deal with this in a matter of fact kind of way. You explain again why it doesn't make sense, that it is a scam and that by participating it directly effects her reputation and by association yours. And on that basis I would ask her not to continue.
If she can't see the facts when you spell it out that clearly, let's be really honest, you have to question her judgement amongst other things. And do you really want to to go much further with her?
Sorry if this sounds harsh - it don't want to sound mean, but I can't find a more subtle way of describing how this to me looks like a fork in the road.
As a marketer myself I despise MLM and in particular the way they go about recruiting. I've had many an argument with idiots who've paid £199 and are now business/marketing/supply chain experts, trotting out the same pish to anyone who will listen.
Stick lifetree world into Youtube and see how many f
kwits signed up, made exactly the same crap video (all a year ago btw), got a handful of views and erm, nothing since. If you're lucky you'll come across one or two where I valiantly tried to explain to the plebs that a couple of guys from a st industrial unit in Manchester had not improved on Tesco's supply chain and so could not 'pay you to do your shopping'.
Sadly they're very good at the initial lifestyle bullst and the only way out is to fail. The plus is that most will fail quickly. Alternatively succeed, but to do that means full time hours for a long time, unless you're a recruitment wonderkid. Forget anything about playing tennis all day and fitting a few emails around your coffee breaks garbage.
Stick lifetree world into Youtube and see how many f
kwits signed up, made exactly the same crap video (all a year ago btw), got a handful of views and erm, nothing since. If you're lucky you'll come across one or two where I valiantly tried to explain to the plebs that a couple of guys from a st industrial unit in Manchester had not improved on Tesco's supply chain and so could not 'pay you to do your shopping'.Sadly they're very good at the initial lifestyle bulls
t and the only way out is to fail. The plus is that most will fail quickly. Alternatively succeed, but to do that means full time hours for a long time, unless you're a recruitment wonderkid. Forget anything about playing tennis all day and fitting a few emails around your coffee breaks garbage.Hoofy said:
"The MLM people encourage her to remove her full time job from her social media 'life' to make it seems that all she does is this MLM. She is encouraged to take pics when I take her to nice places or we go out in nice cars, on holiday etc helping her sell the dream when in reality she is making little or nothing from it, far from funding our slightly extravagant lifestyle."
So what they're actually telling her is that everyone she sees isn't doing it as their full time job, they don't go on nice holidays because of it and they don't drive nice cars because of it.
What more does she need?
Very good point. It's staring her in the face reallySo what they're actually telling her is that everyone she sees isn't doing it as their full time job, they don't go on nice holidays because of it and they don't drive nice cars because of it.
What more does she need?
C722 said:
Watch 'Betting on Zero' on Netflix, should put her off
Never knew this existed, the film, not the company Herbalife. I'm definitely going to do as you say with some prior knowledge of the the similarities between her MLM and Herbalife of which I already understand there to be many.Thanks for this - could be a real help
EddieSteadyGo said:
This is a tricky one without sounding too critical of your girlfriend. But you asked for opinions, so here is my two-penneth.
When I had girlfriends before being married, I was always thinking at the back of my mind 'is this someone I could see myself getting married to?'
The fact that she is thinking this "scheme" is a good idea and either isn't researching it properly or is ignoring the advice from trusted people as to why it can't work, would be a massive red flag to me.
We all teach our children that if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is. This helps give them a shield of scepticism which they use as an adult to help them avoid the scams and pitfalls which are everywhere in modern life.
I am presuming she wasn't taught this by her parents. Or she was taught it and still wants to be blissfully naive as to the reality of life. And you have to question, if she is this easily convinced by snake oil salesmen, what would happen when married and she can risk your money as well?
Personally, I would deal with this in a matter of fact kind of way. You explain again why it doesn't make sense, that it is a scam and that by participating it directly effects her reputation and by association yours. And on that basis I would ask her not to continue.
If she can't see the facts when you spell it out that clearly, let's be really honest, you have to question her judgement amongst other things. And do you really want to to go much further with her?
Sorry if this sounds harsh - it don't want to sound mean, but I can't find a more subtle way of describing how this to me looks like a fork in the road.
andWhen I had girlfriends before being married, I was always thinking at the back of my mind 'is this someone I could see myself getting married to?'
The fact that she is thinking this "scheme" is a good idea and either isn't researching it properly or is ignoring the advice from trusted people as to why it can't work, would be a massive red flag to me.
We all teach our children that if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is. This helps give them a shield of scepticism which they use as an adult to help them avoid the scams and pitfalls which are everywhere in modern life.
I am presuming she wasn't taught this by her parents. Or she was taught it and still wants to be blissfully naive as to the reality of life. And you have to question, if she is this easily convinced by snake oil salesmen, what would happen when married and she can risk your money as well?
Personally, I would deal with this in a matter of fact kind of way. You explain again why it doesn't make sense, that it is a scam and that by participating it directly effects her reputation and by association yours. And on that basis I would ask her not to continue.
If she can't see the facts when you spell it out that clearly, let's be really honest, you have to question her judgement amongst other things. And do you really want to to go much further with her?
Sorry if this sounds harsh - it don't want to sound mean, but I can't find a more subtle way of describing how this to me looks like a fork in the road.
desolate said:
Sounds like a load of old tut,
Is your relationship worth the effort?
Golf ball and hose pipe etc.
Yeah I hear you and I would be getting rid if the rest of our relationship wasn't really good. Like I said she is young and it's admirable she is looking for opportunity at a young age, I hadn't started in business till 3/4 years after her current age so I admire that in her.Is your relationship worth the effort?
Golf ball and hose pipe etc.
Funnily enough we had dinner this evening with her mother and the topic was raised (by her mother - how iconic after posting this) who I think is in the same camp as me but happy to see her daughter find her own way a little bit first due to her age. We all discussed the pros and cons without laying into her about it too much but both her mother and I both encouraged other paths over this MLM stuff and recruiting others.
I appreciate what you are both saying though but for me want to retain the partner just lose the MLM. For what it's worth the MLM was here before me or I'd have told her straight from the start !
technodup said:
As a marketer myself I despise MLM and in particular the way they go about recruiting. I've had many an argument with idiots who've paid £199 and are now business/marketing/supply chain experts, trotting out the same pish to anyone who will listen.
Stick lifetree world into Youtube and see how many fkwits signed up, made exactly the same crap video (all a year ago btw), got a handful of views and erm, nothing since. If you're lucky you'll come across one or two where I valiantly tried to explain to the plebs that a couple of guys from a st industrial unit in Manchester had not improved on Tesco's supply chain and so could not 'pay you to do your shopping'.
Sadly they're very good at the initial lifestyle bullst and the only way out is to fail. The plus is that most will fail quickly. Alternatively succeed, but to do that means full time hours for a long time, unless you're a recruitment wonderkid. Forget anything about playing tennis all day and fitting a few emails around your coffee breaks garbage.
Found LIFETREE, will have a look later in bed - even the thumbnails for the videos look horrific.Stick lifetree world into Youtube and see how many f
kwits signed up, made exactly the same crap video (all a year ago btw), got a handful of views and erm, nothing since. If you're lucky you'll come across one or two where I valiantly tried to explain to the plebs that a couple of guys from a st industrial unit in Manchester had not improved on Tesco's supply chain and so could not 'pay you to do your shopping'.Sadly they're very good at the initial lifestyle bulls
t and the only way out is to fail. The plus is that most will fail quickly. Alternatively succeed, but to do that means full time hours for a long time, unless you're a recruitment wonderkid. Forget anything about playing tennis all day and fitting a few emails around your coffee breaks garbage.Sadly you are right, they are very good and they breed this almost cult like / religion type bulls
t into the recruits who all egg one another on. The problem is I think these days they want people in employment as it takes them longer to fail while they increase the company revenue topping up their 'stock' to hit fantasy commission tier targets.Hoofy said:
technodup said:
the only way out is to fail.
I think you're right there. People usually really they made a mistake with many of these get rich quick schemes after handing over some money and wasting some time. Hopefully, it won't be too much for the OPer's partner.I hope you are right, she isn't losing much money it's more the time and the IMO immoral marketing techniques that are concerning me. Well, also my rep being loosely linked to the whole thing. I get a feeling after this evening conversation around the dinner table that she may be coming round a bit as she didn't defend it in anyway. However I dread her 'meetings' next week with a load of brainwashed converts who drag her back in again with visions of a new Evoque and travelling the world on 'residual income'.
anotheracc said:
I appreciate what you are both saying though but for me want to retain the partner just lose the MLM. For what it's worth the MLM was here before me or I'd have told her straight from the start !
I guess the point I was trying to raise is whether the MLM is the symptom, not the problem. The problem being poor judgement, naivety, slightly gullible, doesn't listen to trusted members of her family etc etc.
Sorry, I won't go on. In all seriousness, hope it works out for you.
A friend of my wife was indoctrinated by the cult of Arbonne.
Before this, she was popular.
I was the first. Although it hurt, I couldn't bite my tongue when she claimed other skin products were "had petrol in them" with conviction. I'm a man of science, I couldn't not call custard. At the time, it made me the tt in the group.
Move on a year - she's no longer in the group. Literally no-one invites her out. For some they just can't be arsed with the constant bilge on facey / in person, for others it's more that a friend has used them to make 50 quid or whatever it was. She's not earning a white merc. Her Arbonne income still seems slim to nowt. The whole thing seems to have gained her maybe 500 quid, and cost her her entire social circle of mums.
Everything about these drastic MLM things is a lie. The lifestyle (you're a st version of an avon lady), the product (no clinical proof of anything, all sales arguments appear to be "buy this because the other product is st"), the impact on your mates (who will feel ripped off / just get sick of you). Oh, and the "bonus" Mercedes appears to be a lease. Which you are liable for, but the "bonus" sin't guaranteed for the term of the lease.
TL;DR? Tell her to run a mile. If she wants a career in sales, do that instead.
Before this, she was popular.
I was the first. Although it hurt, I couldn't bite my tongue when she claimed other skin products were "had petrol in them" with conviction. I'm a man of science, I couldn't not call custard. At the time, it made me the t
t in the group.Move on a year - she's no longer in the group. Literally no-one invites her out. For some they just can't be arsed with the constant bilge on facey / in person, for others it's more that a friend has used them to make 50 quid or whatever it was. She's not earning a white merc. Her Arbonne income still seems slim to nowt. The whole thing seems to have gained her maybe 500 quid, and cost her her entire social circle of mums.
Everything about these drastic MLM things is a lie. The lifestyle (you're a s
t version of an avon lady), the product (no clinical proof of anything, all sales arguments appear to be "buy this because the other product is st"), the impact on your mates (who will feel ripped off / just get sick of you). Oh, and the "bonus" Mercedes appears to be a lease. Which you are liable for, but the "bonus" sin't guaranteed for the term of the lease. TL;DR? Tell her to run a mile. If she wants a career in sales, do that instead.
EddieSteadyGo said:
This is a tricky one without sounding too critical of your girlfriend. But you asked for opinions, so here is my two-penneth.
When I had girlfriends before being married, I was always thinking at the back of my mind 'is this someone I could see myself getting married to?'
The fact that she is thinking this "scheme" is a good idea and either isn't researching it properly or is ignoring the advice from trusted people as to why it can't work, would be a massive red flag to me.
We all teach our children that if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is. This helps give them a shield of scepticism which they use as an adult to help them avoid the scams and pitfalls which are everywhere in modern life.
I am presuming she wasn't taught this by her parents. Or she was taught it and still wants to be blissfully naive as to the reality of life. And you have to question, if she is this easily convinced by snake oil salesmen, what would happen when married and she can risk your money as well?
Personally, I would deal with this in a matter of fact kind of way. You explain again why it doesn't make sense, that it is a scam and that by participating it directly effects her reputation and by association yours. And on that basis I would ask her not to continue.
If she can't see the facts when you spell it out that clearly, let's be really honest, you have to question her judgement amongst other things. And do you really want to to go much further with her?
Sorry if this sounds harsh - it don't want to sound mean, but I can't find a more subtle way of describing how this to me looks like a fork in the road.
Sorry OP, but I agree with this totally. When I had girlfriends before being married, I was always thinking at the back of my mind 'is this someone I could see myself getting married to?'
The fact that she is thinking this "scheme" is a good idea and either isn't researching it properly or is ignoring the advice from trusted people as to why it can't work, would be a massive red flag to me.
We all teach our children that if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is. This helps give them a shield of scepticism which they use as an adult to help them avoid the scams and pitfalls which are everywhere in modern life.
I am presuming she wasn't taught this by her parents. Or she was taught it and still wants to be blissfully naive as to the reality of life. And you have to question, if she is this easily convinced by snake oil salesmen, what would happen when married and she can risk your money as well?
Personally, I would deal with this in a matter of fact kind of way. You explain again why it doesn't make sense, that it is a scam and that by participating it directly effects her reputation and by association yours. And on that basis I would ask her not to continue.
If she can't see the facts when you spell it out that clearly, let's be really honest, you have to question her judgement amongst other things. And do you really want to to go much further with her?
Sorry if this sounds harsh - it don't want to sound mean, but I can't find a more subtle way of describing how this to me looks like a fork in the road.
As a first step, I'd tell her how I felt and explain exactly, just as you've done in the OP. I'd ask that she doesn't have any online association with me for the reasons given. I'd say she should set up 'business' Facebook account, but that's goes against the grain of MLM!
If she sees your point and agrees, but wants to continue pursuing the MLM, fine I'd leave her to learn her own lessons and ask that on our dates she didn't reference them at all on social media.
If she doesn't see your point, starts huffing about not supporting her in her dream or whatever, then I'd honestly decide she's just not for me. There's bloody loads of decent women out there.
Unless of course you unconditionally love her and will support her every whim, to the potential detriment of your career. Which judging from your OP, you don't.
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