Experiences of different boat makes.
Discussion
Obviously Oyster would be nice but what are people's experiences of boats like Bavaria, Benateau and Jeaneau?
Looking at something like Sun Odessey 44DS to spend 6 months a year on in the Med come retirement.
Would not charter it out, so interested in people's experiences regarding annual costs, what breaks and what doesn't.
Looking at something like Sun Odessey 44DS to spend 6 months a year on in the Med come retirement.
Would not charter it out, so interested in people's experiences regarding annual costs, what breaks and what doesn't.
I've crewed a chartered Bavaria a few times and wasn't that impressed to be honest. Comfortable and reasonably well kitted out but didn't sail that well and things broke fairly easily (eg pulled the traveller off the coach house roof on a 38!). I got the impression they are built for sitting around rather than sailing 
I have also sailed a sunfast 36 a few times and preferred it to the bavarias although that was a while ago so I am working from my memory of how they sailed rather than its comfort etc.
I have also sailed a sunfast 36 a few times and preferred it to the bavarias although that was a while ago so I am working from my memory of how they sailed rather than its comfort etc.
A friend has a Northwind 50 that I used to sail on before he left 2months ago with his wife to travel the med for a few years. I think I’ll let them settle into routine before joining them next year for a sail. http://viridiancruising.blogspot.co.uk
The boat is great to sail in all conditions and we often sailed 2 handed with ease, whilst also providing great living space below deck.
My usual steed is a swan65 which I’d love to sail in the med however for your needs and most ports is just too big.
I chartered a Bavaria40 cruiser in Croatia last year and was dissapointed with it, I found it not as nice to sail 2 handed as the larger Northwind.
And this year we chartered a Dufour 460grand large in Croatia, probably one of the best modern yachts I’ve been on, surprisingly no bow thruster which whilst no real issues sailing 2 handed makes parking that bit easier but this can be specified. The living space was great and adjustable and the rear deck space was good with a sun bed built in and space for a BBQ to be built in if required.
We went on the smaller 40ft variant at the Southampton Boat Show and were as impressed.
The boat is great to sail in all conditions and we often sailed 2 handed with ease, whilst also providing great living space below deck.
My usual steed is a swan65 which I’d love to sail in the med however for your needs and most ports is just too big.
I chartered a Bavaria40 cruiser in Croatia last year and was dissapointed with it, I found it not as nice to sail 2 handed as the larger Northwind.
And this year we chartered a Dufour 460grand large in Croatia, probably one of the best modern yachts I’ve been on, surprisingly no bow thruster which whilst no real issues sailing 2 handed makes parking that bit easier but this can be specified. The living space was great and adjustable and the rear deck space was good with a sun bed built in and space for a BBQ to be built in if required.
We went on the smaller 40ft variant at the Southampton Boat Show and were as impressed.
NickCQ said:
brman said:
pulled the traveller off the coach house roof on a 38!
Sounds like you were over-canvassed Being a charter boat it could already have been damaged I guess but looking at the mounting (as an engineer) I was shocked how feeble it was.
Thanks for the replies, I have ordered tickets to the boat show so will use that for a look around but still people's own experiences are invaluable.
I think 54ft is as big as we would want , not to big for many ports in the Med but plenty of space for 4-6 people and manageable for 2.
I have a feeling I will enjoy this search.
I think 54ft is as big as we would want , not to big for many ports in the Med but plenty of space for 4-6 people and manageable for 2.
I have a feeling I will enjoy this search.
Bavaria, Benateau and Jeaneau are all 'med' type boats (now) built by accountants. Thin fibreglass and the cupboard doors open easier depending on which heel you are on.
All depends how much money you want to spend/age of boat/where you want to take it/what you want to do with it.
Oyster/Swan/Amel/Grand Soleil are all premium brands that have their followers and are well regarded.
All depends how much money you want to spend/age of boat/where you want to take it/what you want to do with it.
Oyster/Swan/Amel/Grand Soleil are all premium brands that have their followers and are well regarded.
My brother is a shipwright so I just asked him, he said to avoid Bavaria's, says they're the ikea of boats.
Apparently Beneteau and Jeanneau aren't as bad but have compromises.
He loves Swans and X-yachts, reckons they're the best to work on and sail, with awesome build quality.
Went on to tell me a long boring story about screwing into a thick stringer on a Swan, only to find out it was actually just fibreglass and he'd missed the stringer. I deduced from this that Swan's are really well made.
He's in Australia but if you wanted to drop him an email his company is Windward Mark Marine Services.
Apparently Beneteau and Jeanneau aren't as bad but have compromises.
He loves Swans and X-yachts, reckons they're the best to work on and sail, with awesome build quality.
Went on to tell me a long boring story about screwing into a thick stringer on a Swan, only to find out it was actually just fibreglass and he'd missed the stringer. I deduced from this that Swan's are really well made.
He's in Australia but if you wanted to drop him an email his company is Windward Mark Marine Services.
Thanks Robin, Bavaria is now ruled out, what you say matches so many reports I have heard and when looking over a few I have been shocked by the poor construction.
I have spoken to a few sailing schools who use Benateau/Jeaneau as boats for instruction their comments are that they are good dependable boats that while not an Oyster are more than good enough.
Boat show in September for me and then set a target list and go shopping, I guess it will take a couple of years to get the right boat but no rush.
I have spoken to a few sailing schools who use Benateau/Jeaneau as boats for instruction their comments are that they are good dependable boats that while not an Oyster are more than good enough.
Boat show in September for me and then set a target list and go shopping, I guess it will take a couple of years to get the right boat but no rush.
I'd take a closer look at Hanse, but would avoid Beneteau and Jeanneau. Nothing really wrong with them as such (I lived on my Jeanneau for about a year all told), but if you're long-terming, I'd treat yourself to the next step up.
X-Yachts, Hanse, (maybe even Dufour as a similar priced Bendytoy/Jeanneau alternative).
I'm biased because I own one, but also take a look at Elan yachts. Great headroom in the cabins, comfortable, fast, stable, well built cruisers.
X-Yachts, Hanse, (maybe even Dufour as a similar priced Bendytoy/Jeanneau alternative).
I'm biased because I own one, but also take a look at Elan yachts. Great headroom in the cabins, comfortable, fast, stable, well built cruisers.
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
Me? On the Sense55 ?
Of course . Can't wait for it to come - this year is a first with 3 couples, two people have never been before so this is about as comfortable as it gets !
Yes you, have a ball;-)Of course . Can't wait for it to come - this year is a first with 3 couples, two people have never been before so this is about as comfortable as it gets !
Please report back, we are interested in the Adriatic for next year or the year after.
Bavaria get a lot of stick but ultimately they are built to a price and I think represent fair value, which is reflected in their popularity amongst the charter boats.
If you are cruising the Med then you should put together a list of your intended destinations and do some research as you might be surprised to find that a 2.5m+ draft may restrict you quite a lot in countries like Greece, Turkey and even Croatia.
Something with a shallow draft keel then starts to make more sense even if it isn't the last word in sailing performance. Or even just give up on your sailing credibility altogether and buy a catamaran....
Having said that, the new generation of fast carbon cats with lifting rudders and daggerboards might just be the best solution to this, budget allowing of course.
If you are cruising the Med then you should put together a list of your intended destinations and do some research as you might be surprised to find that a 2.5m+ draft may restrict you quite a lot in countries like Greece, Turkey and even Croatia.
Something with a shallow draft keel then starts to make more sense even if it isn't the last word in sailing performance. Or even just give up on your sailing credibility altogether and buy a catamaran....
Having said that, the new generation of fast carbon cats with lifting rudders and daggerboards might just be the best solution to this, budget allowing of course.
maser_spyder said:
I'd take a closer look at Hanse, but would avoid Beneteau and Jeanneau. Nothing really wrong with them as such (I lived on my Jeanneau for about a year all told), but if you're long-terming, I'd treat yourself to the next step up.
I regularly sail a Jeanneau 45 and I must concur they are built to a budget and personally I don't think the handling is particularly great, and I have a list of issues with how they have been designed which at times seems a completely illogical layout. But then like people have mentioned they are 'built by accountants' not sailors. @ OP
I think you need to visit all the boats at the show instead of listening to people who don't really know what they are talking about.
There a few simple facts.
Oyster/ Swan etc are very expensive for what they are and imo over priced, particularly when used.
The French boats are built to lower quality than the Germans (l can show you hull samples if you like). The amount of basic spec and the quality of the items of the French boats is lower than their German counterparts for a higher price.
What you aren't being told in here is the reason hulls are getting thinner. It called infusion. The hulls are thinner but stronger and therefore lighter = better performance.
Seriously. Have a look for yourself rather than listening to well meaning people who genuinely don't have a clue.
Sorry everyone, it's true though.
Ben
I think you need to visit all the boats at the show instead of listening to people who don't really know what they are talking about.
There a few simple facts.
Oyster/ Swan etc are very expensive for what they are and imo over priced, particularly when used.
The French boats are built to lower quality than the Germans (l can show you hull samples if you like). The amount of basic spec and the quality of the items of the French boats is lower than their German counterparts for a higher price.
What you aren't being told in here is the reason hulls are getting thinner. It called infusion. The hulls are thinner but stronger and therefore lighter = better performance.
Seriously. Have a look for yourself rather than listening to well meaning people who genuinely don't have a clue.
Sorry everyone, it's true though.
Ben
Sealine South said:
@ OP
I think you need to visit all the boats at the show instead of listening to people who don't really know what they are talking about.
There a few simple facts.
Oyster/ Swan etc are very expensive for what they are and imo over priced, particularly when used.
The French boats are built to lower quality than the Germans (l can show you hull samples if you like). The amount of basic spec and the quality of the items of the French boats is lower than their German counterparts for a higher price.
What you aren't being told in here is the reason hulls are getting thinner. It called infusion. The hulls are thinner but stronger and therefore lighter = better performance.
Seriously. Have a look for yourself rather than listening to well meaning people who genuinely don't have a clue.
Sorry everyone, it's true though.
Ben
Ben, you talk about simple facts and then in the next sentenc you describe it as your honest opinion, can't be both!I think you need to visit all the boats at the show instead of listening to people who don't really know what they are talking about.
There a few simple facts.
Oyster/ Swan etc are very expensive for what they are and imo over priced, particularly when used.
The French boats are built to lower quality than the Germans (l can show you hull samples if you like). The amount of basic spec and the quality of the items of the French boats is lower than their German counterparts for a higher price.
What you aren't being told in here is the reason hulls are getting thinner. It called infusion. The hulls are thinner but stronger and therefore lighter = better performance.
Seriously. Have a look for yourself rather than listening to well meaning people who genuinely don't have a clue.
Sorry everyone, it's true though.
Ben
You are a Bavaria authorised dealer so I'm not surprised you are coming to the defence of the German brands, which BTW I think are very good for their intended purpose.
Most of the posters above are sharing personal experience, I think you need to respect that, rather than just saying they don't have a clue. Some of these people might be prospective clients of yours
This is always the problem with sticking your head above the parapet!
I know some people are talking from personal experience and that's fine but.....they say it with such ferver that I am sure those who dont know better (they are asking for advice don't forget) believe it.
Comments from owners of DS whatever's are perfectly fine, of course they are. They actually own them.
To be honest it comparing a Rolls or Bentley to a VW or Citroen. You get what you pay for. Same engines. Same nav gear. Same sails. Same rig........same bloody gel coat manufacturers. In the end if you want, or can only afford, a production boat the French and Germans are your options. The amount of people out there who say Bavarias are bad are simply wrong, and I TRULY believe that. I'll see dozens of the French boats every year of all sorts of years. Fact is, on a survey, they have more issues than a Bavaria.
True, a Bavaria isn't a Swan. A VW golf isn't a Ghost. What it is is a very capable family cruiser that will last far longer than any of the sailors who try to break it.
if people want to buy a s
tty old 38 foot Oyster for 85k go ahead, the costs to be incurred are eye watering along the way. Go buy a 3 year old 34 production boat and enjoy it rather than spending all your time and money fixing the bloody thing.
This is the problem with forums, and the boat industry. Too many armchair experts, I'm no boating god but I've been doing it for nearly 20 years and I know a bit about it.
Dealers, brokers, whatever you want to call them, get a hard time. Just remember though, they've seen most of it and know what they are talking about. Sure, some will be biased , you need to accept that. I for one sell dozens of Bavarias, Beneteaus, Hanse's etc a year. I don't slag anything off, I just say it as it is.
Rant over.
And by the way, yes I am a Bavaria dealer. The largest dealer in the world. We sell far more Bavarias in a year in the UK than the other dealers combined. Bavarias can't be that bad......
Happy boat shopping.
I know some people are talking from personal experience and that's fine but.....they say it with such ferver that I am sure those who dont know better (they are asking for advice don't forget) believe it.
Comments from owners of DS whatever's are perfectly fine, of course they are. They actually own them.
To be honest it comparing a Rolls or Bentley to a VW or Citroen. You get what you pay for. Same engines. Same nav gear. Same sails. Same rig........same bloody gel coat manufacturers. In the end if you want, or can only afford, a production boat the French and Germans are your options. The amount of people out there who say Bavarias are bad are simply wrong, and I TRULY believe that. I'll see dozens of the French boats every year of all sorts of years. Fact is, on a survey, they have more issues than a Bavaria.
True, a Bavaria isn't a Swan. A VW golf isn't a Ghost. What it is is a very capable family cruiser that will last far longer than any of the sailors who try to break it.
if people want to buy a s
tty old 38 foot Oyster for 85k go ahead, the costs to be incurred are eye watering along the way. Go buy a 3 year old 34 production boat and enjoy it rather than spending all your time and money fixing the bloody thing. This is the problem with forums, and the boat industry. Too many armchair experts, I'm no boating god but I've been doing it for nearly 20 years and I know a bit about it.
Dealers, brokers, whatever you want to call them, get a hard time. Just remember though, they've seen most of it and know what they are talking about. Sure, some will be biased , you need to accept that. I for one sell dozens of Bavarias, Beneteaus, Hanse's etc a year. I don't slag anything off, I just say it as it is.
Rant over.
And by the way, yes I am a Bavaria dealer. The largest dealer in the world. We sell far more Bavarias in a year in the UK than the other dealers combined. Bavarias can't be that bad......
Happy boat shopping.
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