Claiming against a deceased sole trader.

Claiming against a deceased sole trader.

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Discussion

GuitarPlayer63

Original Poster:

198 posts

148 months

Monday 24th July 2017
quotequote all
My girlfriend’s dad passed away 12 months ago. He was a sole trader in an antique repair business.
About five or six years ago he repaired a customers antique. At the time he offered a five year guarantee. I believe that the guarantee was probably verbal, though may have had the words “Guarantee” on the receipt provided (given the receipt was probably hand written, I cannot imagine there would have been a list of terms and exclusions).

In the years after the repair, the customer came back a few times claiming the goods were not repaired properly and each time, the repairer did his best to make the good the situation.

Now, 12 months after his death, the customer is demanding a refund for the full amount of the original repair from the departed traders wife, he's written demanding a full refund and has now written again saying he's disappointed he's not had a response (I think he might be a retired solicitor).

The question is: as the repairer was a sole trader and the business no longer exists, is there any case to answer by anyone?

I’m struggling a bit personally with the fact the repair / complaint situation had been going on for five years or so and the customer to our knowledge never took action against him. I get the impression he is trying is luck with a vulnerable old lady thinking she’ll pay him off.

Is it possible to claim against a sole trader’s estate?

Eddieslofart

1,328 posts

82 months

Monday 24th July 2017
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Send claimant to the cemetary....

rich888

2,610 posts

198 months

Monday 24th July 2017
quotequote all
Ask him for a copy of the 5 year guarantee...

Markbarry1977

4,028 posts

102 months

Tuesday 25th July 2017
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I'm not a lawyer so take this with a pinch of salt.

I'd explain that the business is now closed and that the owner is now deceased and that if he wishes to peruse it any further then provide him an address for the cemetery and a plot number.

Advise him any further communications on this matter will be ignored.

What a heartless git chasing someone's dead old wife for a repair carried out 6 years ago. Shameful.

Sa Calobra

37,010 posts

210 months

Tuesday 25th July 2017
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He was a sole trader who is no longer trading.


JQ

5,692 posts

178 months

Tuesday 25th July 2017
quotequote all
Markbarry1977 said:
What a heartless git chasing someone's dead old wife for a repair carried out 6 years ago. Shameful.
There really are some unbelievable people out there.

The Mad Monk

10,474 posts

116 months

Tuesday 25th July 2017
quotequote all
JQ said:
Markbarry1977 said:
What a heartless git chasing someone's dead old wife for a repair carried out 6 years ago. Shameful.
There really are some unbelievable people out there.
Yes. Yes.

But what is the answer to the question? Never mind all the bleeding hearts.

IANAL, but I suggest he pursues the deceased's estate. Probably after 12 months the books are closed. Point him at the dead bloke's lawyers.

johnao

667 posts

242 months

Tuesday 25th July 2017
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GuitarPlayer63 said:
...

Is it possible to claim against a sole trader’s estate?
Twelve months after the date of death and, presumably, everything going to the surviving spouse, I would assume that the deceased's estate has by now been distributed. So, there is no estate to claim against.

A polite letter to that effect would surely bring an end to this rather inappropriate action.

98elise

26,376 posts

160 months

Tuesday 25th July 2017
quotequote all
Markbarry1977 said:
I'm not a lawyer so take this with a pinch of salt.

I'd explain that the business is now closed and that the owner is now deceased and that if he wishes to peruse it any further then provide him an address for the cemetery and a plot number.

Advise him any further communications on this matter will be ignored.

What a heartless git chasing someone's dead old wife for a repair carried out 6 years ago. Shameful.
Agreed. I hope a lawyer backs this up shortly.

bad company

18,484 posts

265 months

Tuesday 25th July 2017
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I would say that in theory the buyer could make a claim against the estate. In practice this would be difficult so I would advise him to jog on.

TwistingMyMelon

6,385 posts

204 months

Tuesday 25th July 2017
quotequote all
Was he actually a sole trader and not operating as a LTD double check that as you can be a one man band operating that way

I would take some legal advice on how to proceed, as this could happen again, I cant see it costing much

superlightr

12,842 posts

262 months

Tuesday 25th July 2017
quotequote all
so a person dies (sole trader)- their estate is responsible for paying debts of that person and collecting money that is owed to that person. being dead does note wipe the slate clean for the claims or money owed to them (or their estate)

The claim should be defended or agreed as if the person was still alive.

What is the item said to have a guarantee on and sum being claimed? Any proof supporting the claim?





GuitarPlayer63

Original Poster:

198 posts

148 months

Tuesday 25th July 2017
quotequote all
Thanks for the answers so far.

To answer the various questions:

He was definitely a sole trader.

I'd prefer not to get specific with what the item is as few people are in that particular line. It is an antique though.

The claim is for the full amount of the original repair several years ago; his letter is demanding a complete refund.

I've not seen sight of the "guarantee" offered and it seems like a good one to request evidence on. What I don't want to do though is give this person oxygen in the belief they think they're going to get somewhere, since they're retired I suspect they have plenty of time on their hands...

98elise

26,376 posts

160 months

Tuesday 25th July 2017
quotequote all
superlightr said:
so a person dies (sole trader)- their estate is responsible for paying debts of that person and collecting money that is owed to that person. being dead does note wipe the slate clean for the claims or money owed to them (or their estate)

The claim should be defended or agreed as if the person was still alive.

What is the item said to have a guarantee on and sum being claimed? Any proof supporting the claim?

How can a dead man defend a claim?

The person is trying to make a what sounds like a dubious warranty claim against a business/person that no longer exists. If there was money already owning then yes it should be paid, but this sounds like a chancer.

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 25th July 2017
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1) Is it within 6 years of the original work?

and anyway...

2) Let's say he manages to win a claim against the estate. What assets does the estate have? How is the money that is no longer part of the estate going to be collected or judgment enforced?

It's a load of nonsense.

NDA

21,488 posts

224 months

Tuesday 25th July 2017
quotequote all
Who are the solicitors who handled Probate for the father of your GF? Can they be handed these letters?

I would have thought the letters should be 'returned to sender' as the intended recipient doesn't exist anymore.

superlightr

12,842 posts

262 months

Tuesday 25th July 2017
quotequote all
98elise said:
superlightr said:
so a person dies (sole trader)- their estate is responsible for paying debts of that person and collecting money that is owed to that person. being dead does note wipe the slate clean for the claims or money owed to them (or their estate)

The claim should be defended or agreed as if the person was still alive.

What is the item said to have a guarantee on and sum being claimed? Any proof supporting the claim?

How can a dead man defend a claim?

The person is trying to make a what sounds like a dubious warranty claim against a business/person that no longer exists. If there was money already owning then yes it should be paid, but this sounds like a chancer.
who knows if its dubious or not. The dead mans estate defends or agrees any liabilities or debts, clearly not the departed. (RIP) - I could have said that clearer perhaps? perhaps not?

The debt or liability does not simply vanish. Say you bought and sold bicycles, you do really well, you make a profit and then you die. Do you think HMRC will write off your debt to them just because you are dead? Do you think the frame producers will write off the credit they have given you before you died? Do you think joe blogs who bought a bike you put together with a 6 year guarantee may not have a claim if the bike falls apart/fails? No - your estate is liable for the debts/guarantees you have incurred or issued.


I don't think its a hard concept to understand?

If the estate has any money that's another question.

Sheepshanks

32,531 posts

118 months

Tuesday 25th July 2017
quotequote all
bad company said:
I would say that in theory the buyer could make a claim against the estate. In practice this would be difficult so I would advise him to jog on.
He could claim against the Executor(s) if they didn't do their job properly. Did they advertise his demise?

How much is at stake here?

NDA

21,488 posts

224 months

Tuesday 25th July 2017
quotequote all
98elise said:
How can a dead man defend a claim?
A guarantee doesn't necessarily die with the guarantor - but you'd have to look at the wording of the guarantee. I suspect no physical guarantee exists and therefore this is all just puffery from a former customer.

The solicitors who handled the probate would be first port of call I should think - failing that just return the letters as undeliverable and let this guy do the leg work.

mgv8

1,631 posts

270 months

Tuesday 25th July 2017
quotequote all
Dose he know the owner is dead?
How was the shop closed?