Employer undercharged - would estoppal apply here?
Discussion
...or estoppel even 
Hi, I was hoping for some legal opinions on a situation my wife has found herself in.
tl;dr: Her employer has seemingly failed to deduct the correct amount for their car parking scheme and want £800+ to address the deficit between what my wife has paid and what they claim she should have paid.
Her employer deducts a pretty nominal amount from her gross salary, in return for which, she is allowed to nominate and use one of the employer's car parks. Originally she paid something like £10/month (like I said, nominal fee!) to park in an open car park a long way from her office. Just over two years ago, she changed her nominated car park to a more convenient and more expensive multi-storey one. Incidentally, she also changed her working hours slightly at the same time which may have muddied the waters.
Her payslip simply states 'parking charge' and lists an hourly rate x 37 hrs = £15. Insofar as she thought about it at all, my wife believed this was the weekly charge: £15 gross = roughly £45 net/month which is the fee associated with this car park on the employer's intranet. Each year, she has renewed her pass online, which involves providing her payroll number and explicitly stating which type of pass she requires. These have all been processed by the employer and the pass has continued to allow access throughout.
The employer's payroll dept. have recently contacted her say she has been underpaying and are demanding £800+ which they claim is the difference between what she has paid and what she should have paid.
When she explained she was unaware there was an issue, payroll told her she should have checked:
Where does she stand?
Hi, I was hoping for some legal opinions on a situation my wife has found herself in.
tl;dr: Her employer has seemingly failed to deduct the correct amount for their car parking scheme and want £800+ to address the deficit between what my wife has paid and what they claim she should have paid.
Her employer deducts a pretty nominal amount from her gross salary, in return for which, she is allowed to nominate and use one of the employer's car parks. Originally she paid something like £10/month (like I said, nominal fee!) to park in an open car park a long way from her office. Just over two years ago, she changed her nominated car park to a more convenient and more expensive multi-storey one. Incidentally, she also changed her working hours slightly at the same time which may have muddied the waters.
Her payslip simply states 'parking charge' and lists an hourly rate x 37 hrs = £15. Insofar as she thought about it at all, my wife believed this was the weekly charge: £15 gross = roughly £45 net/month which is the fee associated with this car park on the employer's intranet. Each year, she has renewed her pass online, which involves providing her payroll number and explicitly stating which type of pass she requires. These have all been processed by the employer and the pass has continued to allow access throughout.
The employer's payroll dept. have recently contacted her say she has been underpaying and are demanding £800+ which they claim is the difference between what she has paid and what she should have paid.
When she explained she was unaware there was an issue, payroll told her she should have checked:
- her payslip (she checked, it simply states 'parking charge', no location or detail)
- the Ts&Cs of the parking pass scheme (she checked, there is no cost listed)
- what was written on her car parking pass (she checked, it's a white plastic mag-strip card with nothing at all written on it)
- what was written on the confirmation email she received when she renewed each year (she checked, it simply thanks her for the information she provided and states that the pass has been renewed. No mention of the cost or the type of pass.
Where does she stand?
Edited by Risotto on Thursday 27th July 13:41
Countdown said:
Can I just check - so effectively her monthly payslip said £15 was being deducted (although the Company's Intranet said the charge was £45pcm) and your wife assumed that the payslip meant £15/week?
I'm getting all this second hand from her but I suspect so. The idea that the employer might decide to list weekly charges on her payslip isn't as outlandish as it may sound given that, as a result of her working compressed hours, they have decided to administer her annual leave in minutes.Countdown said:
ETA - is this NHS or another Public Sector employer by any chance?
Got it in one.Risotto said:
Countdown said:
ETA - is this NHS or another Public Sector employer by any chance?
Got it in one.It would be reasonable to say that Estoppel does apply but (depending on how aggressive her Finance Dept. are) her Employer might disagree. I would suggest approaching it as follows;
1. Speak to Union Rep. It's not your wife's fault and she shouldn't be penalised. therefore the arrears should be written off.
2. If Employer doesn't agree then try to come to some kind of compromise - eg agree to pay 50% of the outstanding amount.
3. If Employer still doesn't agree you might wish to negotiate an extended repayment period (say 3 - 5 years)?
If you want to play hardball then you could refuse to make ANY repayment. If they still deduct from her pay then your wife would need to submit a grievance and if that failed she would need to take them to tribunal (for unlawful deduction of wages). her contract probably says that overpayments are recoverable but she could argue that this wasn't an overpayment.
As always with these things there are several routes you can go down depending on how much effort you're willing to put in.
Over what time frame?
Using the OP's figures, an undercharge of £800 means that they have been deducting at the wrong rate for over two years! Somebody somewhere is failing at their job. If it is the NHS, this appears to be just another example of the malaise we keep hearing about. On the brink of collapse with staff morale at an all time low.
Using the OP's figures, an undercharge of £800 means that they have been deducting at the wrong rate for over two years! Somebody somewhere is failing at their job. If it is the NHS, this appears to be just another example of the malaise we keep hearing about. On the brink of collapse with staff morale at an all time low.
Red Devil said:
Over what time frame?
Using the OP's figures, an undercharge of £800 means that they have been deducting at the wrong rate for over two years! Somebody somewhere is failing at their job. If it is the NHS, this appears to be just another example of the malaise we keep hearing about. On the brink of collapse with staff morale at an all time low.
Malaise or incompetence? Using the OP's figures, an undercharge of £800 means that they have been deducting at the wrong rate for over two years! Somebody somewhere is failing at their job. If it is the NHS, this appears to be just another example of the malaise we keep hearing about. On the brink of collapse with staff morale at an all time low.
Vaud said:
Red Devil said:
Over what time frame?
Using the OP's figures, an undercharge of £800 means that they have been deducting at the wrong rate for over two years! Somebody somewhere is failing at their job. If it is the NHS, this appears to be just another example of the malaise we keep hearing about. On the brink of collapse with staff morale at an all time low.
Malaise or incompetence? Using the OP's figures, an undercharge of £800 means that they have been deducting at the wrong rate for over two years! Somebody somewhere is failing at their job. If it is the NHS, this appears to be just another example of the malaise we keep hearing about. On the brink of collapse with staff morale at an all time low.
k, or hiring those of low calibre in the first place thereby planting the seeds of a vicious cycle. Either way a race to the bottom.Red Devil said:
Vaud said:
Red Devil said:
Over what time frame?
Using the OP's figures, an undercharge of £800 means that they have been deducting at the wrong rate for over two years! Somebody somewhere is failing at their job. If it is the NHS, this appears to be just another example of the malaise we keep hearing about. On the brink of collapse with staff morale at an all time low.
Malaise or incompetence? Using the OP's figures, an undercharge of £800 means that they have been deducting at the wrong rate for over two years! Somebody somewhere is failing at their job. If it is the NHS, this appears to be just another example of the malaise we keep hearing about. On the brink of collapse with staff morale at an all time low.
k, or hiring those of low calibre in the first place thereby planting the seeds of a vicious cycle. Either way a race to the bottom.When working as a union rep, I had this kind of accounting error in payslips come up more than once. It's a long time ago now, but I did research the legal position at the time, and at the back of my mind I have the idea that if the overpayment was not the employee's fault, and could not be reasonably expected to have noticed it, then the money stays with the employee. Even if it has to be repaid, then repayment should be made at a mutually acceptable rate.
Don't agree to pay back anything at this stage. Get advice from your union, if you are a member. If the local rep is a waste of time (as happens) then go over their head.
This Unison document describes how Estoppel can be relevant.
http://unisonwestsussex.org.uk/news/overpayments/
Don't agree to pay back anything at this stage. Get advice from your union, if you are a member. If the local rep is a waste of time (as happens) then go over their head.
This Unison document describes how Estoppel can be relevant.
http://unisonwestsussex.org.uk/news/overpayments/
The collection of an accidental overpayment of wages is one of the circumstances where an employer can make deductions from an employee's pay.
Speak to your union rep and arrange a meeting with the manager. A mutually acceptable timescale for repayment is the usual solution.
https://www.gov.uk/understanding-your-pay/deductio...
http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4125
Speak to your union rep and arrange a meeting with the manager. A mutually acceptable timescale for repayment is the usual solution.
https://www.gov.uk/understanding-your-pay/deductio...
http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4125
MoggieMinor said:
The collection of an accidental overpayment of wages is one of the circumstances where an employer can make deductions from an employee's pay.
That seems to be true but there's little information around as to whether under-charging on the part of the employer falls into the same category.In the interests of providing a conclusion for anyone who might be in a similar situation, the employer has announced they're intending to deduct £90 a month until the debt is paid.
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