Private parking signs
Discussion
Insert Coin said:
Steve, you clearly know far more than me about how these people operate, but from my point of view they provide a service that keeps my tenants happy which in turn stops them from moaning at me about not being able to park their cars.
When I first contacted my enforcement guys I assumed they would be there within 5 minutes putting up flimsy signs and ticketing everything in sight.
In actual fact I needed to provide proof that I was the landowner and I believe they then had to register the sites with somebody else (The IPC?), they then did a site visit and knocked on doors and leafleted every flat explaining they were taking on the parking management of each block. Signs were put up where required and permits issued to those people that were authorised to park.
I can't fault them so far, it's been circa 6 months.
I am bringing a case against a horizon for ticketing me a in car park that they did not even have landowner authority.When I first contacted my enforcement guys I assumed they would be there within 5 minutes putting up flimsy signs and ticketing everything in sight.
In actual fact I needed to provide proof that I was the landowner and I believe they then had to register the sites with somebody else (The IPC?), they then did a site visit and knocked on doors and leafleted every flat explaining they were taking on the parking management of each block. Signs were put up where required and permits issued to those people that were authorised to park.
I can't fault them so far, it's been circa 6 months.
I got a double dip ticket from a services and the landowner settled with me rather than I take them to court. Not the parking firm the landowner gave me a payout as I pointed out they were liable for the ticket issued on their land.
A lot of landowners think they can can sign a PPC and leav it whereas if the PPC cock up the land owner can find themself in hot water.
TooMany2cvs said:
The Mad Monk said:
SantaBarbara said:
There is a large sculpture of John Lennon in Liverpool airport
Why?Go back a step.
Why is Liverpool Airport called John Lennon Airport?
S11Steve said:
The Surveyor said:
Steve
Knowing your in-depth experience with these, is that sign enforceable?
I've personally never had one get as far as a hearing, but as that is a generic sign that VCS use at many locations. I know it has been successfully challenged as a defence point at a number of county court hearings by my fleet customers.Knowing your in-depth experience with these, is that sign enforceable?
I don't do IAS or POPLA appeals anymore, instead I put in all my defence points in as a first appeal to the operator. I've yet to find one of these go as far as a court claim - I'm pretty certain that it wouldn't look good for them to pursue a charge that far when a judge is likely to make the same call as I made in my initial appeal.
The Mad Monk said:
Ok then.
Go back a step.
Why is Liverpool Airport called John Lennon Airport?
I can't begin to imagine why Liverpool airport is named after one of the most globally famous people to be born, brought up, start their career in and generally be associated with Liverpool.Go back a step.
Why is Liverpool Airport called John Lennon Airport?
Surely a more sensible question along these lines is why Doncaster airport was ever called Robin Hood...
TooMany2cvs said:
The Mad Monk said:
Ok then.
Go back a step.
Why is Liverpool Airport called John Lennon Airport?
I can't begin to imagine why Liverpool airport is named after one of the most globally famous people to be born, brought up, start their career in and generally be associated with Liverpool.Go back a step.
Why is Liverpool Airport called John Lennon Airport?
Surely a more sensible question along these lines is why Doncaster airport was ever called Robin Hood...
We don't call Heathrow, Freddie Mercury Airport - he grew up in Feltham. We don't call Heathrow, Betty Windsor Airport - she has a weekend place nearby.
John Lennon couldn't wait to move away as soon as he got the chance.
Why call airports after people, anyway?
Edited by The Mad Monk on Friday 25th August 08:59
PurpleMoonlight said:
Ah, okay.
I'll update when I know more how it's going to work.
You don't know how it's going to work yet you instigated this?! Looks like it's something you may come to regret........I'll update when I know more how it's going to work.
"I have been badgering the managing agents for the site to do something about it. This is their response."
REALIST123 said:
You don't know how it's going to work yet you instigated this?! Looks like it's something you may come to regret........
"I have been badgering the managing agents for the site to do something about it. This is their response."
We shall see. "I have been badgering the managing agents for the site to do something about it. This is their response."
But with no anpr it's going to be tenants doing the reporting or a mobile emforcement. As long as I display my permit I shouldn't incurr any problems.
REALIST123 said:
You don't know how it's going to work yet you instigated this?! Looks like it's something you may come to regret........
"I have been badgering the managing agents for the site to do something about it. This is their response."
Not many people saw the recent documentary where a managing gent brought and IPC company and ticket everyone including the tenants, lease holders and the landowner. Said they had cancelled the tickets and then get solicitors letters I was cracking up."I have been badgering the managing agents for the site to do something about it. This is their response."
it was on ITV a couple of weeks back.
Another IPC operator running a hospital car park managed to delay issuing a permit to a nurse who changed her car (reg in the permit) and staff said your ok. She ended up paying nearly 3k in fines just before she got her knew home as she was terrified it would effect her morgage application.
She still has several about 2k of pending fines in dispute.
When you realise BPA and IPC are members clubs and the codes of conduct a voluntary and 99% not enforced (Except the odd case like a operator found doctoring time stamps on photos and was found out a a journalist and outed them in the media).
This is response form the BPA when I complained I was issued a ticket in retail car park that was leased by a private company and these clown said they worked for tesco next door!
They don't want to know and even if you report as a member of the public they don't want to know and just have a code and can't enforce it!
"As a membership association we are only able to address enquiries in relation to alleged non-compliance with the BPA Code of Practice. We are not set up to deal with disputes from the general public about parking or control. Nor are we a regulatory body. Therefore, the Code does not provide a way for a driver to challenge how a landowner or operator has applied parking control and enforcement on private land. Any challenge or appeal is a matter for the landowners or operators procedure, with the option of taking it to POPLA, and or the courts. We will not get involved in the arbitration of a dispute between an operator and an individual.
We note you advise you did not receive a copy of the appeal outcome. Unfortunately we are unable to ascertain whether mail (or an email) has or has not been sent or received by either party. As it is not currently a requirement of the Code that the operator sends mail using recorded delivery (or requests a delivery receipt for an email), we cannot advise there to be a breach of the Code.
Please note that as a membership association we do not have the authority to address issues relating to information provided by The DVLA (and or their processes), Subject Access Requests, The Data Protection Act or accusations fraudulent activity. These matters should be brought to the attention of the relevant organisations to enable further investigation."
The Mad Monk said:
Well....
We don't call Heathrow, Freddie Mercury Airport - he grew up in Feltham. We don't call Heathrow, Betty Windsor Airport - she has a weekend place nearby.
John Lennon couldn't wait to move away as soon as he got the chance.
Why call airports after people, anyway?
Manchester airport could be named Wayne Rooney International after one of Manchester Utd greatest playersWe don't call Heathrow, Freddie Mercury Airport - he grew up in Feltham. We don't call Heathrow, Betty Windsor Airport - she has a weekend place nearby.
John Lennon couldn't wait to move away as soon as he got the chance.
Why call airports after people, anyway?
Edited by The Mad Monk on Friday 25th August 08:59
So we have a long thread about the merits or not of car parking companies and how to get out of tickets they issue. Of course in the OPs case the problem wouldnt exist if people didnt park in his allocated spaces in the first place.
Its generally speaking not rocket science parking a car, you find go to the property you are visiting, if it has a car park you park in a space having checked to see if it is for visitors or what. If it has a sigh for any other property than the one you are visiting, or has a name etc you dont park in it. You also dont park outside the adjacent property unless it is clearly a general car park. If there are no spaces you then find a space on the public highway and walk pay or visit the local pay and display etc.
The parking companies only exist because a minority of people insist on parking where they shouldn't leading to complaints. Once you have a parking company then it gets worse as they have to generate revenue themselves.
Its generally speaking not rocket science parking a car, you find go to the property you are visiting, if it has a car park you park in a space having checked to see if it is for visitors or what. If it has a sigh for any other property than the one you are visiting, or has a name etc you dont park in it. You also dont park outside the adjacent property unless it is clearly a general car park. If there are no spaces you then find a space on the public highway and walk pay or visit the local pay and display etc.
The parking companies only exist because a minority of people insist on parking where they shouldn't leading to complaints. Once you have a parking company then it gets worse as they have to generate revenue themselves.
If only it was that simple, but I'm in court next week for £1600 worth of tickets issued to a number of my fleet vehicles that were parked in their own allocated bays at one location. I've already sent the proof to the parking company, and their solicitors, but they have still issued court proceedings.
It's only England and Wales that have this kind of process for dealing with parking in private land, which makes me wonder how big the problem genuinely is. 40,000 tickets a year go through the civil court system every year. What a complete waste of legal resources it is too, and most district judges I've spoken with feel the same way.
It's only England and Wales that have this kind of process for dealing with parking in private land, which makes me wonder how big the problem genuinely is. 40,000 tickets a year go through the civil court system every year. What a complete waste of legal resources it is too, and most district judges I've spoken with feel the same way.
S11Steve said:
If only it was that simple, but I'm in court next week for £1600 worth of tickets issued to a number of my fleet vehicles that were parked in their own allocated bays at one location. I've already sent the proof to the parking company, and their solicitors, but they have still issued court proceedings.
It's only England and Wales that have this kind of process for dealing with parking in private land, which makes me wonder how big the problem genuinely is. 40,000 tickets a year go through the civil court system every year. What a complete waste of legal resources it is too, and most district judges I've spoken with feel the same way.
I refer to my last paragraph that the problem is once you have the parking company they then need revenue and thats when you get mistakes whether deliberate or not.It's only England and Wales that have this kind of process for dealing with parking in private land, which makes me wonder how big the problem genuinely is. 40,000 tickets a year go through the civil court system every year. What a complete waste of legal resources it is too, and most district judges I've spoken with feel the same way.
As regards how big the problem genuinely is in my experience the employment of a parking t, shop etcoperator is the last option when all others have failed, because whilst they do tend to solve the problem they bring their own problems. I haven't been involved in property management for years but when I was parking along with office heating, was invariably the biggest issue I dealt with. I understand from colleagues that the position remains the same. Its not a problem on all properties but is on a substantial number.
When you think about it the reason is simple. When properties are constructed there are often restrictions on the number pf parking spaces allowed. The assumption being that workers can use public transport, walk, cycle, car share etc. In reality they don;t, so there is a problem from day one. Add to that the fact that in this day and age we are determined to cram more and more workers in to a property means that there aren't in many places sufficient spaces for workers let alone visitors. The same issue applies to housing developments where they seem to assume owners will only have 1 car for the 2 or 3 they really have.
Add to this the problem is that everyone wants to park within 2 ft of their destination when going to the ATM, collect takeaway, eat, shop etc. and they will park anywhere.
Obviously some landowners, tenants etc will see parking operators as a way to make money, but most landowners, occupiers are only employing them as their is a problem.
Chrisgr31 said:
S11Steve said:
If only it was that simple, but I'm in court next week for £1600 worth of tickets issued to a number of my fleet vehicles that were parked in their own allocated bays at one location. I've already sent the proof to the parking company, and their solicitors, but they have still issued court proceedings.
It's only England and Wales that have this kind of process for dealing with parking in private land, which makes me wonder how big the problem genuinely is. 40,000 tickets a year go through the civil court system every year. What a complete waste of legal resources it is too, and most district judges I've spoken with feel the same way.
I refer to my last paragraph that the problem is once you have the parking company they then need revenue and thats when you get mistakes whether deliberate or not.It's only England and Wales that have this kind of process for dealing with parking in private land, which makes me wonder how big the problem genuinely is. 40,000 tickets a year go through the civil court system every year. What a complete waste of legal resources it is too, and most district judges I've spoken with feel the same way.
As regards how big the problem genuinely is in my experience the employment of a parking t, shop etcoperator is the last option when all others have failed, because whilst they do tend to solve the problem they bring their own problems. I haven't been involved in property management for years but when I was parking along with office heating, was invariably the biggest issue I dealt with. I understand from colleagues that the position remains the same. Its not a problem on all properties but is on a substantial number.
When you think about it the reason is simple. When properties are constructed there are often restrictions on the number pf parking spaces allowed. The assumption being that workers can use public transport, walk, cycle, car share etc. In reality they don;t, so there is a problem from day one. Add to that the fact that in this day and age we are determined to cram more and more workers in to a property means that there aren't in many places sufficient spaces for workers let alone visitors. The same issue applies to housing developments where they seem to assume owners will only have 1 car for the 2 or 3 they really have.
Add to this the problem is that everyone wants to park within 2 ft of their destination when going to the ATM, collect takeaway, eat, shop etc. and they will park anywhere.
Obviously some landowners, tenants etc will see parking operators as a way to make money, but most landowners, occupiers are only employing them as their is a problem.
I used to manage an office. car park could not be easily secured, and it was well abused. As a result of the tenants unhappiness parking control was brought in (in those days clamping). I left the firm, but did agree to go back for one day to cover the phones while they had a Christmas do... One of the Tenant's a lawyer had been clamped. Spitting blood. Said his permit was in the window. Spoke to the clamper who pointed out that he had a photograph of the window and no permit... Solicitor then tells me he nipped up to the office to collect it.. Clamper produces the 2nd photo 20 minutes later.... hard to be sympathetic at that point...
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