Crash - Insurance Unaware Of Engine Swap - Consequences

Crash - Insurance Unaware Of Engine Swap - Consequences

Author
Discussion

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Monday 11th September 2017
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hijimhere said:
Its a surprise to hear your friend was injured in the smash which was probably his fault. He could be done for all manner of driving related matters - the worst being causing death by dangerous driving.
Since it sounds like the most likely candidate for the "death" bit is the muppet who caused it...

hijimhere said:
Insurers take a dim view of the stupidity (fun) of sticking a 3ltr engine in a vehicle suited to a 1.8 ltr.
It's a 3-series with a standard 3-series engine.

hijimhere said:
I don't know of any normal insurer who would cover on the road a 3 ltr modification.
<shrug> That certainly doesn't mean they don't exist... I could come up with a shortlist of likely suspects without any difficulty.

superlightr

12,842 posts

262 months

Monday 11th September 2017
quotequote all
Sea Demon said:
SantaBarbara said:
What explanation does the friend of the OP give for why the accident happened?

Was it driver error or mechanical errors
He's in an induced coma at the moment so wont be able to answer anything for a while - just going on what I've been told by his mrs
I havnt seen the OP say anything about dangerous driving or that his friend hurt or damaged anything or anybody else. At face value he modded his car and had a bad accident.

I hope the OP's friend makes a good recovery and is not crippled or has brain damage. I hope it was a only car involved incident. I hope the OP will get a chance so that he can learn from his errors.

Yes stupid to mod a car and not tell the insurers. Crash a car - fek most/a number of us have done that. Hope the guy comes out of this ok.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Monday 11th September 2017
quotequote all
superlightr said:
I havnt seen the OP say anything about dangerous driving or that his friend ... damaged anything ... else.
The legal definition of "dangerous driving" is...
The law said:
A person drives dangerously when: the way they drive falls far below the minimum acceptable standard expected of a competent and careful driver; and. it would be obvious to a competent and careful driver that driving in that way would be dangerous.
Given that he wrapped his car around the scenery (which is very unlikely to have been undamaged) well enough to do himself serious injury (probably requiring cutting him out) in a single-vehicle incident, I think it's fairly safe to say that threshold got well and truly met.

Bradley1500

766 posts

145 months

Monday 11th September 2017
quotequote all
gareth_r said:
Toyota used the same front brakes on every rear wheel drive car they made in the '90s.
Altezza/IS200/IS300
GS300/Aristo (including the twin turbo)
Soarer TT/active suspension V8 (smaller brakes on the other V8s)
LS400
Supra/Supra TT

That's quite a range of weight and power.

smile

Edited by gareth_r on Friday 8th September 12:12
No they didn't.

Back to the original question: I wrote off my car with undeclared modifications, albeit nothing as substantial as an engine swap, and luckily got away with it.

If your friend is lucky he'll get a lax inspector as I did, although it sounds like insurance hassles are the least of his worries currently.

superlightr

12,842 posts

262 months

Monday 11th September 2017
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
superlightr said:
I havnt seen the OP say anything about dangerous driving or that his friend ... damaged anything ... else.
The legal definition of "dangerous driving" is...
The law said:
A person drives dangerously when: the way they drive falls far below the minimum acceptable standard expected of a competent and careful driver; and. it would be obvious to a competent and careful driver that driving in that way would be dangerous.
Given that he wrapped his car around the scenery (which is very unlikely to have been undamaged) well enough to do himself serious injury (probably requiring cutting him out) in a single-vehicle incident, I think it's fairly safe to say that threshold got well and truly met.
you can still crash and it not be dangerous driving charge. OP hasn't said dangerous driving. Just its a crash.

IJB1959

2,139 posts

85 months

Monday 11th September 2017
quotequote all
superlightr said:
you can still crash and it not be dangerous driving charge. OP hasn't said dangerous driving. Just its a crash.
I once (many years ago) had a 5 year old second hand car written off by another driver rear ending me so hard it bent the chassis. The other drivers insurance company took into account that it had a replacement engine under the 3 year warranty when haggling over the payout with my insurance company that I never even knew about....bonus for me was I got more than expected. Someone must have checked engine number records with the DVLA along the way.

KelWedge

1,278 posts

184 months

Monday 11th September 2017
quotequote all
Bit Silly to say Least not to inform the insurance company and DVLA about the engine change, I informed my insurance company that I had changed from 3500 cc to 4600 cc and a few other (Lots) mods (including Brakes) premium increase yes about £ 25. The biggest hassle were DVLA who wanted proof of work done.
Yes me thinks if they spot it which they might not, he will have a problem.

hairyben

8,516 posts

182 months

Tuesday 12th September 2017
quotequote all
KelWedge said:
Bit Silly to say Least not to inform the insurance company and DVLA about the engine change, I informed my insurance company that I had changed from 3500 cc to 4600 cc and a few other (Lots) mods (including Brakes) premium increase yes about £ 25. The biggest hassle were DVLA who wanted proof of work done.
Yes me thinks if they spot it which they might not, he will have a problem.
Theres an order of magnitude of difference there though. Your's is within a range, his was mundane to fairly high performance. I gather the premium increase just from 325 to 330 on the bim is very significant, I expect legit insurance on the 3.0 was simply not affordable - and for good reason - there's a lot of people arguing specifics about brakes and stuff here but a 330 can coax you into using power and driving in a way a 318 simply doesn't, which is why more get crashed and they cost more to insure. I'd be surprised if the insurance weren't on this - I'm guessing the car probably had highly visual mods too like wheels etc which would prod them to look further.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Tuesday 12th September 2017
quotequote all
hairyben said:
I expect legit insurance on the 3.0 was simply not affordable - and for good reason
And let's not forget that a standard 330 would be a LOT cheaper to insure than a 318 modified to 330 spec.

InitialDave

11,851 posts

118 months

Tuesday 12th September 2017
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Assuming it's available, mind - the Compacts weren't available with the 3.0, for instance.

IJB1959

2,139 posts

85 months

Tuesday 12th September 2017
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
And let's not forget that a standard 330 would be a LOT cheaper to insure than a 318 modified to 330 spec.
Still no excuse though.

BMWBen

4,899 posts

200 months

Tuesday 12th September 2017
quotequote all
hairyben said:
KelWedge said:
Bit Silly to say Least not to inform the insurance company and DVLA about the engine change, I informed my insurance company that I had changed from 3500 cc to 4600 cc and a few other (Lots) mods (including Brakes) premium increase yes about £ 25. The biggest hassle were DVLA who wanted proof of work done.
Yes me thinks if they spot it which they might not, he will have a problem.
Theres an order of magnitude of difference there though. Your's is within a range, his was mundane to fairly high performance. I gather the premium increase just from 325 to 330 on the bim is very significant, I expect legit insurance on the 3.0 was simply not affordable - and for good reason - there's a lot of people arguing specifics about brakes and stuff here but a 330 can coax you into using power and driving in a way a 318 simply doesn't, which is why more get crashed and they cost more to insure. I'd be surprised if the insurance weren't on this - I'm guessing the car probably had highly visual mods too like wheels etc which would prod them to look further.
I actually found that a 545i was cheaper to insure than a 530i however, so its not a simple relationship between engine size and premium. It's actually about models of car and the risk they present to the insurer.

HedgeyGedgey

1,281 posts

93 months

Tuesday 12th September 2017
quotequote all
Cue the hate, but if the guys in a coma it'd have to be a pretty big shunt. I'd imagine the car is a complete wreck, the police will have impounded it to investigate if there was any mechanical failure on the vehicle ie brakes or if the driver is at fault. If the cars that kuch of a wreck is the bonnet even going to be opened? Another if and a big if, the investigator doesn't have knowledge about e46's is he really going to know the different engines they came with or is he just going to do his job and inspect the car for any mechanical failures that'd result in the car crashing. I'll go against the grain here and say he could be a very lucky boy and them not pay attention to the engine swap, whatever the putcone though he'll have learnt a lesson when he wakes from the coma

_dobbo_

14,313 posts

247 months

Tuesday 12th September 2017
quotequote all
As long as somebody doesn't see this thread and go "oh I'm investigating a serious BMW crash I wonder if there has been an engine swap..."

hairyben

8,516 posts

182 months

Tuesday 12th September 2017
quotequote all
BMWBen said:
hairyben said:
KelWedge said:
Bit Silly to say Least not to inform the insurance company and DVLA about the engine change, I informed my insurance company that I had changed from 3500 cc to 4600 cc and a few other (Lots) mods (including Brakes) premium increase yes about £ 25. The biggest hassle were DVLA who wanted proof of work done.
Yes me thinks if they spot it which they might not, he will have a problem.
Theres an order of magnitude of difference there though. Your's is within a range, his was mundane to fairly high performance. I gather the premium increase just from 325 to 330 on the bim is very significant, I expect legit insurance on the 3.0 was simply not affordable - and for good reason - there's a lot of people arguing specifics about brakes and stuff here but a 330 can coax you into using power and driving in a way a 318 simply doesn't, which is why more get crashed and they cost more to insure. I'd be surprised if the insurance weren't on this - I'm guessing the car probably had highly visual mods too like wheels etc which would prod them to look further.
I actually found that a 545i was cheaper to insure than a 530i however, so its not a simple relationship between engine size and premium. It's actually about models of car and the risk they present to the insurer.
Not simply engine size, both cars you reference would be classed as large performance saloons with other factors accounting for insurance cost discrepancies, but the effect of engine size in mateys car takes it from hum drum saloon to high performance saloon, and probably one of the highest risk ones at that (larger cars are often less to insure as they typically don't attract as many loons)

Kewy

1,462 posts

93 months

Tuesday 12th September 2017
quotequote all
This thread = argue

sleep

Always surprises me the amount of blood thirsty posters waiting for the worst to happen. I'm sure you guys have never put a foot wrong or made a bad decision in your life…
Hope said friend makes a full recovery.

IJB1959

2,139 posts

85 months

Tuesday 12th September 2017
quotequote all
Kewy said:
This thread = argue

sleep

Always surprises me the amount of blood thirsty posters waiting for the worst to happen. I'm sure you guys have never put a foot wrong or made a bad decision in your life…
Hope said friend makes a full recovery.
That is fair and decent comment. The chap made a very stupid mistake (we all have at some point), but that does not mean we should not wish him a full recovery. He will pay the price for the stupidity in other ways for sure, and lesson learned.

Who_Goes_Blue

1,070 posts

170 months

Tuesday 12th September 2017
quotequote all
I`m also going to stick my head above the parapet and say the engine swap wont be (unlikely to be) noticed.

Had a corrado written off a few years ago, assessor was there all of 2 minutes to look at the damage and the general condition of the car and then went. Bonnet stayed firmly shut the whole time.

Stickyfinger

8,429 posts

104 months

Tuesday 12th September 2017
quotequote all
Who_Goes_Blue said:
I`m also going to stick my head above the parapet and say the engine swap wont be (unlikely to be) noticed.

Had a corrado written off a few years ago, assessor was there all of 2 minutes to look at the damage and the general condition of the car and then went. Bonnet stayed firmly shut the whole time.
If the Police asses it then the "assessor" will be a very different beast....

TwigtheWonderkid

43,244 posts

149 months

Tuesday 12th September 2017
quotequote all
Kewy said:
This thread = argue

sleep

I'm sure you guys have never put a foot wrong or made a bad decision in your life…
Plenty, but when does that argument become invalid. I mean, you could say that about Ian Huntley.."yeah, so he killed those 2 girls, but have you never made a mistake?"

There are degrees of mistake. Just because I once bought brown bread when the wife asked me to get white, does not mean I cannot criticise Pol Pot.