Crash - Insurance Unaware Of Engine Swap - Consequences

[SonicShadow]

strain said:

insurance will most likely refuse to pay out, could be charged with driving without suitable insurance, coupled with any previous points they probably have and any they get for causing the crash could lose their license.

Your friends an idiot

let me guess, kept the standard brakes too?

The insurer will pay all third parties involved, they are obligated to. If OP's friend checks their contract, they'll probably find that i this scenario the insurer can sue him personally for costs.

A more powerful engine doesn't always mean different brakes, depends on the car.

[Ransoman]

JimSuperSix said:

There's always some fool who will say something like this trying to sound clever...just because the engine is upgraded does not mean you drive everywhere twice as fast and brake twice as hard

If you ever manage to overheat the brakes on any remotely modern car by braking so hard for multiple corners then really you are driving like a total moron anyway, uprated engine or not.

Bigger engine = more weight which means the brakes have to work much harder to slow the car down from the same speed.

[TooMany2cvs]

JimSuperSix said:

There's always some fool who will say something like this trying to sound clever...just because the engine is upgraded does not mean you drive everywhere twice as fast and brake twice as hard

Seems a bit pointless upgrading the mechanicals, if you're not going to drive it harder.

Also makes me wonder why <manufacturer> would bother fitting uprated bits to the larger-engined/heavier/more powerful version, if the standard bits are perfectly fine.

[SantaBarbara]

Sea Demon said:

Yep the car was originally a 1.8 4 Cyl but then had a 3.0 straight 6 dropped in

A three litre straight 6 could be capable of 150 mph

[anonymous-user]

Ransoman said:

JimSuperSix said:

There's always some fool who will say something like this trying to sound clever...just because the engine is upgraded does not mean you drive everywhere twice as fast and brake twice as hard

If you ever manage to overheat the brakes on any remotely modern car by braking so hard for multiple corners then really you are driving like a total moron anyway, uprated engine or not.

Bigger engine = more weight which means the brakes have to work much harder to slow the car down from the same speed.

Absolute rubbish. Do you upgrade the brakes every time you carry a couple of passengers?

[anonymous-user]

TooMany2cvs said:

JimSuperSix said:

There's always some fool who will say something like this trying to sound clever...just because the engine is upgraded does not mean you drive everywhere twice as fast and brake twice as hard

Seems a bit pointless upgrading the mechanicals, if you're not going to drive it harder.

Also makes me wonder why <manufacturer> would bother fitting uprated bits to the larger-engined/heavier/more powerful version, if the standard bits are perfectly fine.

I'm not saying its not a good idea , but the idea that you will instantly crash if you have more power and the same brakes is just ludicrous. The car will still stop from 60mph just as well as it did before , just means you can get to 60 quicker. Of course if you then get to 120 instead you might have issues, but if you do that on a public road then you're probably beyond common sense anyway.

[QuickQuack]

justinio said:

Sounds like he's been a bit of a silly boy.

Sounds like he's been a right royal actually...

[SHutchinson]

SantaBarbara said:

Sea Demon said:

Yep the car was originally a 1.8 4 Cyl but then had a 3.0 straight 6 dropped in

A three litre straight 6 could be capable of 150 mph

A 1.8 4 cyl could also be capable of 150mph, but that is beside the point.

[anonymous-user]

Nanook said:

JimSuperSix said:

Ransoman said:

JimSuperSix said:

There's always some fool who will say something like this trying to sound clever...just because the engine is upgraded does not mean you drive everywhere twice as fast and brake twice as hard

If you ever manage to overheat the brakes on any remotely modern car by braking so hard for multiple corners then really you are driving like a total moron anyway, uprated engine or not.

Bigger engine = more weight which means the brakes have to work much harder to slow the car down from the same speed.

Absolute rubbish. Do you upgrade the brakes every time you carry a couple of passengers?

It's not rubbish, and no, I don't upgrade the brakes every time I do the shopping or carry some passengers.

That's because the brakes, suspension, tyres, etc. are designed to operate within a range of mass. There's an upper and lower design limit on them, based on the minimum kerb weight and the MAM of the vehicle.

My truck has larger brakes than my car. It also has a much larger engine, at 6L, compared to the tiddly 3.5 in my car. Yet, it's much much slower than my car. So why are the brakes bigger?

Because it weighs 10.5T more.

Why do you think bigger cars tend to have bigger brakes than smaller cars?

You are deliberately misleading to help your point. This is not about different cars having different size brakes , this is about having a certain car and then upgrading the engine - it's not going to add an extra ton of mass or anything silly, and you will add more than the difference between the 2 engines by carrying 4 passengers and their luggage, yet the car is still safe as the brakes are designed to cope with that extra mass anyway.

[4159265]

JimSuperSix said:

strain said:

let me guess, kept the standard brakes too?

There's always some fool who will say something like this trying to sound clever...just because the engine is upgraded does not mean you drive everywhere twice as fast and brake twice as hard

If you ever manage to overheat the brakes on any remotely modern car by braking so hard for multiple corners then really you are driving like a total moron anyway, uprated engine or not.

Jim is correct.

My Lexus LS has interchangeable brakes with a Micra. Fact.

[SantaBarbara]

What car was it please OP

[anonymous-user]

Everyone is assuming the crash is a direct result of the engine change, we do not have enough information to determine if the engine swap played a part in the accident.

Whether it did or not does not change the fact there is a mis-match between the vehicle as is and the vehicle as stated on the policy document.

[strain]

Surprised you're on here and not sharing your knowledge to all car manufacturers about how they can save money just putting the same brakes on all the cars...

Who changes the engine if they aren't going to 'use' the power?

This guy felt it was a good move to swap the engine - its a genuine thought process that he most probably left the brakes standard, seeing as he crashed I'm going to say its a high possibility

Do a brake test side by side on a standard car and one with a larger engine with standard brakes.

And for the sake of being clear, brakes are normally the first thing I upgrade, when I have done an engine swap in the past the front and rear brakes where also fitted from the donor car.

[anonymous-user]

Nanook said:

JimSuperSix said:

You are deliberately misleading to help your point. This is not about different cars having different size brakes , this is about having a certain car and then upgrading the engine - it's not going to add an extra ton of mass , you will add more than the difference between the 2 engines by carrying 4 passengers and their luggage, yet the car is still safe as the brakes are designed to cope with that extra mass anyway.

I'm not misleading to help a point, you're missing the point. Intentionally I suspect.

Which is heavier, do you suppose, a 318 with 4 passengers and a suitcase? Or a 330 with 4 passengers and a suitcase.

Based on that answer, does it seem like an odd coincidence that a 330 has larger brakes than a 318?

Oh dear, try reading the above again slowly and see if you can see where you've gone wrong. I don't care if a 330 has brakes twice the size - the point is - if you put a 330 engine in a 318, that doesnt mean the 318 is instantly unsafe, as certain people like to believe. Yes its sensible to upgrade the brakes if you want to do track driving etc.. , but that's true whether you upgrade the engine or not. For road use having the original brakes with an upgraded engine is perfectly fine unless the driver is a total tool. How many mapped diesels do you see with upgraded brakes? Mostly none, yet they're not all buried in hedgerows or upside down on roundabouts having failed to stop.

[anonymous-user]

strain said:

Do a brake test side by side on a standard car and one with a larger engine with standard brakes.

Pointless test - do a brake test side by side with the car with just the driver and then 4 passengers and full luggage. I suspect you might find that increases the stopping distance a lot more than the extra weight of the upgraded engine.

[SantaBarbara]

Sea Demon said:

Yep the car was originally a 1.8 4 Cyl but then had a 3.0 straight 6 dropped in

Was the three litre engine. From the American manufacturers as both the car body and the old engine

[SonicShadow]

strain said:

Surprised you're on here and not sharing your knowledge to all car manufacturers about how they can save money just putting the same brakes on all the cars...

Some do.

For example - MR2 non turbo and turbo brakes are exactly the same, yet the turbo is heavier and has ~80bhp more.

[anonymous-user]

What I called absolute rubbish was your statement that bigger engine = more weight = brakes have to work harder as justification that not upgrading the brakes makes the car unsafe in any way.

I found this on a Miata forum - "The weight gain from a stock 1.6 liter to the LS1 is about 90 pounds" , which is about 18kg if the various online converters are correct, so about 1/5th the weight of a passenger.

Unless you fit an absolutely huge engine, the extra weight is going to be irrelevant to road driving.

[SantaBarbara]

Sea Demon said:

Friend of mine is in hospital at the moment following a big crash that he was involved in a few days ago, he hadn't told his insurance about his engine conversion & the police took the car away etc - from what I gather, the accident was his fault.

What's the likely outcome going to be for him apart from probably having a limp?

Before anyone says it, yes it really is a friend that had the crash and not me as Im not as stupid as him

Edited by Sea Demon on Thursday 7th September 12:16

Also had he fitted a high speed rating tyres

[deckster]

JimSuperSix said:

if you put a 330 engine in a 318, that doesnt mean the 318 is instantly unsafe, as certain people like to believe.

You mean the people in your head, who believe something that you've just made up? Because nobody on this thread has said anything of the sort.