Crash - Insurance Unaware Of Engine Swap - Consequences

[anonymous-user]

deckster said:

JimSuperSix said:

if you put a 330 engine in a 318, that doesnt mean the 318 is instantly unsafe, as certain people like to believe.

You mean the people in your head, who believe something that you've just made up? Because nobody on this thread has said anything of the sort.

It was the smug implication of the "let me guess, standard brakes" post that set me off It gets trotted out by some smug pillock every time someone mentions an engine upgrade, yet is of very little actual relevance in most cases.

Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 7th September 13:49

[Dog Star]

I had a monumental crash last year and wrote off a five month old E class.
I and the OH were take away from the scene by HATOs and the car removed by whoever recovers them off motorways.

Insurance never inspected the car - they just settled the week after.

Having said that there were no third parties or injuries involved, just the one idiot (me).

[kiethton]

Just thinking out of the box....

If the insurance company tried to lay claim to the un-declared mod driver, and they have no meaningful assets, is there anything stopping them having a good weekend/2 weeks away to flutter the remains of any cash/credit capacity before coming back and filing for bankruptcy, walking away form any obligations toward the insurance co? (I assume magistrates costs are excluded?)

Dickish move admittedly but one way to get away from the "lifetime" of debt that others mention, especially as you'd be good to start over 5 years later and have had a brilliant time away to boot!

[Integroo]

kiethton said:

Just thinking out of the box....

If the insurance company tried to lay claim to the un-declared mod driver, and they have no meaningful assets, is there anything stopping them having a good weekend/2 weeks away to flutter the remains of any cash/credit capacity before coming back and filing for bankruptcy, walking away form any obligations toward the insurance co? (I assume magistrates costs are excluded?)

Dickish move admittedly but one way to get away from the "lifetime" of debt that others mention, especially as you'd be good to start over 5 years later and have had a brilliant time away to boot!

Yes, it is fraud, if you take credit without intending to pay it back with the intention of filing for bankruptcy. You could go to prison, and the debt would not be discharged in bankruptcy.

[SantaBarbara]

What about the Tyres

[spikyone]

Nanook said:

JimSuperSix said:

What I called absolute rubbish was your statement that bigger engine = more weight = brakes have to work harder as justification that not upgrading the brakes makes the car unsafe in any way.

I found this on a Miata forum - "The weight gain from a stock 1.6 liter to the LS1 is about 90 pounds" , which is about 18kg if the various online converters are correct, so about 1/5th the weight of a passenger.

Unless you fit an absolutely huge engine, the extra weight is going to be irrelevant to road driving.

Ok, first things first, that was not my statement. The statement that bigger engine = more weight = brakes having to work harder is literally a fact. You can't just say "rubbish" and make it so

Secondly, 90 pounds is not 18kg
There are 2.2 pounds in one kilogram, I'll leave the maths to you there.

And finally, if you're so sure you're correct, why do manufacturers bother? What's the point? Why don't they save money, complexity and effort, and just fit little brakes to everything?

Think about it. Really think about it.

It's more often the case that the bigger engine is a performance version, rather than the insignificant extra weight, and bigger brakes are fitted to enhance the sportiness. Regardless of the crap maths, 90lb (41kg) is about half the weight of a fairly average male adult. Let's say your car is 2000kg with full fuel, five passengers, and their luggage. That 41kg is about 2% of its weight. Otherwise known as "not worth worrying about".

Most diesel engines weigh more than a petrol engine, yet your average base spec petrol and diesel will generally use the same brakes.

[cbmotorsport]

I very much doubt that two identical cars, one fitted with a 1.8L 4 Cyl and one fitted with a 3.0L straight six will have vastly different stopping distances from 60mph. A few feet at absolute most.

The brakes point was a moot one.

[InitialDave]

I think the brakes question is something of a red herring. Plus it depends what the swap is.

Putting an M54B30 into an E46 316i (some of which are 1.8L because reasons)? Probably not such a big deal.

Same engine in an E30 318i, or an RB30 into an S12 Silvia? Hmm, you're really upping both the power and weight there, and I suspect the brakes really wouldn't cope that well at all.

MG C engine into a B? 50% power hike, and an extra 100kg in a car with brakes and suspension that aren't exactly earth shattering.

Same with tyres. If the car is running reasonable, modern tyres anyway, it's probably fine. If you take it out on 14" hedgemasters when you've doubled the power, it might be a bit interesting.

I don't think you can make a blanket statement that related changes for a swap are inherently necessary or unnecessary, it's dependent on the exact situation.

And probably of little relevance to the specific kind of trouble the OP's friend is in, however you cut it.

[Soov330e]

OK, so back on track.

1. When they notice (and they will - it's hardly a subtle mod), his insurer will void his policy.
2. This means that he will not get paid out for damage to his own car. It's a goner.
3. Insurance company will pay out any third party claims, i.e. damage to other party/parties' car(s), and for injuries etc as part of the arrangements called the "MIB" - Motor Insurance Bureau. This could be very substantial. I pray he didn't injure anyone.
4. Insurance company will recover costs in (3) from your idiot mate.
5. If he has a house, and he can't pay (4) above, he will lose his house as it will be sold to pay the claim.
5. He will never get insurance again at anything approaching a reasonable cost.
6. He will be prosecuted for no insurance, and anything else they can think of. Fine and ban likely.

Your friend is a grade 1 pinhead. And his life is about to turn into a big steaming turd.

And rightly so, I'm afraid.

Edited by Soov330e on Thursday 7th September 14:39

[anonymous-user]

Nanook said:

JimSuperSix said:

What I called absolute rubbish was your statement that bigger engine = more weight = brakes have to work harder as justification that not upgrading the brakes makes the car unsafe in any way.

I found this on a Miata forum - "The weight gain from a stock 1.6 liter to the LS1 is about 90 pounds" , which is about 18kg if the various online converters are correct, so about 1/5th the weight of a passenger.

Unless you fit an absolutely huge engine, the extra weight is going to be irrelevant to road driving.

Ok, first things first, that was not my statement. The statement that bigger engine = more weight = brakes having to work harder is literally a fact. You can't just say "rubbish" and make it so

Secondly, 90 pounds is not 18kg
There are 2.2 pounds in one kilogram, I'll leave the maths to you there.

And finally, if you're so sure you're correct, why do manufacturers bother? What's the point? Why don't they save money, complexity and effort, and just fit little brakes to everything?

Think about it. Really think about it.

Ah well I did say "assuming the online converters are correct" as it gave me 40kg on one , 18kg on others. Even so , 40kg is still irrelevant in terms of braking and compared to 85kg passengers.

And I can say its rubbish in respect of this thread - it might be true technically, but its rubbish in terms of making the OP's friends car any more or less safe, which was the smug implication of the original post i responded to.

Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 7th September 14:50

[Thermobaric]

FYI, you can just Google basic conversions like that and Google will do the conversion and show you in the browser. Same for calculations e.t.c. No need to find a converter on some random site.

I.e. just Google 'how many kg is 90 pounds'

[cbmotorsport]

Soov330e said:

OK, so back on track.

1. When they notice (and they will - it's hardly a subtle mod), his insurer will void his policy.
2. This means that he will not get paid out for damage to his own car. It's a goner.
3. Insurance company will pay out any third party claims, i.e. damage to other party/parties' car(s), and for injuries etc as part of the arrangements called the "MIB" - Motor Insurance Bureau. This could be very substantial. I pray he didn't injure anyone.
4. Insurance company will recover costs in (3) from your idiot mate.
5. If he has a house, and he can't pay (4) above, he will lose his house as it will be sold to pay the claim.
5. He will never get insurance again at anything approaching a reasonable cost.
6. He will be prosecuted for no insurance, and anything else they can think of. Fine and ban likely.

Your friend is a grade 1 pinhead. And his life is about to turn into a big steaming turd.

And rightly so, I'm afraid.

Edited by Soov330e on Thursday 7th September 14:39

Thank god for that, I thought it was going to be serious..

[Soov330e]

cbmotorsport said:

Soov330e said:

OK, so back on track.

1. When they notice (and they will - it's hardly a subtle mod), his insurer will void his policy.
2. This means that he will not get paid out for damage to his own car. It's a goner.
3. Insurance company will pay out any third party claims, i.e. damage to other party/parties' car(s), and for injuries etc as part of the arrangements called the "MIB" - Motor Insurance Bureau. This could be very substantial. I pray he didn't injure anyone.
4. Insurance company will recover costs in (3) from your idiot mate.
5. If he has a house, and he can't pay (4) above, he will lose his house as it will be sold to pay the claim. He may well be bankrupted if the house doesn't cover it.
5. He will never get insurance again at anything approaching a reasonable cost.
6. He will be prosecuted for no insurance, and anything else they can think of. Fine and ban likely.

Your friend is a grade 1 pinhead. And his life is about to turn into a big steaming turd.

And rightly so, I'm afraid.

Edited by Soov330e on Thursday 7th September 14:39

Thank god for that, I thought it was going to be serious..

[anonymous-user]

Thermobaric said:

FYI, you can just Google basic conversions like that and Google will do the conversion and show you in the browser. Same for calculations e.t.c. No need to find a converter on some random site.

I.e. just Google 'how many kg is 90 pounds'

yeah I did, and got 18 on one link and 40 on the other

Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 7th September 15:02

[Olivera]

Soov330e said:

4. Insurance company will recover costs in (3) from your idiot mate.
5. If he has a house, and he can't pay (4) above, he will lose his house as it will be sold to pay the claim.

Edited by Soov330e on Thursday 7th September 14:39

The rest I agree with, but the above is often stated on PH for a myriad of cases. I've yet to see any proof that this occurs at all.

[TooMany2cvs]

Thermobaric said:

FYI, you can just Google basic conversions like that and Google will do the conversion and show you in the browser. Same for calculations e.t.c. No need to find a converter on some random site.

I.e. just Google 'how many kg is 90 pounds'

Or just go and look at a jar of jam and wonder why it's such an odd figure as 454g.

[KevinCamaroSS]

4159265 said:

Jim is correct.

My Lexus LS has interchangeable brakes with a Micra. Fact.

According to Google an LS has 315mm rotors, a Micra 234mm. Not quite the same.

[InitialDave]

TooMany2cvs said:

Or just go and look at a jar of jam and wonder why it's such an odd figure as 454g.

If you try to put 757g of jam in it, make sure you tell your home insurance.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Olivera said:

Soov330e said:

4. Insurance company will recover costs in (3) from your idiot mate.
5. If he has a house, and he can't pay (4) above, he will lose his house as it will be sold to pay the claim.

Edited by Soov330e on Thursday 7th September 14:39

The rest I agree with, but the above is often stated on PH for a myriad of cases. I've yet to see any proof that this occurs at all.

It happens. And happened to someone I know of. Insured their son's car (he was in the same year as my eldest) in mum's name, stating he was an occasional driver. Investigations following a 2am serious accident that put a teenage passenger in a wheelchair soon revealed this was not the case, and the car was sonny Jim's car. Car was manual amd mum only had an auto licence.

Insurers forced house sale and the £750k went towards the tp claiim. And they still owe about £500K.

[TooMany2cvs]

InitialDave said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Or just go and look at a jar of jam and wonder why it's such an odd figure as 454g.

If you try to put 757g of jam in it, make sure you tell your home insurance.

s'ok, our floors are tiled rather than carpeted, so they'll just wash clean.