Damage to car from road condition - do I have a case?
Discussion
Hi all, suffered a double puncture yesterday. Single track minor road, middle of nowhere but quite busy with all sorts of traffic from horses and bikes to buses as its on the way to an attraction (Hadrians wall stuff).
There are vehicular passing places, however the many bikes and hikers just keep going regardless, especially if they are travelling uphill to keep their momentum going. If you encounter them midway its a bit of a squeeze. So many vehicles have edged onto the verge slightly its dipped away, leaving a sharp road edge.
I got caught out and ended up needed recovery with 2 flats. Do I have a case for a claim against the local authority for lack of maintenance? As far as I know the "carriageway" legally extends the full width of ownership, not just the road surface, so it should be in good repair, or will they just say its my fault for straying from the paving?
Its really annoying as the recovery firm actually knew where I was almost exactly as they have had so many similar calls. Could this be evidence?
There are vehicular passing places, however the many bikes and hikers just keep going regardless, especially if they are travelling uphill to keep their momentum going. If you encounter them midway its a bit of a squeeze. So many vehicles have edged onto the verge slightly its dipped away, leaving a sharp road edge.
I got caught out and ended up needed recovery with 2 flats. Do I have a case for a claim against the local authority for lack of maintenance? As far as I know the "carriageway" legally extends the full width of ownership, not just the road surface, so it should be in good repair, or will they just say its my fault for straying from the paving?
Its really annoying as the recovery firm actually knew where I was almost exactly as they have had so many similar calls. Could this be evidence?
Hi,
I had an identical thing happen on a damaged section of road.
Submitted claim to Council and they replied saying not at fault. Requested proof of last inspection and maintenance which they sent as the road had been previously repaired.
They sent this back saying nothing unusual. I queried something on the record and it transpired the subcontractor for the highways had done a cheaper and unapproved repair. Council fobbed me off onto them. I sent them a request for about £600 (two refurbed alloys and 2 new tyres). They had a cheque in the post in a matter of days.
Took about 3 months start to finish.
I had an identical thing happen on a damaged section of road.
Submitted claim to Council and they replied saying not at fault. Requested proof of last inspection and maintenance which they sent as the road had been previously repaired.
They sent this back saying nothing unusual. I queried something on the record and it transpired the subcontractor for the highways had done a cheaper and unapproved repair. Council fobbed me off onto them. I sent them a request for about £600 (two refurbed alloys and 2 new tyres). They had a cheque in the post in a matter of days.
Took about 3 months start to finish.
Cheers
Ziplobb said:
you have not said how you know that the highway you are on has caused the punctures ? are there splits in your sidewalls from the sharp edge ? pictures of the tyres would be useful here
The wheels slid down the side of the road into the depression in the top pic tearing the inner sidewalls on the exposed aggregates and deflating them instantly. The car is pictured only a few metres downhill from the top pic.Looking at the photo, the failure doesn't appear to extend in to the carriageway, it seems more like the verge has sunk. I can see how they would think you had driven off the road, rather than the road having failed.
Devil's Advocate: If there had been a kerb there, would you have hit it, and if so, would you have claimed for any damage?
Devil's Advocate: If there had been a kerb there, would you have hit it, and if so, would you have claimed for any damage?
Loose_Cannon said:
Cheers
Dropped verges are extremely common. How to avoid?...Observation.Ziplobb said:
you have not said how you know that the highway you are on has caused the punctures ? are there splits in your sidewalls from the sharp edge ? pictures of the tyres would be useful here
The wheels slid down the side of the road into the depression in the top pic tearing the inner sidewalls on the exposed aggregates and deflating them instantly. The car is pictured only a few metres downhill from the top pic.SantaBarbara said:
The Higway authority should have erected signs saying. "Soft Verges"
Keep off
Really?? What about the driver taking responsibility - sKeep off
t happens...Christ almighty - why is someone else always to blame.Suck it up - Tyres are cheap - is it really worth all the hassle for (on average) half worn tyres.
SantaBarbara said:
The Higway authority should have erected signs saying. "Soft Verges"
Keep off
Keep off
If this were true, in that they are obliged to do so, there'd be thousands needed around where I live.
I have some sympathy with the OP but having lived for many years in an area with lots of similar lanes, it's a matter of only driving where you know you can.
If that means reversing if another car's coming along, so be it.
I learned from a neighbour's experience; she pulled over on to a verge to let someone pass and dropped into a drainage channel running across the verge, about 500mm wide and deep. Summer, high grass masked it. Needed towing out and an insurance repair.
To be fair the drop off in this thread is fairly visible.
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 11th September 12:31
5 month old tyres sadly!
I really don't know how it wasn't particularly visible from the direction of travel, but it wasn't. I can certianly appreciate the argument about staying on the pavement, and normally I'm srupulous about this as I'm paranoid about scraping alloys!
However as you can see in the first pic if there is a cyclist or hiker on this road it is impassable if all parties stay on the pavement. Short of appearing on some cyclists Youtube headcam rant about being forced off the road there is little choice for a vehicle to use the (trimmed and otherwise maintained) verge.
Should the verges not be part of the maintenance regime? Iif there was some precipitous drop or other hazard there would be barriers etc.
Its sounds like I'm buggered then, but thanks for the replies.
I really don't know how it wasn't particularly visible from the direction of travel, but it wasn't. I can certianly appreciate the argument about staying on the pavement, and normally I'm srupulous about this as I'm paranoid about scraping alloys!
However as you can see in the first pic if there is a cyclist or hiker on this road it is impassable if all parties stay on the pavement. Short of appearing on some cyclists Youtube headcam rant about being forced off the road there is little choice for a vehicle to use the (trimmed and otherwise maintained) verge.
Should the verges not be part of the maintenance regime? Iif there was some precipitous drop or other hazard there would be barriers etc.
Its sounds like I'm buggered then, but thanks for the replies.
SantaBarbara said:
The Highway authority should have erected signs saying. "Soft Verges"
Keep off
If they had to that in Devon, they'd need about 100,000 signs! There are hundreds of miles of roads like that around here. They way you avoid problems is observation - either don't go down the edge of the carriageway or go down it at more of an angle so the sidewalls don't get touchedKeep off
Who or what were you squeezing past to cause that?
Sometimes you just ought to accept that there will be a minor delay between passing places, and follow a slower road user at a safe distance.
And while I'm not suggesting it's the case with you, there are FAR too many drivers out there who flat refuse to stop and wait at a passing place when approaching a cyclist head-on. Instead, they drive AT the cyclist in the hope that the cyclist will somehow conjure a passing place that doesn't already exist, or leap head first into a hedgerow to get off the road.
Just because you are in a bigger, faster vehicle doesn't give you an automatic right to pass smaller, slower road users at any point you wish. You still have to observe, plan, and react in a safe manner for you AND other road users. In this case, from what I can see in the picture and have understood from your description, a little patience might well have saved you from a bill for repairs and a great deal of inconvenience. And all for the sake of slowing down to take a proper look at where you planned to place your wheels. Genuine question. How many seconds might your move have saved you if the damage had not occurred? Cost/benefit analysis time. Was it worth the risk?
Sometimes you just ought to accept that there will be a minor delay between passing places, and follow a slower road user at a safe distance.
And while I'm not suggesting it's the case with you, there are FAR too many drivers out there who flat refuse to stop and wait at a passing place when approaching a cyclist head-on. Instead, they drive AT the cyclist in the hope that the cyclist will somehow conjure a passing place that doesn't already exist, or leap head first into a hedgerow to get off the road.
Just because you are in a bigger, faster vehicle doesn't give you an automatic right to pass smaller, slower road users at any point you wish. You still have to observe, plan, and react in a safe manner for you AND other road users. In this case, from what I can see in the picture and have understood from your description, a little patience might well have saved you from a bill for repairs and a great deal of inconvenience. And all for the sake of slowing down to take a proper look at where you planned to place your wheels. Genuine question. How many seconds might your move have saved you if the damage had not occurred? Cost/benefit analysis time. Was it worth the risk?
Not a cyclist myself yellowjack but try to be more respectful than most drivers I see. From memory it was a cyclist I was avoiding and when I say that it wasn't any kind of panic/evasive manouvre. In the first picture at the top I was travelling towards the camera and you can see you come around a corner unsighted. I think the cyclist was already just past the passing place, so it was either move around or reverse. The dip looks obvious from the direction of the picture and standing, but I didn't notice it particularly the other way from the drivers seat..
Its the first time I've been to that location, and I thought I was being cautious, but obviously not cautious enough.
Its clear its my fault now, taking it on the chin.
Its the first time I've been to that location, and I thought I was being cautious, but obviously not cautious enough.
Its clear its my fault now, taking it on the chin.
SantaBarbara said:
Loose Cannon,
Please explain what caused the first puncture, was it a nail or a screw?
2 punctures simultaneously; front wheel dropped off the road into sunken verge, rear wheel followed, both inner sidewalls punctured by sharp protrusions, bang bang, slither to a halt!Please explain what caused the first puncture, was it a nail or a screw?
Yes, it is a nuisance and you learn from these situations. I always used to beat myself up if that happened, then I think it just rubber and metal and not a kid. From the picture, you could have gone off road earlier and avoided the drop by driving on the grass (as far as I can see). I have done that with 35 section tyres in similar situations with no issues. (It is worth assessing on your car what suspension brake and steering items are close to the wheel so that you know what you can do if a situation comes up) It is a case of seeing it early, assessing whether you can go further off, or need to stay on the road. I assume you had to go off the road because of a cyclist. For a horse, you could have stopped on the road, and they would have been happy to pass on the soft verge, a smile and a wave helps smooth the progress too. On roads like that I like to have the window open so that verbal and visual contact is easier (I feel window down also helps when pulling out of a side road, it removes the isolating barrier and makes it human to human rather than vehicle to vehicle). What size tyres, incidentally?
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