Deposit wasnt protected.
Discussion
Hi all, it has come to an end of our tenancy at the property and the LL is selling the property. Now obviously i want to be as emenable as possible, but im also the distrusting sort. It turns out he never paid the deposit into a deposit scheme. In the unlikely event of him with-holding part or all of the deposit where do we stand?
There are several very similar recent threads on here....you may wish to search and then come back.
But in short the landlord is not in a good position but you may be.
eta https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
But in short the landlord is not in a good position but you may be.
eta https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Edited by alfie2244 on Monday 18th September 16:15
V40Vinnie said:
Hi all, it has come to an end of our tenancy at the property and the LL is selling the property. Now obviously i want to be as emenable as possible, but im also the distrusting sort. It turns out he never paid the deposit into a deposit scheme. In the unlikely event of him with-holding part or all of the deposit where do we stand?
karching !! upto 3x the deposit.has he also given you notice to leave? if so he's feked that up as well.
let us help draft the letters.
Edited by superlightr on Monday 18th September 16:45
superlightr said:
V40Vinnie said:
Hi all, it has come to an end of our tenancy at the property and the LL is selling the property. Now obviously i want to be as emenable as possible, but im also the distrusting sort. It turns out he never paid the deposit into a deposit scheme. In the unlikely event of him with-holding part or all of the deposit where do we stand?
karching !! upto 3x the deposit.has he also given you notice to leave?
let us help draft the letters.
TooMany2cvs said:
superlightr said:
has he also given you notice to leave?
<chuckles><chorus> Oh, no, he hasn't...
This could become quite amusing if he's planning to try to tie exchange (or even completion... oh, please...) into the expiry of the s21...
it amazes me that some landlords are still really that ignorant. DIY letting what possible could go wrong eh?
V40Vinnie said:
Yes he gave us 6 weeks notice after having orignially tried to give 6 days.
Bless.I presume you pay rent monthly, and he doesn't share the premises with you?
If so, then he has to give you at least two complete months, starting with a rent day. Except he can't give you s21 notice anyway, because he hasn't protected the deposit. Any notice he gives you is completely invalid, unless you've done some things very wrong - like not paid rent for two months.
Basically, the ball could not be more in your court if you tried. Especially since he wants to get the sale under way...
V40Vinnie said:
Im wondering how much TAX he's paid considering he wanted his rent paid cash.
That's not really your problem, tbh. But, as and when you do get it all sorted, HMRC might appreciate a call... <whistles vindictively>DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.
Equally, you could argue, I don't understand why the tenant was not jumping up and down for their certificate/proof of TDS protection/deposit insurance scheme which the landlord is supposed to provide within 30 days of receiving the deposit. Fortunately the OP is a strong position but the situation of finding out this late in the day could have been avoided.
48k said:
Equally, you could argue, I don't understand why the tenant was not jumping up and down for their certificate/proof of TDS protection/deposit insurance scheme which the landlord is supposed to provide within 30 days of receiving the deposit.
Fortunately the OP is a strong position but the situation of finding out this late in the day could have been avoided.
If they had any sense a tenant wouldn't jump up and down about it until it suited them to....like now for the OP...oh and I am a Landlord BTW.Fortunately the OP is a strong position but the situation of finding out this late in the day could have been avoided.
superlightr said:
TooMany2cvs said:
superlightr said:
has he also given you notice to leave?
<chuckles><chorus> Oh, no, he hasn't...
This could become quite amusing if he's planning to try to tie exchange (or even completion... oh, please...) into the expiry of the s21...
it amazes me that some landlords are still really that ignorant. DIY letting what possible could go wrong eh?
Where the deposit has not been protected either, the OP holds all the aces.
Any Section 21 notice may only be served once the deposit has been returned or an application has been determined by a court.
http://www.landlordsguild.com/serving-a-section-21...
48k said:
Equally, you could argue, I don't understand why the tenant was not jumping up and down for their certificate/proof of TDS protection/deposit insurance scheme which the landlord is supposed to provide within 30 days of receiving the deposit.
Fortunately the OP is a strong position but the situation of finding out this late in the day could have been avoided.
In my case, its shear bloody Naivety. Also he is a Live in landlord but we do have a Tenancy agreement. Fortunately the OP is a strong position but the situation of finding out this late in the day could have been avoided.
V40Vinnie said:
In my case, its shear bloody Naivety. Also he is a Live in landlord but we do have a Tenancy agreement.
Hold on, what do you mean he's a live in landlord? Are you just renting a room in his place of residence? Do you have a proper Assured Shorthold Tenancy, otherwise known as AST? If he is living in the same property as you, which is what anyone would understand from your description of him being a live in landlord, you cannot possibly have an AST as the Housing Act 1988 specifically excludes tenancies with resident landlords from being assured shorthold tenancies. If you don't have an AST, the deposit does NOT need to be protected so he's not wrong. Also, if he is only renting out a room, he may not need to declare it to the HMRC depending on how much you're paying.
We need a bit more information...
ETA the link to the relevant gov.uk page.
With a resident landlord, read through the following page and also look at sections 3 and 5 to see whether you're in an excluded or a non-excluded tenancy, and to see how much notice your landlord has to give you. If you're in an excluded tenancy, your notice period could be 1 week or it could be longer depending on your rental period (how frequently you pay for your rent, i.e. weekly or monthly).
https://www.gov.uk/rent-room-in-your-home
Edited by QuickQuack on Monday 18th September 23:31
hmm, sounds like he's played all of us tenant like a drum then... (there are 3 of us in the same ship). Again i had made the assumption somewhat naively that a tenancy agreement made me a tenant and not a lodger. At the start of the agreement he was in the Annexe rather than in the house. It does feel like he has pick n mixed the bits that suit him between Lodging/Tenancy/ and HMO
calling someone a lodger does not necessary make them one. It will be presumed to be an AST unless stated otherwise and shown to be otherwise.
so what does your agreement say on the front page? does it say it is an AST?
Do you have sole use of the property you are renting ie kitchen, bathroom, bedroom and can lock your door?
How are the utilities paid?
These will give an indication if you have sole use and its self-contained which it needs to be to be an AST.
so what does your agreement say on the front page? does it say it is an AST?
Do you have sole use of the property you are renting ie kitchen, bathroom, bedroom and can lock your door?
How are the utilities paid?
These will give an indication if you have sole use and its self-contained which it needs to be to be an AST.
You are a tenant; indeed all lodgers are tenants but it's just that they're a different type of tenant than those who rent an entire property.
Where does he live now and do you share any facilities in the house with him? That will determine what type of tenancy you have. If they share a kitchen, bathroom or living room with you, then you would be an excluded tenant; if they don't share any living space (e.g. by living in the annexe), then you would be a tenant with basic protection.
If you're an excluded tenant according to the definition above, it means you're excluded from any protection. To end the tenancy, the landlord only needs to give you ‘reasonable notice’ to quit. As I mentioned earlier, this often means the length of the rental payment period – so if you pay rent weekly, it's 1 week’s notice; pay fortnightly and it's a fortnight etc. As an aside, the notice doesn’t have to be in writing and the landlord can change the locks on the lodger’s room at the end of the notice period, even if they’ve left their belongings there. You may or may not have a tenancy agreement; having an agreement in itself doesn't make you a tenant with basic protection.
If you're a tenant with basic protection, the landlord has to give written notice and the notice period is defined in the tenancy agreement. If it isn't defined or there isn't a written tenancy agreement, it's 4 weeks if you pay weekly and a month if you pay monthly. As I understand it, the notice periods cannot be less than these but you might want to check. If you don't leave at the end of the notice period, the landlord can't just change the locks unlike in an excluded tenancy, and they would have to get a court order to evict you. There's also some extra stuff if the property is sold while you're still in the property.
Even if you started out as a tenant with basic protection, if you started to share a kitchen, bathroom etc., then you will now be an excluded tenant. HMO just means that there are 3 or more tenants (large HMO if 5 or more) and there are additional things which the landlord has to do like have a licence; the rest is still as above if your landlord lives in the same property.
Bearing all that in mind, are you an excluded tenant or do you have basic protection?
Where does he live now and do you share any facilities in the house with him? That will determine what type of tenancy you have. If they share a kitchen, bathroom or living room with you, then you would be an excluded tenant; if they don't share any living space (e.g. by living in the annexe), then you would be a tenant with basic protection.
If you're an excluded tenant according to the definition above, it means you're excluded from any protection. To end the tenancy, the landlord only needs to give you ‘reasonable notice’ to quit. As I mentioned earlier, this often means the length of the rental payment period – so if you pay rent weekly, it's 1 week’s notice; pay fortnightly and it's a fortnight etc. As an aside, the notice doesn’t have to be in writing and the landlord can change the locks on the lodger’s room at the end of the notice period, even if they’ve left their belongings there. You may or may not have a tenancy agreement; having an agreement in itself doesn't make you a tenant with basic protection.
If you're a tenant with basic protection, the landlord has to give written notice and the notice period is defined in the tenancy agreement. If it isn't defined or there isn't a written tenancy agreement, it's 4 weeks if you pay weekly and a month if you pay monthly. As I understand it, the notice periods cannot be less than these but you might want to check. If you don't leave at the end of the notice period, the landlord can't just change the locks unlike in an excluded tenancy, and they would have to get a court order to evict you. There's also some extra stuff if the property is sold while you're still in the property.
Even if you started out as a tenant with basic protection, if you started to share a kitchen, bathroom etc., then you will now be an excluded tenant. HMO just means that there are 3 or more tenants (large HMO if 5 or more) and there are additional things which the landlord has to do like have a licence; the rest is still as above if your landlord lives in the same property.
Bearing all that in mind, are you an excluded tenant or do you have basic protection?
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