Discussion
A lot of people here seem confused that you can subsequently get nicked on roadworthiness grounds for driving/riding a vehicle which has passed an MOT test. Not only do vehicles obviously change condition between the MOT test and the potential offence (things wear out / get replaced / modified) but an MOT test is not, and never has been, a pass/fail test for full compliance with legal standards of roadworthiness under various conditions of usage.
Red Devil said:
If the Certificate has a VT32 regarding the lights (or lack of them: see below) how can the MOT be valid when the vehicle is driven at night given that the lights which have been fitted subsquently have never been tested? The latter is a material change to the vehicle as originally presented. .
In exactly the same way that if you pass the MOT then go and buy and fit different wheels and tyres for your car it doesn't make the original MOT invalid despite the different wheels and tyres not being testedRetroman said:
What do you mean by 'dodgy'? If there has been no change to the as tested condition* then I don't see the problem.
i.e. those which have neither front nor rear position lamps, or has such lamps permanently disconnected, painted over or masked.
You keep highlighting 1 of 3 options. If the lights are masked up and not disconnected they should still be ignored and MOT pass and advice.
The reason they will advise it, is because it's easy to unmask lights. It's easy to reconnect lights and nothing stopping them doing either of these things as soon as they leave the MOT centre so noting it covers the inspectors back.
i.e. those which have neither front nor rear position lamps, or has such lamps permanently disconnected, painted over or masked.
You keep highlighting 1 of 3 options. If the lights are masked up and not disconnected they should still be ignored and MOT pass and advice.
The reason they will advise it, is because it's easy to unmask lights. It's easy to reconnect lights and nothing stopping them doing either of these things as soon as they leave the MOT centre so noting it covers the inspectors back.
Have a place in south Wales an spend a fair bit of time up the valley on a dirt bike
Police don't bat an eye if they see you with no lights
People refer to it as a "daylight mot due to the fact you can only use the bike in good viability.
If it's dusk/dark or raining you shouldn't be riding and you can be pulled
If your lights start working or you fit lights after after a daylight mot it doesn't matter the restriction still applies till you pass a "full mot
My brake light is always uncovered an fully working before I leave the test station
Police don't bat an eye if they see you with no lights
People refer to it as a "daylight mot due to the fact you can only use the bike in good viability.
If it's dusk/dark or raining you shouldn't be riding and you can be pulled
If your lights start working or you fit lights after after a daylight mot it doesn't matter the restriction still applies till you pass a "full mot
My brake light is always uncovered an fully working before I leave the test station
Retroman said:
Red Devil said:
If the Certificate has a VT32 regarding the lights (or lack of them: see below) how can the MOT be valid when the vehicle is driven at night given that the lights which have been fitted subsquently have never been tested? The latter is a material change to the vehicle as originally presented. .
In exactly the same way that if you pass the MOT then go and buy and fit different wheels and tyres for your car it doesn't make the original MOT invalid despite the different wheels and tyres not being testedAny VT32 advisory for low tread depth would not prohibit me from driving after dark or in conditions of low visibilty, so your analogy is not exact.
Retroman said:
Red Devil said:
What do you mean by 'dodgy'? If there has been no change to the as tested condition* then I don't see the problem.
i.e. those which have neither front nor rear position lamps, or has such lamps permanently disconnected, painted over or masked.
The reason they will advise it, is because it's easy to unmask lights. It's easy to reconnect lights and nothing stopping them doing either of these things as soon as they leave the MOT centre so noting it covers the inspectors back.
The bit I have converted to italics above is a verbatim quote from the DVSA MOT Testing Manual.
f1rob said:
If your lights start working or you fit lights after after a daylight mot it doesn't matter the restriction still applies till you pass a "full mot
That's my take on it too. I wouldn't want to risk arguing the toss with a police officer at the side of the road should he/she want to delve into the matter.Much less potential hassle to get it retested with no VT32.
Red Devil said:
ISWYM. However my tyres (wheels are not a testable item AFAIK), when tested, would either pass or fail. It's binary.
That applies to all testable items, they all either pass or fail. There's nothing special about lights in this regard.Red Devil said:
Any VT32 advisory for low tread depth would not prohibit me from driving after dark or in conditions of low visibilty, so your analogy is not exact.
The analogy may not be exact, but are you seriously still arguing that a bike must go through another MOT if the lights are refitted?The MOT itself does not prohibit you from driving at night or in reduced visibility, all you get is an advisory stating that the lights were not tested as not fitted. What prohibits you is (IIRC) The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations.
Edited by Mr2Mike on Tuesday 19th September 15:07
What we need is the law on use with the position lamps covered over (all that stuff). By no means an expert, but a quick google reveals:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/made (The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989).
There is the complete exemption between the hours of sunrise and sunset for vehicles with no position lamps (MoT not mentioned of course).
So as far as I can see there is nothing that means you need a new MoT if you refit the position lamps (or otherwise enable). Provided the lighting system then meets the lighting regs, you are good to go.
Bert
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/made (The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989).
There is the complete exemption between the hours of sunrise and sunset for vehicles with no position lamps (MoT not mentioned of course).
So as far as I can see there is nothing that means you need a new MoT if you refit the position lamps (or otherwise enable). Provided the lighting system then meets the lighting regs, you are good to go.
Bert
A similar situation re non fitment of parts crops up with IVA for a kitcar....not lighting but an example of what can be done.
Windscreen demisting method is a requirement. However, you can take car ( usually Lotus 7 types do this) without a windscreen. It will pass. You can then retro fit a windscreen.
I don't know of any subsequent issues at MOT re demisters.
Re lights...it is when vivibility is impaired due to fog/failing light that the laws re lighting cover. Daylight/no fog etc mean no side/main lights is ok. Get caught by fog coming down though and you can't then continue.
Windscreen demisting method is a requirement. However, you can take car ( usually Lotus 7 types do this) without a windscreen. It will pass. You can then retro fit a windscreen.
I don't know of any subsequent issues at MOT re demisters.
Re lights...it is when vivibility is impaired due to fog/failing light that the laws re lighting cover. Daylight/no fog etc mean no side/main lights is ok. Get caught by fog coming down though and you can't then continue.
what? no s
t? When you need to have lights on and you haven't got any, you can't drive... who'd a thunk it 
t? When you need to have lights on and you haven't got any, you can't drive... who'd a thunk it sospan said:
Re lights...it is when vivibility is impaired due to fog/failing light that the laws re lighting cover. Daylight/no fog etc mean no side/main lights is ok. Get caught by fog coming down though and you can't then continue.
Oceanrower said:
Well, I'm glad to see that PH came up with the definitive, one way or the other, answer!
The answer is that "a daytime MOT" is just shorthand for "a (an?) MOT with an advisory about the lack of lights".The MOT test and legality are two different things.
If the vehicle has an MOT, then the police are concerned with its legality under the Construction and Use regulations.
If it has no lights and is being ridden in daylight when there is no fog, sleet, or falling snow, then it's legal.
If it has all the lights required by law, then it's legal at any time and in any conditions.
So, yes, you can have the vehicle tested with no lights, then refit them and use it at night without having to put it through another test.
A1VDY said:
Wtf would anyone want to ride/drive with no lights?? No indicators on a bike excepted, being without a headlight or brake light is bordering on stupidity and puts your own and others safety in jeopardy. Should be an instant fail..
It is a case of ALL lights or NO lightsI put a hill climber on the road and I had no intention of using it for anything other than sunny weekends - I did fit brake lights and indicators but I had to tape then up for the MOT
A few old things don't have any lights and use hand signals
A1VDY said:
Wtf would anyone want to ride/drive with no lights?? No indicators on a bike excepted, being without a headlight or brake light is bordering on stupidity and puts your own and others safety in jeopardy. Should be an instant fail..
Why would you need a headlight if you're only riding it in clear conditions?For the brake light, just use hand signals
https://i.stack.imgur.com/ujJ7P.png
Retroman said:
A1VDY said:
Wtf would anyone want to ride/drive with no lights?? No indicators on a bike excepted, being without a headlight or brake light is bordering on stupidity and puts your own and others safety in jeopardy. Should be an instant fail..
Why would you need a headlight if you're only riding it in clear conditions?For the brake light, just use hand signals
https://i.stack.imgur.com/ujJ7P.png
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff