Someone got caught speeding, might have been me.

[NickM450]

Hi all,

I'll keep this as short as I can, I work for a food delivery company and drive HGVs on multi-drop routes. There are roughly 170 drivers at the depot where I work and we all drive different vehicles on a daily basis as well as some vans. The lorries obviously have Tachographs so the driver of said vehicle at any given time can easily be found, the vans however are a different story, with no tachographs and no paperwork (at the time) to say 100% who was driving.

Today I was pulled in a manager's office and was told I had been caught speeding, they were 99% certain it was me so they have put my name forward to the authorities and I'll be hearing from them with my ticket shortly.

Two question, firstly, the offence happened on the 12/07 this year, I was under the impression that there was a time limit. Is this the case or just urban legend?

Secondly, if they are not 100% certain it was me can I still be prosecuted?

I can really not remember what I was doing 2 months ago or what vehicle I was driving. My tachograph records show I removed my card from a lorry at 12:30 that day but has no other records, the only other evidence is that I clocked out 30 minutes after the camera caught the vehicle speeding. It is quite possible it was me but also quite possible it was somebody else, where do I stand?

Thanks

[SantaBarbara]

You are Innocent until Proved guilty

[anonymous-user]

Have you got an andriod phone there is a tracking function on it.

[SantaBarbara]

Take it up with your Union

[NickM450]

SantaBarbara said:

You are Innocent until Proved guilty

Well that's part of the problem, work have already provided the authorities with my name, surely that is an admition of guilt, albeit by them.

The Spruce goose said:

Have you got an andriod phone there is a tracking function on it.

Yes I have, where is that information?

SantaBarbara said:

Take it up with your Union

Work don't recognise a union, I'm not a member of any union anyway.

[Pica-Pica]

I think the tachograph is the clue here. If you cannot remember, and the company's records are inadequate, you may escape. If the company does not know, they will take the rap as registered keeper. They may also take the rap for inadequate record keeping under either Health and Safety, Employment Law, or Transport Law.

[anonymous-user]

https://www.androidcentral.com/how-view-your-locat...

[NickM450]

Thanks Pica-Pica, I don't mind taking the points/fine but only if I'm the culprit. The issue I have is that they have provided my name and I'm worried this will constitute proof. But they have no records to prove that 100%.

As for the location thing, luckily or maybe unluckily, that feature has been switched off.

[TooMany2cvs]

NickM450 said:

...the vans however are a different story, with no tachographs and no paperwork (at the time) to say 100% who was driving.

But plenty of other documentary evidence as to who was driving which van on what route on what day, right...?

NickM450 said:

Two question, firstly, the offence happened on the 12/07 this year, I was under the impression that there was a time limit. Is this the case or just urban legend?

It's true. The NIP has to be sent to the registered keeper within a fortnight. Who's that? Lease company?

NickM450 said:

Secondly, if they are not 100% certain it was me can I still be prosecuted?

They don't do the prosecution. They say who they believe was driving. That person then gets to admit it was them, or deny it.

NickM450 said:

I can really not remember what I was doing 2 months ago or what vehicle I was driving.

Have you asked to see the company's records of who was driving that van that day, or what you were driving? It's very simple - they have to keep reasonable records. If you need to see those records to help make your mind up, then you need to see those records. It would not be reasonable for them to prevent you. You surely sign the van/route/delivery out, you don't just grab a random set of keys to whatever's parked up, and bimble off, right?

NickM450 said:

the only other evidence is that I clocked out 30 minutes after the camera caught the vehicle speeding.

How far away from base was the camera? Is it feasible, timewise, that you'd be back, parked, sorted out, and clocking out within 30min?

[WonkeyDonkey]

The Spruce goose said:

Have you got an andriod phone there is a tracking function on it.

Yes I have, where is that information?

Go into maps > tap the lines in the top left corner next to the search bar > your timeline

[NickM450]

TooMany2cvs said:

NickM450 said:

...the vans however are a different story, with no tachographs and no paperwork (at the time) to say 100% who was driving.

But plenty of other documentary evidence as to who was driving which van on what route on what day, right...?

NickM450 said:

Two question, firstly, the offence happened on the 12/07 this year, I was under the impression that there was a time limit. Is this the case or just urban legend?

It's true. The NIP has to be sent to the registered keeper within a fortnight. Who's that? Lease company?

NickM450 said:

Secondly, if they are not 100% certain it was me can I still be prosecuted?

They don't do the prosecution. They say who they believe was driving. That person then gets to admit it was them, or deny it.

NickM450 said:

I can really not remember what I was doing 2 months ago or what vehicle I was driving.

Have you asked to see the company's records of who was driving that van that day, or what you were driving? It's very simple - they have to keep reasonable records. If you need to see those records to help make your mind up, then you need to see those records. It would not be reasonable for them to prevent you. You surely sign the van/route/delivery out, you don't just grab a random set of keys to whatever's parked up, and bimble off, right?

NickM450 said:

the only other evidence is that I clocked out 30 minutes after the camera caught the vehicle speeding.

How far away from base was the camera? Is it feasible, timewise, that you'd be back, parked, sorted out, and clocking out within 30min?

The vans are indeed allocated a route, for the first runs in the morning. They have drivers names and where they are going. After they complete that run, they are parked up and anyone can use them. At the time of the incident there was no paperwork to say who takes a van after the initial route and no one signs them out or gets a manager to sign them out. Since the incident however, things have been put in place and now, if a driver remembers, the vans are signed out.

Dont know who that particular van belongs to, we have a mix of owned and rented vans but that can be easily found out. As for the time, it could certainly be done within the 30 minutes or so since the ticket was issued.

Edited by NickM450 on Wednesday 20th September 19:55

[xjay1337]

Ask to see photographic evidence if they have it.

It's on them to PROVE beyond reasonable doubt that you were driving.

The directors of the business can get in a lot of trouble if records are not being kept appropriately. Ideally every van should be signed out and back in at a given time with a unique identifier for each driver.

[NickM450]

xjay1337 said:

Ask to see photographic evidence if they have it.

It's on them to PROVE beyond reasonable doubt that you were driving.

The directors of the business can get in a lot of trouble if records are not being kept appropriately. Ideally every van should be signed out and back in at a given time with a unique identifier for each driver.

Apparently they don't, rear facing camera or so I was told. As for the directors/company getting in trouble, that would explain why the manager was so keen for me to admit it. At the time, we were a very new depot and no records of the vans were being kept beyond their allocated route and even now the records are very hit and miss as it's only done if a driver remembers it.

[TooMany2cvs]

WonkeyDonkey said:

Go into maps > tap the lines in the top left corner next to the search bar > your timeline

I've just tried that on my Android phone, and it simply says "No information" across about a week in July, even though I know my phone was on t'internet for at least some of that time.

[Sheepshanks]

NickM450 said:

Well that's part of the problem, work have already provided the authorities with my name, surely that is an admition of guilt, albeit by them.

errr....no.

[Chester draws]

No records? No vehicle checks? No trackers?

Blimey! I would have thought any outfit running that many vans (and especially hgvs) would have to have watertight paperwork or digital records for every vehicle.

I can't take my van anywhere without completing a vehicle check and having it signed out.

[NickM450]

The heavy goods stuff yes, without a doubt, the vans on the other hand at the time were a free for all, we only have 3 or 4 of them.

[JM]

WonkeyDonkey said:

The Spruce goose said:

Have you got an andriod phone there is a tracking function on it.

Yes I have, where is that information?

Go into maps > tap the lines in the top left corner next to the search bar > your timeline

Ofcourse, it on works if you have turned it on.

[lee_fr200]

Simply say it wasn't you and tell the managers you don't believe it was you

If there's no photographic evidence of you driving then tell them to do one

[Macneil]

would there be delivery notes for that day? Do you endorse them with your name/reg no?

TBH it sounds like your employer is a bit lax to say the least, no excuse for not knowing who was in what vehicle at any tme.

I would deny it and make them prove it, unless you need the job more than you don't need the points.