Someone got caught speeding, might have been me.

[TooMany2cvs]

I rather suspect management are really, really hoping they can find somebody to take the points - because otherwise, somebody is going to be having a very tricky chat about their abysmal record-keeping.

[Chester draws]

lee_fr200 said:

Simply say it wasn't you......

[Cat]

If you'd already been driving a HGV under EU rules that day then, under domestic rules, you should have been recording your driving of the van with either a log book or tachograph. These records should show whether or not you were the driver at the time in question.

Cat

[Terminator X]

SantaBarbara said:

You are Innocent until Proved guilty

very good.

TX.

[The Mad Monk]

NickM450 said:

The vans are indeed allocated a route, for the first runs in the morning. They have drivers names and where they are going. After they complete that run, they are parked up and anyone can use them. At the time of the incident there was no paperwork to say who takes a van after the initial route and no one signs them out or gets a manager to sign them out. Since the incident however, things have been put in place and now, if a driver remembers, the vans are signed out.

Dont know who that particular van belongs to, we have a mix of owned and rented vans but that can be easily found out. As for the time, it could certainly be done within the 30 minutes or so since the ticket was issued.

Edited by NickM450 on Wednesday 20th September 19:55

May I suggest that in future you keep your own personal time sheet, on which you record ;- day, date, reg number of vehicle taken out and approximate route. Regardless of any paperwork the company want you to keep.

If you have a phone that can record routes, then turn that feature on.

At least it will make sure that you only get tickets for offences that you have actually committed.

Sounds as though your employers need to tighten up on their record keeping.

[Cat]

The Mad Monk said:

May I suggest that in future you keep your own personal time sheet, on which you record ;- day, date, reg number of vehicle taken out and approximate route. Regardless of any paperwork the company want you to keep.

The OP had a legal requirement to do this anyway as he was driving mixed EU/GB domestic rules at the time.

Cat

[NickM450]

I obviously recorded the additional work time on my tachograph the next time I drove a vehicle that had one fitted. Pretty sure you can't differentiate between 'driving' and 'work' when doing a manual entry, I agree though, a vehicle check sheet should have been completed. I''m starting to think it may just be easier to take this one on the chin rather than try and fight it.

[Cat]

NickM450 said:

I obviously recorded the additional work time on my tachograph the next time I drove a vehicle that had one fitted.

In addition to this you should be recording your driving time under GB domestic rules in a logbook it the vehicle you are using has no tacho.

Cat

[havoc]

NickM450 said:

I obviously recorded the additional work time on my tachograph the next time I drove a vehicle that had one fitted. Pretty sure you can't differentiate between 'driving' and 'work' when doing a manual entry, I agree though, a vehicle check sheet should have been completed. I''m starting to think it may just be easier to take this one on the chin rather than try and fight it.

Why? Because your boss is pressuring you to? Seriously?

Talk to your boss, ask to see what paperwork the company has and why they're certain it's you. Don't be confrontational, just say that it's 2 months ago which is a long time to remember things, your phone wasn't geo-locating at that time so you've no evidence either way, and you want to be sure it's you before you take a fine and 3 points. Far from an unreasonable request.


Last question - how long have you worked there, and are you employed or contracted?

[MorganP104]

TooMany2cvs said:

I rather suspect management are really, really hoping they can find somebody to take the points - because otherwise, somebody is going to be having a very tricky chat about their abysmal record-keeping.

This, I believe, gets to the nub of it.

If you are going to take the ticket on the chin, make it plain-as-day to your boss that you know you're digging them out of a massive hole by keeping your trap shut about the poor record-keeping, and that as a result of your "falling on your sword" heroics, he owes you a favour.

It depends on whether being owed a favour by your boss is worth 3 points and a fine to you, I suppose.

[NickM450]

Cat said:

In addition to this you should be recording your driving time under GB domestic rules in a logbook it the vehicle you are using has no tacho.

Cat

Really? I've only been driving 7 years so still quite new but I've never heard of that and never been asked to do so. Mind you, I've only worked for one company and the most we've had to do is sign out non tacho vehicles, no me tion of recording driving time etc.

The place is a bit of a shambles at the moment, there were systems in place at the old depot and they now have them in place at the new one so they know they've done wrong, someone was caught the day before me.

I really don't want to take it on the chin, it could have been any of the drivers that were still on duty or even any of the warehouse staff that also take the vans out in an emergency. However, I love my job and don't want to get myself in to bother. I've been there for almost 10 years as a full time employee and can honestly see myself staying until I retire, I'm working rather hard at progressing etc. as I don't see driving being doable in another 20+ years, mainly because my body won't take it

I'll have a word with the same manager later and ask what exact evidence they have that it was me apart from just the fact that I was still working.

Edited by NickM450 on Thursday 21st September 13:32

[TooMany2cvs]

NickM450 said:

...what exact evidence they have that it was me apart from just the fact that I was still working.

So was this outside of normal hours? Could you have been the only one still signed in at the time?

[SantaBarbara]

Wait until you get the letter from the police, then write back to say that you do not know if you

[havoc]

Nick,

If you've been there 10 years then you've got enough employment rights that they can't REALLY* make trouble for you if you refuse - certainly not if you've gone about it the right way.

See the documentation (if any), then make your decision. If no evidence, or nothing truly convincing, then say so...



* There are always managers who try things on...hopefully yours isn't one of them.

[SantaBarbara]

NickM450 said:

Hi all,

I'll keep this as short as I can, I work for a food delivery company and drive HGVs on multi-drop routes. There are roughly 170 drivers at the depot where I work and we all drive different vehicles on a daily basis as well as some vans. The lorries obviously have Tachographs so the driver of said vehicle at any given time can easily be found, the vans however are a different story, with no tachographs and no paperwork (at the time) to say 100% who was driving.

Today I was pulled in a manager's office and was told I had been caught speeding, they were 99% certain it was me so they have put my name forward to the authorities and I'll be hearing from them with my ticket shortly.

Two question, firstly, the offence happened on the 12/07 this year, I was under the impression that there was a time limit. Is this the case or just urban legend?

Secondly, if they are not 100% certain it was me can I still be prosecuted?

I can really not remember what I was doing 2 months ago or what vehicle I was driving. My tachograph records show I removed my card from a lorry at 12:30 that day but has no other records, the only other evidence is that I clocked out 30 minutes after the camera caught the vehicle speeding. It is quite possible it was me but also quite possible it was somebody else, where do I stand?

Thanks

When the manager spoke to you, did they show you the document from the Police,
And if so did it show the time and location of here the incident took place?

[Red Devil]

NickM450 said:

The place is a bit of a shambles at the moment, there were systems in place at the old depot and they now have them in place at the new one so they know they've done wrong, someone was caught the day before me.

I really don't want to take it on the chin, it could have been any of the drivers that were still on duty or even any of the warehouse staff that also take the vans out in an emergency. However, I love my job and don't want to get myself in to bother. I've been there for almost 10 years as a full time employee and can honestly see myself staying until I retire, I'm working rather hard at progressing etc. as I don't see driving being doable in another 20+ years, mainly because my body won't take it

I'll have a word with the same manager later and ask what exact evidence they have that it was me apart from just the fact that I was still working.

Quite. If their record keeping is that lax from where does their 99% certainty that you were the culprit originate?*
Have you been shown a copy of the S.172 which will say when and where the alleged offence occurred?
If they can't produce it that tells you something too. In which case, wait for your NoIP/Offer of Fxed Penalty which will.
It may jog your memory that you were never/could not have been anywhere near that location at the stated time on that day.

 * What's the betting that your employer has looked for a mark (you) to take the rap?
    a) to prevent the Company (i.e. the Co Sec) being in the frame for a S.172 offence.
    b) to avoid its lack of record keeping being exposed to scrutiny by the relevant authorities.

A judgment call on your part whether to fold your tent or fight
If the latter you'll have persuade the court you have satisfied S.172(2)(b).

[NickM450]

Spoke to the same manager after my shift today, he was ever so nice and apologetic yesterday when giving me the news of the ticket, he got very defensive when I questioned any evidence. As it stands the only evidence is that I was on 'other work' at the time of the incident, they can't see any other drivers that are. That does not include any managers or warehouse staff that may have used the vehicle at the time, he has now turned around and said 'it was you'.

The CCTV only records on a 30 day loop so no good there, I did briefly see the form and know the area that the vehicle was caught, it was within a section of smart motorway which again makes me think it wasn't me as I'm always hugely careful in those areas. The problem is that it very well could have been me and I honestly don't remember.

[SantaBarbara]

NickM450 said:

Spoke to the same manager after my shift today, he was ever so nice and apologetic yesterday when giving me the news of the ticket, he got very defensive when I questioned any evidence. As it stands the only evidence is that I was on 'other work' at the time of the incident, they can't see any other drivers that are. That does not include any managers or warehouse staff that may have used the vehicle at the time, he has now turned around and said 'it was you'.

The CCTV only records on a 30 day loop so no good there, I did briefly see the form and know the area that the vehicle was caught, it was within a section of smart motorway which again makes me think it wasn't me as I'm always hugely careful in those areas. The problem is that it very well could have been me and I honestly don't remember.

therefore you are innocent

[havoc]

NickM450 said:

...he got very defensive when I questioned any evidence.

...he has now turned around and said 'it was you'.

...know the area that the vehicle was caught, it was within a section of smart motorway which again makes me think it wasn't me as I'm always hugely careful in those areas.

These three snippets stand out to me. And they paint a picture of a company that's in the wrong and wriggling to get out...


Stand your ground. If you plead not-guilty then the company will have to justify why they've nominated you, and their evidence won't be enough to convince a magistrate.


It MAY be you, but the company doesn't have any clear evidence that it was, and it's been made very clear to companies for YEARS that they need to keep clear records to avoid this sort of thing happening, so it's the company's issue, not yours. The company's failure to run proper bookkeeping shouldn't be your issue.

[Red Devil]

NickM450 said:

Spoke to the same manager after my shift today, he was ever so nice and apologetic yesterday when giving me the news of the ticket, he got very defensive when I questioned any evidence. As it stands the only evidence is that I was on 'other work' at the time of the incident, they can't see any other drivers that are. That does not include any managers or warehouse staff that may have used the vehicle at the time, he has now turned around and said 'it was you'.

How can he be sure of anything if the vans do not require tachos and the company did not keep any records of non-HGV work?
Sounds like he's a two-faced sack of se and has picked you as a convenient patsy.

It comes back to what I said earlier. If he wants to play hardball you have to decide whether to do the same.
You'll have to drop him and the firm in the soft and smelly stuff to see off the NoIP/FPN which will be winging your way.

NickM450 said:

The CCTV only records on a 30 day loop so no good there, I did briefly see the form and know the area that the vehicle was caught, it was within a section of smart motorway which again makes me think it wasn't me as I'm always hugely careful in those areas. The problem is that it very well could have been me and I honestly don't remember.

Unfortunate. Makes your task that bit more difficult.
What's the lowdown with the person who was caught the day before you?
How did their name get in the frame?