Son stopped 44 in a 30, already has 3 points, licence 2 yrs
Discussion
Some advice please from anyone on here who knows the young driver revocation rules.
On August 22nd my lad was stopped doing 44 in a 30.
He already has 3 points for a similar offence in June of this year. He has slowed down now!
The copper on the 2nd offence, mentioned he'd probably have his licence revoked as he hadn't yet held it for 2 years, and 6 points is like 12 to those of us who've held it longer.
My son does deliveries as part of his job and he's worried he could lose his job in the time it takes to re-apply for his provisional and retake both theory and practical tests. He was willing to get a letter from his employer and attend court to plead to keep his licence, but three weeks after the offence he received a Fixed Penalty offer saying it could be dealt with by £100 fine and 3 points and no court. This offer letter only gives the option of attending court if you are challenging the allegation - which he is not.
So does the mere offer of dealing with it by fixed penalty suggest his licence won't be revoked, or have all the checks not been done when they send these out?
Also the DVLA website states that "You must apply for a new provisional licence and retake both parts of your driving test if your licence is cancelled within 2 years of passing them." He passed his driving test on 28/9/15 so as it's only a week until the 2nd anniversary of his test, if we didn't send it back for another week it won't be cancelled within the 2 years?
On August 22nd my lad was stopped doing 44 in a 30.
He already has 3 points for a similar offence in June of this year. He has slowed down now!
The copper on the 2nd offence, mentioned he'd probably have his licence revoked as he hadn't yet held it for 2 years, and 6 points is like 12 to those of us who've held it longer.
My son does deliveries as part of his job and he's worried he could lose his job in the time it takes to re-apply for his provisional and retake both theory and practical tests. He was willing to get a letter from his employer and attend court to plead to keep his licence, but three weeks after the offence he received a Fixed Penalty offer saying it could be dealt with by £100 fine and 3 points and no court. This offer letter only gives the option of attending court if you are challenging the allegation - which he is not.
So does the mere offer of dealing with it by fixed penalty suggest his licence won't be revoked, or have all the checks not been done when they send these out?
Also the DVLA website states that "You must apply for a new provisional licence and retake both parts of your driving test if your licence is cancelled within 2 years of passing them." He passed his driving test on 28/9/15 so as it's only a week until the 2nd anniversary of his test, if we didn't send it back for another week it won't be cancelled within the 2 years?
stropley said:
So does the mere offer of dealing with it by fixed penalty suggest his licence won't be revoked
No.He has 3pts now.
He will get a 3pt FPN for this, so will have 6pts. The court do not, cannot, will not send the licence back with 6pts marked on it or a duration of TT99 ban, because 6pts within 2yrs of first test pass means revocation, not a ban.
He is not going to court to be banned, because he isn't being banned. His licence is being revoked.
Because he's not facing a ban, the hardship plea doesn't come into it - and, even if it did, "might lose my job" is not hardship enough on its own - he'd need to show how it seriously inconveniences others, not just him.
Oh, and it's the date of offence that's the relevant one, not the date that the licence actually gets processed. Otherwise, it'd be really easy to game it...
Unfortunately, it's the date of offence that counts, not the date of conviction. Also, unlike getting 12 points and being able to keep your licence for mitigating circumstances, this doesn't exist for 6 points in the first 2 yrs. Because he isn't being banned, just being put back to a provisional.
There's no route to appeal the reduction in his driving entitlement.
In all honesty, if he was already on 3 points, and needs his full licence to do his job, wtf was he playing at doing 44 in a 30? Crazy. But I guess he knows that.
(written before the above post appeared)
There's no route to appeal the reduction in his driving entitlement.
In all honesty, if he was already on 3 points, and needs his full licence to do his job, wtf was he playing at doing 44 in a 30? Crazy. But I guess he knows that.
(written before the above post appeared)
eybic said:
The FPN office won't know that he's not had his licence for 2 years so will be treating it as a "normal" offence. I suspect when he sends his licence off they will respond by saying he's going to lose it and will need to attend court.
They won't do this - there is no reason why he can't accept the fixed penalty. If he does, when the DVLA see that he has 6 points they'll write to him telling him that his licence is being revoked and the date that this will take effect. The revocation is an administrative process carried out by the DVLA - there's no need for a court to be involved.The only way he might avoid having his licence revoked (and it's a slender thread) would be to reject the fixed penalty, go to court, and plead with them to give him a short ban instead of points. A ban would mean that he could not drive at all for its duration, but there would be no need to retake his test afterwards, and if it was short enough and if his employer was understanding then he could cover the time with holiday, or carry out an alternative role for a couple of weeks.
His problem is that the courts have specific guidance NOT to impose a ban in preference to points in order to subvert the provisions of the New Drivers Act. However anecdotally there are some courts which either don't know this or are willing to ignore the guidelines if they hear a compelling enough case. Whether his local court would be willing and whether they'd regard his as a compelling enough case is something a local motoring solicitor with experience of the court in question might be able to advise him on.
stropley said:
He has slowed down now!
Well, apparently not enough 
Everything Twig said sounds right, although this link suggests a revocation isn't inevitable (although I thought it was):
http://www.forsterdean.co.uk/how-new-drivers-can-a...
AGT is your man here though.
I'd be checking at what point your lad needs to stop driving too - just in case.
Aretnap said:
They won't do this - there is no reason why he can't accept the fixed penalty. If he does, when the DVLA see that he has 6 points they'll write to him telling him that his licence is being revoked and the date that this will take effect. The revocation is an administrative process carried out by the DVLA - there's no need for a court to be involved.
The only way he might avoid having his licence revoked (and it's a slender thread) would be to reject the fixed penalty, go to court, and plead with them to give him a short ban instead of points. A ban would mean that he could not drive at all for its duration, but there would be no need to retake his test afterwards, and if it was short enough and if his employer was understanding then he could cover the time with holiday, or carry out an alternative role for a couple of weeks.
His problem is that the courts have specific guidance NOT to impose a ban in preference to points in order to subvert the provisions of the New Drivers Act. However anecdotally there are some courts which either don't know this or are willing to ignore the guidelines if they hear a compelling enough case. Whether his local court would be willing and whether they'd regard his as a compelling enough case is something a local motoring solicitor with experience of the court in question might be able to advise him on.
That could back fire and end up with costs and higher fine.The only way he might avoid having his licence revoked (and it's a slender thread) would be to reject the fixed penalty, go to court, and plead with them to give him a short ban instead of points. A ban would mean that he could not drive at all for its duration, but there would be no need to retake his test afterwards, and if it was short enough and if his employer was understanding then he could cover the time with holiday, or carry out an alternative role for a couple of weeks.
His problem is that the courts have specific guidance NOT to impose a ban in preference to points in order to subvert the provisions of the New Drivers Act. However anecdotally there are some courts which either don't know this or are willing to ignore the guidelines if they hear a compelling enough case. Whether his local court would be willing and whether they'd regard his as a compelling enough case is something a local motoring solicitor with experience of the court in question might be able to advise him on.
I believe AGT Law will tell you better but they are fairly zero tolerance on 2 year under licence holders.
44 in a 30 is not low end speeding.
He will learn his lesson the hardest way possible I think and lose a jobs and licence in the process.
In my experience of these cases there is not much hope.
surveyor_101 said:
44 in a 30 is not low end speeding.
No, it's certainly why he's not had the tea and biccies proffered...Do we guess that tea and biccies weren't on offer last time, either, because of the number? Or has he already done one, and this is actually strike three?
A tad resistant to clue, at any rate. But, at that age, which of us weren't...
Monkeylegend said:
Do they offer a speed awareness course for a less than 2 year licence holder or is it a 3 pointer?
I don't think there's any inherent restriction on tea and biccies for yoof - and somebody within the 2yr period would be VERY well advised if it's offered...But 44 in a 30 is outside the usually-claimed SAC range, which tops out at 32. FPN tops out at 50 on that chart.
surveyor_101 said:
Aretnap said:
They won't do this - there is no reason why he can't accept the fixed penalty. If he does, when the DVLA see that he has 6 points they'll write to him telling him that his licence is being revoked and the date that this will take effect. The revocation is an administrative process carried out by the DVLA - there's no need for a court to be involved.
The only way he might avoid having his licence revoked (and it's a slender thread) would be to reject the fixed penalty, go to court, and plead with them to give him a short ban instead of points. A ban would mean that he could not drive at all for its duration, but there would be no need to retake his test afterwards, and if it was short enough and if his employer was understanding then he could cover the time with holiday, or carry out an alternative role for a couple of weeks.
His problem is that the courts have specific guidance NOT to impose a ban in preference to points in order to subvert the provisions of the New Drivers Act. However anecdotally there are some courts which either don't know this or are willing to ignore the guidelines if they hear a compelling enough case. Whether his local court would be willing and whether they'd regard his as a compelling enough case is something a local motoring solicitor with experience of the court in question might be able to advise him on.
That could back fire and end up with costs and higher fine.The only way he might avoid having his licence revoked (and it's a slender thread) would be to reject the fixed penalty, go to court, and plead with them to give him a short ban instead of points. A ban would mean that he could not drive at all for its duration, but there would be no need to retake his test afterwards, and if it was short enough and if his employer was understanding then he could cover the time with holiday, or carry out an alternative role for a couple of weeks.
His problem is that the courts have specific guidance NOT to impose a ban in preference to points in order to subvert the provisions of the New Drivers Act. However anecdotally there are some courts which either don't know this or are willing to ignore the guidelines if they hear a compelling enough case. Whether his local court would be willing and whether they'd regard his as a compelling enough case is something a local motoring solicitor with experience of the court in question might be able to advise him on.
I believe AGT Law will tell you better but they are fairly zero tolerance on 2 year under licence holders.
44 in a 30 is not low end speeding.
He will learn his lesson the hardest way possible I think and lose a jobs and licence in the process.
In my experience of these cases there is not much hope.
No, 44 in a 30 is killing speed for pedestrians. That would be a 'harder' lesson.
Monkeylegend said:
Do they offer a speed awareness course for a less than 2 year licence holder or is it a 3 pointer?
Thanks for the answers so far . . . even though it's not looking good. I don't think he will lose his job cos they like him and others can do deliveries. I'm hoping driving a fork lift on the work premises wouldn't be affected?His first offence was Gatso and was 34 in a 30 I think. He was offered the speed awareness course the first time but didn't take it due to time constraints. Also I think I might have put him off when I described the one I went on
stropley said:
Monkeylegend said:
Do they offer a speed awareness course for a less than 2 year licence holder or is it a 3 pointer?
Thanks for the answers so far . . . even though it's not looking good. I don't think he will lose his job cos they like him and others can do deliveries. I'm hoping driving a fork lift on the work premises wouldn't be affected?His first offence was Gatso and was 34 in a 30 I think. He was offered the speed awareness course the first time but didn't take it due to time constraints. Also I think I might have put him off when I described the one I went on
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