Next Steps- Overhang branches
Discussion
Hi,
I am seeking some advice / legal steps to resolve a current issue with my "neighbour".
I live at the end house of a cul-de-sac with the side of the house backing against a school fence i.e. I have a side-gate + (~ 1.5 meter wide) path which separate my property and the school fencing. Within the school boundary (directly opposite the fence next to my property) are a number of trees which has grown over the year, and as a result overhang substantially over my side path and my front garden. Many of the top branches are actually pressing against the top of my house / roof (by the side of my house), and trees at the front overhang ~ 10-12 foots over my front drive. For any overhanging trees/shrubs in my garden, I would pop into my neighbour and tell them I would be trimming back their plants, and give them the option to keep the cuttings. Always works fine and everyone is happy, but these overhang branches are way too big and high for me to tackle. However, we approach the school back in May/June requesting they trim back their overhanging branches on my property, but they replied they couldn't trim the trees until the end of the nesting season / around October. [We noticed (hard not to given the noisy chainsaw they used) they were trimming the other trees in their playground back in late July!]
With Oct just round the corner, we plan to contact the school again to request for a firm date for them to cut their overhanging trees. If they comply, this will be a non-issue, but what are my legal rights if the school refuse or delay to commit a date to cut the overhanging branches?
Can I report this to the Local Authorities if the school refuse to play ball?
Can I book in a tree guy to trim the overhanging branches, and bill the school/LA?
Thanks
Tom
I am seeking some advice / legal steps to resolve a current issue with my "neighbour".
I live at the end house of a cul-de-sac with the side of the house backing against a school fence i.e. I have a side-gate + (~ 1.5 meter wide) path which separate my property and the school fencing. Within the school boundary (directly opposite the fence next to my property) are a number of trees which has grown over the year, and as a result overhang substantially over my side path and my front garden. Many of the top branches are actually pressing against the top of my house / roof (by the side of my house), and trees at the front overhang ~ 10-12 foots over my front drive. For any overhanging trees/shrubs in my garden, I would pop into my neighbour and tell them I would be trimming back their plants, and give them the option to keep the cuttings. Always works fine and everyone is happy, but these overhang branches are way too big and high for me to tackle. However, we approach the school back in May/June requesting they trim back their overhanging branches on my property, but they replied they couldn't trim the trees until the end of the nesting season / around October. [We noticed (hard not to given the noisy chainsaw they used) they were trimming the other trees in their playground back in late July!]
With Oct just round the corner, we plan to contact the school again to request for a firm date for them to cut their overhanging trees. If they comply, this will be a non-issue, but what are my legal rights if the school refuse or delay to commit a date to cut the overhanging branches?
Can I report this to the Local Authorities if the school refuse to play ball?
Can I book in a tree guy to trim the overhanging branches, and bill the school/LA?
Thanks
Tom
1) I would not have let it get to 10-12 feet overhang. I would contact the school, by letter, and the local authority, and say you want a committed dat within a week. That date has to be within (say) 1 month. If you do not get a date within a week, you will hire a gardening firm to cut the tree back and charge them. Also any damage found, or caused by the felling will be their responsibility. All written nice and politely. I personally feel your 'nest' trumps the bird's nest.
1) Check if the trees have a Tree Preservation Order on them, or are located in a Conservation Area.
2) Cut the branches that overhang your property: you are entitled to do so.
3) Offer the cut branches back to the school: the timber is their legal property. If the decline it, you can dispose of it as you wish.
They are semi-correct about the bird nesting issue: it is an offence to disturb nesting birds, but it is perfectly legal to trim trees and hedges in the nesting season if you've checked and there are no nests there to be disturbed.
2) Cut the branches that overhang your property: you are entitled to do so.
3) Offer the cut branches back to the school: the timber is their legal property. If the decline it, you can dispose of it as you wish.
They are semi-correct about the bird nesting issue: it is an offence to disturb nesting birds, but it is perfectly legal to trim trees and hedges in the nesting season if you've checked and there are no nests there to be disturbed.
Equus said:
1) Check if the trees have a Tree Preservation Order on them, or are located in a Conservation Area.- Not his job
2) Cut the branches that overhang your property: you are entitled to do so. - Not his job
3) Offer the cut branches back to the school: the timber is their legal property. If the decline it, you can dispose of it as you wish.- Not his job
Why should he do any of that. 2) Cut the branches that overhang your property: you are entitled to do so. - Not his job
3) Offer the cut branches back to the school: the timber is their legal property. If the decline it, you can dispose of it as you wish.- Not his job
Letter to the school will suffice I'm sure , its just been forgotten
I'll be interested in the reply to this as we're in almost the same situation, except:
1) Footpath next to us - then "unclaimed" strip, then gardens of flats.
2) This - tree on "unclaimed strip, sycamore, ~45ft high, overgrowing path, now contacting side of flats, now overhanging our low roof and within a couple of years will overhang the high roof has been going on for about 8 years.
Tree protection order on tree for last 8 years, we want to trim it, flats freeholder / leaseholder wants to trim it yet council will only let cuttings back to a certain diameter be taken - which seems to vary from year to year but has never been greater than 8 cm - which now means the contacting / overhanging branches are all that size or greater.
Both ourselves and the flats have asked "what happens if the tree does damage" to receive the same stock reply in writing on more than one occasion, reversed around that "if the tree is damaged by a non council instructed aborculturologist by default those whom have expressed in writing a desire to cut down the tree will be deemed to be a first line of inquiry against a breech of the TPO". [Spelling mistakes and made up tree cutter name courtesy of the council].
Both us and the flats have gone through the council complaints procedure to top level and then got rejected for further investigation at LGO level "which concluded that the council is following their corporate strategy and correct tree protection law, but recognise that their framework leaves us concerns". Local councilor for our Ward is a green tree-hugger and opines "that is what you have insurance for".
However, I don't really want to be in the day the tree damages a roof and insurance claims go in as whilst I've sent copies of correspondence to my insurers (and probably am paying over the odds for staying with them) I'm not sure what else to do.
1) Footpath next to us - then "unclaimed" strip, then gardens of flats.
2) This - tree on "unclaimed strip, sycamore, ~45ft high, overgrowing path, now contacting side of flats, now overhanging our low roof and within a couple of years will overhang the high roof has been going on for about 8 years.
Tree protection order on tree for last 8 years, we want to trim it, flats freeholder / leaseholder wants to trim it yet council will only let cuttings back to a certain diameter be taken - which seems to vary from year to year but has never been greater than 8 cm - which now means the contacting / overhanging branches are all that size or greater.
Both ourselves and the flats have asked "what happens if the tree does damage" to receive the same stock reply in writing on more than one occasion, reversed around that "if the tree is damaged by a non council instructed aborculturologist by default those whom have expressed in writing a desire to cut down the tree will be deemed to be a first line of inquiry against a breech of the TPO". [Spelling mistakes and made up tree cutter name courtesy of the council].
Both us and the flats have gone through the council complaints procedure to top level and then got rejected for further investigation at LGO level "which concluded that the council is following their corporate strategy and correct tree protection law, but recognise that their framework leaves us concerns". Local councilor for our Ward is a green tree-hugger and opines "that is what you have insurance for".
However, I don't really want to be in the day the tree damages a roof and insurance claims go in as whilst I've sent copies of correspondence to my insurers (and probably am paying over the odds for staying with them) I'm not sure what else to do.
Equus said:
liner33 said:
Why should he do any of that.
Letter to the school will suffice I'm sure , its just been forgotten
Because he asked:Letter to the school will suffice I'm sure , its just been forgotten
Chip* said:
...what are my legal rights if the school refuse or delay to commit a date to cut the overhanging branches?
Its the schools responsibility to sort it and they are too big for him to do anyhow.
Contacting the school is the first step (Not the ****** TPO) and there are very many more steps before having to flex legal muscles
Equus said:
1) 2) Cut the branches that overhang your property: you are entitled to do so.
I would do this normally, but in this case, the branches are waaaayyy too high for me to cut without risking my life!! i.e. I don't have the equipment / ladder to reach the height of the overhanging branches.liner33 said:
Selective reading and quoting of the OP there
Its the schools responsibility to sort it and they are too big for him to do anyhow.
Contacting the school is the first step (Not the ****** TPO) and there are very many more steps before having to flex legal muscles
Its the schools responsibility to sort it and they are too big for him to do anyhow.
Contacting the school is the first step (Not the ****** TPO) and there are very many more steps before having to flex legal muscles
You're obviously looking for an argument. Or perhaps just trying to cover your embarrassment at having made an antagonistic post without actually having read the question?The OP has told us he has already contacted the school. He asked what to do if they refuse, or decline to give a firm date (from which anyone but an anally retentive f
kwit would draw the reasonable conclusion that he intends to chase them up before taking further action).The school has no 'responsibility to sort it': they may be held liable for any damaged caused, but it its their decision whether they take pre-emptive action. It is well established that occupiers have a right to trim non-TPO'd/protected branches overhanging their property though, provided that they offer the cuttings back to the owner of the tree.
It's not 'flexing legal muscles', it's routine maintenance of your property in line with established practice.
StanleyT said:
I'll be interested in the reply to this as we're in almost the same situation, except:
1) Footpath next to us - then "unclaimed" strip, then gardens of flats.
2) This - tree on "unclaimed strip, sycamore, ~45ft high, overgrowing path, now contacting side of flats, now overhanging our low roof and within a couple of years will overhang the high roof has been going on for about 8 years.
Tree protection order on tree for last 8 years, we want to trim it, flats freeholder / leaseholder wants to trim it yet council will only let cuttings back to a certain diameter be taken - which seems to vary from year to year but has never been greater than 8 cm - which now means the contacting / overhanging branches are all that size or greater.
Both ourselves and the flats have asked "what happens if the tree does damage" to receive the same stock reply in writing on more than one occasion, reversed around that "if the tree is damaged by a non council instructed aborculturologist by default those whom have expressed in writing a desire to cut down the tree will be deemed to be a first line of inquiry against a breech of the TPO". [Spelling mistakes and made up tree cutter name courtesy of the council].
Both us and the flats have gone through the council complaints procedure to top level and then got rejected for further investigation at LGO level "which concluded that the council is following their corporate strategy and correct tree protection law, but recognise that their framework leaves us concerns". Local councilor for our Ward is a green tree-hugger and opines "that is what you have insurance for".
However, I don't really want to be in the day the tree damages a roof and insurance claims go in as whilst I've sent copies of correspondence to my insurers (and probably am paying over the odds for staying with them) I'm not sure what else to do.
Unusual to have a TPO on a Sycamore, someone will have applied for it and probably not the council. Sounds like you have a difficult LA. They can be appealed if you make a decent case, they arent set in stone. 1) Footpath next to us - then "unclaimed" strip, then gardens of flats.
2) This - tree on "unclaimed strip, sycamore, ~45ft high, overgrowing path, now contacting side of flats, now overhanging our low roof and within a couple of years will overhang the high roof has been going on for about 8 years.
Tree protection order on tree for last 8 years, we want to trim it, flats freeholder / leaseholder wants to trim it yet council will only let cuttings back to a certain diameter be taken - which seems to vary from year to year but has never been greater than 8 cm - which now means the contacting / overhanging branches are all that size or greater.
Both ourselves and the flats have asked "what happens if the tree does damage" to receive the same stock reply in writing on more than one occasion, reversed around that "if the tree is damaged by a non council instructed aborculturologist by default those whom have expressed in writing a desire to cut down the tree will be deemed to be a first line of inquiry against a breech of the TPO". [Spelling mistakes and made up tree cutter name courtesy of the council].
Both us and the flats have gone through the council complaints procedure to top level and then got rejected for further investigation at LGO level "which concluded that the council is following their corporate strategy and correct tree protection law, but recognise that their framework leaves us concerns". Local councilor for our Ward is a green tree-hugger and opines "that is what you have insurance for".
However, I don't really want to be in the day the tree damages a roof and insurance claims go in as whilst I've sent copies of correspondence to my insurers (and probably am paying over the odds for staying with them) I'm not sure what else to do.
Sycamores can grow very quickly and become a real nuisance . We had a mature one in the garden and it was huge, had a habit of dropping large boughs in the summer which was a real hazard. I'm guessing if the LA insist that you cant remove then you cant but I cant help think that there would be an angle if someone was subsequently injured by falling branches
I had a similar issue with a school abutting my property and their first response was "our tree specialists don't think the trees need trimming". I wrote back and said that I hoped that the roots weren't progressing to the point where they would affect foundations. The tree was felled the very next day. Try that.
liner33 said:
Unusual to have a TPO on a Sycamore,
Yes, most pople - including sensible Tree Officers - regard them as very large weeds. Their propensity for self-seeding doesn't make them popular, either.But a TPO is a TPO, so yes, you're stuck with making a formal application if you want to challenge it.
Equus said:
1) Check if the trees have a Tree Preservation Order on them, or are located in a Conservation Area.
2) Cut the branches that overhang your property: you are entitled to do so.
3) Offer the cut branches back to the school: the timber is their legal property. If the decline it, you can dispose of it as you wish.
They are semi-correct about the bird nesting issue: it is an offence to disturb nesting birds, but it is perfectly legal to trim trees and hedges in the nesting season if you've checked and there are no nests there to be disturbed.
what he said2) Cut the branches that overhang your property: you are entitled to do so.
3) Offer the cut branches back to the school: the timber is their legal property. If the decline it, you can dispose of it as you wish.
They are semi-correct about the bird nesting issue: it is an offence to disturb nesting birds, but it is perfectly legal to trim trees and hedges in the nesting season if you've checked and there are no nests there to be disturbed.
good god some utter kuntzf
k gets spoken/written about trees, damage and tpos rights to light etc etc etc read
common sense management of trees by the national tree safety group,
google tpo and get the actual central gov advice on tpo
nice little web site is still available called
Guidance
Tree Preservation Orders and trees in conservation areas Revision date: 06 03 2014
A number of times a year both us and people in the flats next door, and "passers by" have put onto Fix My Street photos of branches that fall - there is quite a lot of dead wood in the tree. The tree next to it (horse chestnut - was originally a row of six alternating horse chestnuts / sycamores) died four years ago looking a bit "diseased" and the council (?) did cut down.
The other fours are between gardens where they don't impact on buildings nearby. They were all listed at the same time when there was a proposal by the flats to extend. Don't know who instigated the listing, just appears as the council on the info you can see on the website (wouldn't actually surprise me if it was the councilor as they object to pretty much every planning application - I've never put any in so I have no axe to grind.
I've asked on a few forums as I know have peeps in the flats have also over they years and the response always ends up being if the council won't let us do anything and we've got everything covered in writing there isn't much more we can do. Not worth going legal and as I saw wasn't even caveat emptor, no-one complained for the first few years I lived here and trimmed the tree back so it didn't overhang my property, nor when the other side got trimmed by HIABs building the flats, just 8 years ago stern letters telling us to desist as the tree was now listed.
So just another attempt to put the Q to the masses and see if anyone knows a way about - TBH I can almost tell what will happen is this tree will get older, unkempt and diseased and then fall down / have to be cut down - which seems daft as we live in a leafy town and both us and the neighbour are happy to do the work (* or we were when the tree was smaller) to keep the tree pollarded and trimmed properly.
The other fours are between gardens where they don't impact on buildings nearby. They were all listed at the same time when there was a proposal by the flats to extend. Don't know who instigated the listing, just appears as the council on the info you can see on the website (wouldn't actually surprise me if it was the councilor as they object to pretty much every planning application - I've never put any in so I have no axe to grind.
I've asked on a few forums as I know have peeps in the flats have also over they years and the response always ends up being if the council won't let us do anything and we've got everything covered in writing there isn't much more we can do. Not worth going legal and as I saw wasn't even caveat emptor, no-one complained for the first few years I lived here and trimmed the tree back so it didn't overhang my property, nor when the other side got trimmed by HIABs building the flats, just 8 years ago stern letters telling us to desist as the tree was now listed.
So just another attempt to put the Q to the masses and see if anyone knows a way about - TBH I can almost tell what will happen is this tree will get older, unkempt and diseased and then fall down / have to be cut down - which seems daft as we live in a leafy town and both us and the neighbour are happy to do the work (* or we were when the tree was smaller) to keep the tree pollarded and trimmed properly.
- I used to cut branches until it was about 30ft, after the flats were built they apologised for damage - even though we don't know whose tree it is and got it properly pollarded, then twice we went 40:60 on tree surgeon for bi-annual trimming.
- Every year every tree surgeon that drives past calls and leaves card saying the tree needs to but cut and as soon as I tell them some of the back story they run a mile!!!
- Has anyone a 45ft squirrel suit I could use to cover a JCB high arm up with to make it look like rodent damage?
Sycamores are a bloody nuisance, we have them here and they drop thousands of seeds every year making s bloody mess and 100+ need to be pulled up each year. Once they get to 3/4 inches high they root do well it's nigh on impossible to pull them up. I have had 3/4 foot ones that have grown unnoticed in hedging or shrubs and the only way to deal with them is to poison them! Horrible non native species (brought here by the Romans I believe) your council should be shot for applying aTPO to one.
What I hear works is to cut a wide band of bark off all the way around the bottom of the tree. Apparently the nutrients etc pass up the tree just under the bark and this interrupts this. A very large sycamore near us received this treatment and was dead within 2 years and the council then came and cut it down. How patient are you?
What I hear works is to cut a wide band of bark off all the way around the bottom of the tree. Apparently the nutrients etc pass up the tree just under the bark and this interrupts this. A very large sycamore near us received this treatment and was dead within 2 years and the council then came and cut it down. How patient are you?
Apologies to OP to joining thread - tell me to create my own if you wish.
We actually liked having the trees around and keeping them manageable, part of the appeal of the area. So I wouldn't want to kill it, just maintain it, though I feel it has gone to far past care now that it hasn't been looked at for eight years plus.
And if it were killed by vandalism such as bark stripping, copper nails, drilling holes and pouring milk in whom do you think the council are going to "inquire to first". Though I must admit, part of me dreams an adrift firework rocket might be the answer on one of the quieter nights prior to bonfire night........ (I have good water pressure and the fire station is on the adjacent road as what I wouldn't want is burning tree on my house.
We actually liked having the trees around and keeping them manageable, part of the appeal of the area. So I wouldn't want to kill it, just maintain it, though I feel it has gone to far past care now that it hasn't been looked at for eight years plus.
And if it were killed by vandalism such as bark stripping, copper nails, drilling holes and pouring milk in whom do you think the council are going to "inquire to first". Though I must admit, part of me dreams an adrift firework rocket might be the answer on one of the quieter nights prior to bonfire night........ (I have good water pressure and the fire station is on the adjacent road as what I wouldn't want is burning tree on my house.
I love these kind of posts, some of the advice is laughable at best.
The owners of the trees are not obliged to prune them, some will out of good nieghbourly relations but flinging threats about probably won't help your cause. My advice would be, be nice to them, it can work wonders.
If they won't do the work then you can apply for permission to carry out a 2-3m reduction back from your property and if approved then hire a company to carry out the works, again if you're nice to the contractor then they may go slightly harder than the approval that's granted.
But then, wtf would I know about this kind of thing?
The owners of the trees are not obliged to prune them, some will out of good nieghbourly relations but flinging threats about probably won't help your cause. My advice would be, be nice to them, it can work wonders.
If they won't do the work then you can apply for permission to carry out a 2-3m reduction back from your property and if approved then hire a company to carry out the works, again if you're nice to the contractor then they may go slightly harder than the approval that's granted.
But then, wtf would I know about this kind of thing?
treehack said:
If they won't do the work then you can apply for permission to carry out a 2-3m reduction back from your property
Don't get confused between the two separate requests for advice, here: the OP's tree - so far as we've been told - is not TPO'd (so you don't need to apply for any permission from anyone: you can just cut back the branches that overhang your property).It's StanleyT's sycamore that is TPO'd and on 'unclaimed' (unregistered?) land, presumably with no known owner.
Edited by Equus on Monday 25th September 22:14
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff