Using hands free, but police say he was holding phone

[Greendubber]

hondansx said:

I think you're mistaking me for a 'dominating the staircase' kind of bloke. The point I was trying to get across is that - surely - anyone who is genuinely accused of something they did not do would stand up for themselves.

Am I wrong in thinking it would be absurd for someone to take a ticket with a smile, and appear in court for doing nothing wrong?

Well you did mention dominating the area in front of the police car earlier in the thread....

[Ken Figenus]

I got pulled by a copper saying I was on the phone at 2am. I was not. I also had a hands free kit. I think I scratched my ear and thus he had made a mistake seeing the back of my hand by my ear. Got a bit heated as I was pleading my innocence and showing him no calls on the phone since he said I could have deleted call logs via the menus...it just wasn't possible given the time that would have taken. I stood my ground and he relented. They do make mistakes...

[Autopilot]

hondansx said:

I think you're mistaking me for a 'dominating the staircase' kind of bloke. The point I was trying to get across is that - surely - anyone who is genuinely accused of something they did not do would stand up for themselves.

Am I wrong in thinking it would be absurd for someone to take a ticket with a smile, and appear in court for doing nothing wrong?

I think your response was perfectly clear. The thing about SP&L forum is that people just like to jump on literally anything and everything people say. I understood the 'whatever it took to give me the time to rationally explain my defence' as being pretty clear that you were stating that nobody in their right mind would just accept a ticket for using their phone if they hadn't been and would stand their ground until they had been heard.

[vonhosen]

hondansx said:

I think you're mistaking me for a 'dominating the staircase' kind of bloke. The point I was trying to get across is that - surely - anyone who is genuinely accused of something they did not do would stand up for themselves.

Am I wrong in thinking it would be absurd for someone to take a ticket with a smile, and appear in court for doing nothing wrong?

But the point is stand up for yourself how?

You said you won't take the ticket, but that doesn't matter, it doesn't alter the situation.
You said you'd obstruct them so they couldn't leave, well good luck with that, that isn't helping your situation either.

Nobody is saying you have to accept their version & not stand up for yourself, but your 'I protest most strongly, no I really do' at the scene, isn't an effective solution.
You've got to do it through the recognised channels. The point is what your describing isn't likely to work.

[matchmaker]

If I ever get accused of this my response would be:

1. I have Bluetooth handsfree.
2. My phone is in the inside pocket of my (zipped) fleece.
3. My specs - which I need to see my phone - are in the opposite inside pocket of my zipped fleece.

Removing the seatbelt, unzipping my fleece, getting my specs case out, getting specs out of case, putting specs on, getting phone out and finally using it might be a tad difficult whilst driving!

[elanfan]

I don't understand all the disbelief of the OPs friends story. Police are human therefore fallible too, whether just mistaken or maliciously lying who knows. The problem will be that the court are highly likely to take the officers word over Joe public.

If the defendant pull alongside the Police car to its left the officer could not have seen a handset held to to the defendants left ear unless he had supermans XRay vision.. That might be an argument in court.

10 years plus ago I passed a Police stop on a residential road whilst they were dealing with another driver. I turned around and came back the other way a couple of minutes later only to have an officer step out into the road and stop me. Got questioned as to why I'd turned around and then was asked why I didn't have my seatbelt on the first time I'd passed him. Ever since I'd got in cars as a passenger, as a learner before belt wearing was compulsory I ALWAYS wore a seatbelt as it is a lifesaver and no inconvenience whatsoever. I was shocked at his accusation, I explained he was mistaken and why and that perhaps the dark grey suit I was wearing had obscured what he thought he'd seen. I was vehement in my defence and I think he was a little taken aback. He tried to end it by saying next time I see you without a belt on I'll ticket you. I wasn't having any of it (and I'm no billy big balls) and said that wouldn't be happening as I always wear one. He just turned away. I suspect had he decided to ticket me I would have been convicted of something I had definitely not done.

[elanfan]

VonH,

Without flashing your badge or giving the secret handshake etc :lol: how would you deal with a similar false accusation? You knew without doubt you hadn't done what you'd been accused of and the officer was either mistaken or lying.

[Autopilot]

vonhosen said:

hondansx said:

I think you're mistaking me for a 'dominating the staircase' kind of bloke. The point I was trying to get across is that - surely - anyone who is genuinely accused of something they did not do would stand up for themselves.

Am I wrong in thinking it would be absurd for someone to take a ticket with a smile, and appear in court for doing nothing wrong?

But the point is stand up for yourself how?

You said you won't take the ticket, but that doesn't matter, it doesn't alter the situation.
You said you'd obstruct them so they couldn't leave, well good luck with that, that isn't helping your situation either.

Nobody is saying you have to accept their version & not stand up for yourself, but your 'I protest most strongly, no I really do' at the scene, isn't an effective solution.
You've got to do it through the recognised channels. The point is what your describing isn't likely to work.

He said in his first response that he'd demo the Bluetooth working. If somebody has a phone in a cradle (or zipped away somewhere) and showed the Policeman it working, a reasonable copper that can see he's not being reeled off a load of bullst would probably then not issue a ticket.

[vonhosen]

Autopilot said:

vonhosen said:

hondansx said:

I think you're mistaking me for a 'dominating the staircase' kind of bloke. The point I was trying to get across is that - surely - anyone who is genuinely accused of something they did not do would stand up for themselves.

Am I wrong in thinking it would be absurd for someone to take a ticket with a smile, and appear in court for doing nothing wrong?

But the point is stand up for yourself how?

You said you won't take the ticket, but that doesn't matter, it doesn't alter the situation.
You said you'd obstruct them so they couldn't leave, well good luck with that, that isn't helping your situation either.

Nobody is saying you have to accept their version & not stand up for yourself, but your 'I protest most strongly, no I really do' at the scene, isn't an effective solution.
You've got to do it through the recognised channels. The point is what your describing isn't likely to work.

He said in his first response that he'd demo the Bluetooth working. If somebody has a phone in a cradle (or zipped away somewhere) and showed the Policeman it working, a reasonable copper that can see he's not being reeled off a load of bullst would probably then not issue a ticket.

He said what he'd do if they don't listen to his plea, I'm just pointing out that that's not the way to go about it if they are intent on reporting him, it's not going to help.

[MorganP104]

Greendubber said:

hondansx said:

Refuse to take the ticket, stand in front of his car, whatever it took to give me the time to rationally explain my defence. Not that hard, really.

If this ever happens be sure to let us know how it turns out.

There is no way this would ever end badly. No sir. Only good would come of this approach. Definitely.

[vonhosen]

elanfan said:

VonH,

Without flashing your badge or giving the secret handshake etc :lol: how would you deal with a similar false accusation? You knew without doubt you hadn't done what you'd been accused of and the officer was either mistaken or lying.

Haven't got a badge or secret handshake.
How you deal with an individual situation is dependent on the individual circumstances of that situation & the individual you are dealing with. A large part of that is social skills, human awareness/reading people, then getting the most you can out of the situation to your advantage. What he was describing isn't likely to work.

[vonhosen]

Autopilot said:

hondansx said:

I think you're mistaking me for a 'dominating the staircase' kind of bloke. The point I was trying to get across is that - surely - anyone who is genuinely accused of something they did not do would stand up for themselves.

Am I wrong in thinking it would be absurd for someone to take a ticket with a smile, and appear in court for doing nothing wrong?

I think your response was perfectly clear. The thing about SP&L forum is that people just like to jump on literally anything and everything people say. I understood the 'whatever it took to give me the time to rationally explain my defence' as being pretty clear that you were stating that nobody in their right mind would just accept a ticket for using their phone if they hadn't been and would stand their ground until they had been heard.

And I said you don't have to accept the ticket, nobody has to. If you don't it defaults to summons, it's no skin of the officer's nose. If they've decided to report you & filled out a FPN they don't care that you won't take it.

Talk then of blocking their path in some belief that it will make a positive difference (where they are determined to go that path) is just a nonsense.

Of course you can stand up for yourself, you've just got to go the right way about that & that may mean deferring action at that particular moment.

Edited by vonhosen on Wednesday 18th October 13:38

[elanfan]

Von,

How about not skirting the question. Take the OPs story assume everyone's been polite you've given your version to the officer and he's just not believing you. So you get a ticket for something you know you didn't do. What would you do? A clear and direct answer would be appreciated.

[Greendubber]

elanfan said:

Von,

How about not skirting the question. Take the OPs story assume everyone's been polite you've given your version to the officer and he's just not believing you. So you get a ticket for something you know you didn't do. What would you do? A clear and direct answer would be appreciated.

Pretty sure it would be opt for a day in court, being as its the only option.

[Countdown]

Call me a cynic but what are the odds of a Policeman falsely accusing somebody of using a phone when they actually HAVE been using the phone but handsfree?

That's a pretty big coincidence....because it means that the phone logs can't be used as proof of innocence either.

[vonhosen]

elanfan said:

Von,

How about not skirting the question. Take the OPs story assume everyone's been polite you've given your version to the officer and he's just not believing you. So you get a ticket for something you know you didn't do. What would you do? A clear and direct answer would be appreciated.

Because there isn't a clear easy answer. Situations evolve & what you say/how you act affects what they say/how they act (as does vice versa).
You need to read the individual & have the social skills to manipulate the situation to your ultimate advantage. That may be knowing to shut up take the ticket, not pay it & attack it from another angle in some circumstances, it will depend. It's not likely to be attempting to prevent them leaving physically leaving when they wish to go on their way.

Not everybody has equal success in resolving difficult situations in social interactions. EQ is a better predictor of success than IQ.

[Sa Calobra]

DHE said:

He says he was using the bluetooth facility in the van, wasn't touching the phone.

He was obviously on a call so unless it's sheer coincidence. So using this they obviously saw him with the phone in one of his hands at some point. My car has Bluetooth, I don't bother with it but I can say 'it was on Bluetooth, honest'.

[Kuji]

Countdown said:

Call me a cynic but what are the odds of a Policeman falsely accusing somebody of using a phone when they actually HAVE been using the phone but handsfree?

That's a pretty big coincidence....because it means that the phone logs can't be used as proof of innocence either.

I think the same.
The phone was either connected to Bluetooth, or it wasn't.


its not exactly hard to prove your phone is connected to the BT system in the van. All you need do is press a few buttons on the vans dash and voila, you are phoning back the person who just called you.

Alternatively, you just scroll through the BT menu and show that its either or 'connected' and on the list of paired applications.

However, it would appear to be even easier to suggest no exchange of words occurred and try to convince a number of people to provide some suitable potential excuses after the fact.

[Kuji]

vonhosen said:

elanfan said:

Von,

How about not skirting the question. Take the OPs story assume everyone's been polite you've given your version to the officer and he's just not believing you. So you get a ticket for something you know you didn't do. What would you do? A clear and direct answer would be appreciated.

Because there isn't a clear easy answer. Situations evolve & what you say/how you act affects what they say/how they act (as does vice versa).
You need to read the individual & have the social skills to manipulate the situation to your ultimate advantage. That may be knowing to shut up take the ticket, not pay it & attack it from another angle in some circumstances, it will depend. It's not likely to be attempting to prevent them leaving physically leaving when they wish to go on their way.

Not everybody has equal success in resolving difficult situations in social interactions. EQ is a better predictor of success than IQ.

#

Can you assume that everyone is polite??

In Elanfan's own personal story, both he and the Policeman had an (vehement) exchange of words after he had turned around and driven back for no apparent reason (that he also hasn't fully explained the reason for).

[SantaBarbara]

elanfan said:

Von,

How about not skirting the question. Take the OPs story assume everyone's been polite you've given your version to the officer and he's just not believing you. So you get a ticket for something you know you didn't do. What would you do? A clear and direct answer would be appreciated.

Could he make a complaint that the officer had not given due weight to his comments at the time of issue of the fine?