Drink driver, leaving an accident...

Drink driver, leaving an accident...

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Discussion

ashleyman

6,962 posts

98 months

Monday 13th November 2017
quotequote all
I know of someone who phoned in a suspected drink driver and he said he offered to follow the car to help guide a police car to it. Control room said yes please so he followed it providing updates turn by turn. Police car caught up, took over he hung up and went home and heard nothing more of it.

JuniorD

8,616 posts

222 months

Monday 13th November 2017
quotequote all
Breadvan72 said:
No, you don't often hear that. Can you show me one instance of someone acting as a rescuer or otherwise aiding the law being prosecuted?
You'll probably get me on a technicality or semantics but haven't folk received points after being captured by traffic signal cameras violating red lights while moving out of the way of police cars?


caelite

4,273 posts

111 months

Monday 13th November 2017
quotequote all
Breadvan72 said:
Discretion, not digression. The two words mean very different things. Also: precedents not precedence. This is meant to be helpful.
Ugh, discretion/digression would be an auto correct disagreement. But I do now realise that I appear to have been using precedents/precedence wrong. biggrin

Gavia

7,627 posts

90 months

Monday 13th November 2017
quotequote all
caelite said:
Breadvan72 said:
Discretion, not digression. The two words mean very different things. Also: precedents not precedence. This is meant to be helpful.
Ugh, discretion/digression would be an auto correct disagreement. But I do now realise that I appear to have been using precedents/precedence wrong. biggrin
More importantly, you seem to have decided to incorrectly swap where & were, as seems to be de rigeur these days.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 13th November 2017
quotequote all
JuniorD said:
Breadvan72 said:
No, you don't often hear that. Can you show me one instance of someone acting as a rescuer or otherwise aiding the law being prosecuted?
You'll probably get me on a technicality or semantics but haven't folk received points after being captured by traffic signal cameras violating red lights while moving out of the way of police cars?

Have they?

JuniorD

8,616 posts

222 months

Monday 13th November 2017
quotequote all
Breadvan72 said:
JuniorD said:
Breadvan72 said:
No, you don't often hear that. Can you show me one instance of someone acting as a rescuer or otherwise aiding the law being prosecuted?
You'll probably get me on a technicality or semantics but haven't folk received points after being captured by traffic signal cameras violating red lights while moving out of the way of police cars?

Have they?
I asked you first

RTS95

Original Poster:

730 posts

169 months

Monday 13th November 2017
quotequote all
Just to clarify a couple of areas from my perspective.

They didn't ask any questions about my driving.
I wouldn't want to put my car in a position to risk damage.
I knew the driver of the car that got damaged was ok because it proceeded to turn around.
If I was the driver of the car, I don't think I would be in the right mindset to follow a vehicle directly after a crash.

I kept a safe distance making sure no one else was at risk bar the driver where I possibly could.

I specifically said to the call handler do you want me to follow and they stated yes.
Regular updates were provided to them, road/directions, speed, driving, other road users etc etc.
I can't recite the full conversation but there was some permission/discussion with a sergeant somewhere along the line.

I could have prevented a serious accident on a NSL dual carriageway, therefore I feel following was justified.

By no means a hero, but I did what I saw as a good deed for the day.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 13th November 2017
quotequote all
JuniorD said:
I asked you first
I have no idea. Do you?

JuniorD

8,616 posts

222 months

Monday 13th November 2017
quotequote all
Breadvan72 said:
JuniorD said:
I asked you first
I have no idea. Do you?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1204944/Driver-gets-60-fine-moving-yard-red-light-let-police-van-999-pass.html

judge



anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 13th November 2017
quotequote all
Did he pay or get the ticket set aside?

Article in OH NOES scandal sheet said:
Greater Manchester Casualty Reduction Partnership said emergency vehicle drivers were trained to manoeuvre around other cars.
Spokesman Karen Delaney said: 'If the lights are red you are putting yourself in danger if you go through them.
'You risk getting a ticket but if there is evidence that backs it up that you have manoeuvred on behalf of an emergency vehicle then we will look into it.'

GipsyHillClimber

129 posts

93 months

Monday 13th November 2017
quotequote all
Breadvan72 said:
No, you don't often hear that. Can you show me one instance of someone acting as a rescuer or otherwise aiding the law being prosecuted?
The most recent instance that sprang to my mind was the case of a would be car thief being 'detained' by member of the public, as i did think about last week with a similar scenario was http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/jordan-higham-murder-investigation-facebook-13872959

No prosecution but i think for most people, being a suspect in a murder investigation would be enough to destroy or at least hinder your career on a rather long term basis regardless of outcome. This could be deemed irrelevant to the case with the OP but hits on your request (minus the critical prosecution element)

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Monday 13th November 2017
quotequote all
JuniorD said:
My natural Daily Mail scepticism is hardly allayed by the photo "evidence" they include in the article...

He says his black Lexus was doing 12mph as he crossed the line:

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 13th November 2017
quotequote all
GipsyHillClimber said:
Breadvan72 said:
No, you don't often hear that. Can you show me one instance of someone acting as a rescuer or otherwise aiding the law being prosecuted?
The most recent instance that sprang to my mind was the case of a would be car thief being 'detained' by member of the public, as i did think about last week with a similar scenario was http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/jordan-higham-murder-investigation-facebook-13872959

No prosecution but i think for most people, being a suspect in a murder investigation would be enough to destroy or at least hinder your career on a rather long term basis regardless of outcome. This could be deemed irrelevant to the case with the OP but hits on your request (minus the critical prosecution element)
So, in other words, it doesn't hit on it at all.

When someone has died while being detained, would you rather that the police investigate, or just say "looks like a wrong 'un, nothing to see here"?


PS: My brother was once interviewed in a murder investigation. It had no impact on his career.

JuniorD

8,616 posts

222 months

Monday 13th November 2017
quotequote all
Breadvan72 said:
Did he pay or get the ticket set aside?
I have no idea.

I can see where this is going; you might be getting me on that technicality or semantics I mentioned.


anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 13th November 2017
quotequote all
Why so paranoid? i am not trying to get you. I am curious about what happened. I would assume that if the bloke sent a sensible letter in then the issuing office could look at the film and cancel the ticket.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Monday 13th November 2017
quotequote all
Breadvan72 said:
Why so paranoid? i am not trying to get you. I am curious about what happened. I would assume that if the bloke sent a sensible letter in then the issuing office could look at the film and cancel the ticket.
Given that we can assume that still is more accurate than the Wail's reportage of somebody trying to dodge a ticket, it seems a fair enough cop, tbh.

rxe

6,700 posts

102 months

Monday 13th November 2017
quotequote all
Breadvan72 said:
So, in other words, it doesn't hit on it at all.

When someone has died while being detained, would you rather that the police investigate, or just say "looks like a wrong 'un, nothing to see here"?


PS: My brother was once interviewed in a murder investigation. It had no impact on his career.
So, if the OP had lost it chasing a van doing 80 in a 40, would you underwrite the fact that a dangerous driving conviction wouldn't be applied? Or if he had lost it and killed someone, that he wouldn't be looking at a few years inside?



anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 13th November 2017
quotequote all
You can posit extreme scenarios and they would have extreme consequences. From the opening post it sounds like the OP carefully followed the van, rather than engaging in a balls out hot pursuit. Well done to the OP.

JuniorD

8,616 posts

222 months

Monday 13th November 2017
quotequote all
Breadvan72 said:
Why so paranoid? i am not trying to get you. I am curious about what happened. I would assume that if the bloke sent a sensible letter in then the issuing office could look at the film and cancel the ticket.
I was half expecting that you might contend that receiving a ticket/fine was not "prosecution" unless you paid it, or something like that hehe

Scanning around the various police advice pages (https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q699.htm , http://www.bluelightaware.org.uk/?p=239 ), the advice seems to be

"It is important to remember that in committing the offence (crossing the stop line) the onus will be on you to provide evidence that you did so to allow an emergency vehicle through, and this may be considered as mitigation".


rxe

6,700 posts

102 months

Monday 13th November 2017
quotequote all
Breadvan72 said:
You can posit extreme scenarios and they would have extreme consequences. From the opening post it sounds like the OP carefully followed the van, rather than engaging in a balls out hot pursuit. Well done to the OP.
I'm suggesting the sort of example that could very easily happen when a member of the public decides to pursue someone. In this case it all went well, bad guy apprehended etc. If it had gone badly, I have no doubt the OP would have had the book thrown at him with almost zero regard for what he was attempting to achieve.

It's a bit like the advice posted above. Rather than unequivocally saying "if you cross a red light to let an emergency vehicle through, we will not prosecute", it says "prove that you did it for this reason, and we'll think about it".