Lorry drivers who think the are the Police
Discussion
Only on PH can you find people willing to argue with someone who's job is the very subject being argued about.
So there's an actual professional telling you to merge at the cones.
I've provided numerous links to motoring professionals and associations that all say merge at the cones.
Other posters have all commented on why the merge point is at the cones.
Yet somehow, people are still trying to argue that that's not where it should be and people are just pushing in by merging at the cones?! Really?
So there's an actual professional telling you to merge at the cones.
I've provided numerous links to motoring professionals and associations that all say merge at the cones.
Other posters have all commented on why the merge point is at the cones.
Yet somehow, people are still trying to argue that that's not where it should be and people are just pushing in by merging at the cones?! Really?
Edited by Centurion07 on Thursday 23 November 16:01
Chrisgr31 said:
But I guess if your education involves insulting them that is not a great surprise.
You can only explain a finite number of times before the (deliberate) ignorance of others becomes frustrating. I have explained several times on this thread - and the myriad of other threads on this exact subject over the years - yet people are still (incorrectly) arguing that it's wrong.
If you're really interested, read this:
http://tsrgd.co.uk/pdf/tsm/tsm-chapter-08-part-01....
It's the guidance used for designing traffic management - including the big, multi-month layouts used on motorways etc. It's quite straight forward but gives a lot of information that Everyday Joe doesn't think about.
For example, D3.6 gives information on safe taper locations. It's a bit more than just "Put cones out wherever you think is OK".
ETA yes it is only guidance, but if your layourt causes an accident and you are not in compliance with Ch8, then you are likely to get a shoeing in court.
Red Devil said:
I find it thoroughly ironic that some posters talk about people 'zipping past' the queue. If people were educated in the art of zip merging there wouldn't be any empty lane for them to 'zip down'!
I always merge as near the pinch point as practicable. I seldom get any grief because I don't drive along the unoccupied lane as if my pants are on fire. It's all about observation/anticipation.
I therefore assume that you are always in the outside lane? The issue is that in the vast majority of cases true zip merging will never work in the UK. I don't know about you but my zips have an equal number of teeth on each side. The highway is not like that. Invariably the inside lane will have more traffic in it than the outside lane, and equally by definition those in the outside lane must be there because they are overtaking.I always merge as near the pinch point as practicable. I seldom get any grief because I don't drive along the unoccupied lane as if my pants are on fire. It's all about observation/anticipation.
Where traffic is light the problem doesnt arise because people slow down and generally do merge sensibly and in reality they probably merge 30, 40 or 50 metres away from the cone. The problem only arises at the point where traffic volume becomes too great for the traffic to flow through the merge point seamlessly.
It would be interesting to know if the traffic volumes in the US in each lane are more similar because they allow overtaking either side, of course more equal traffic volumes leads to zip merging working better.
Another factor that affects zip merging is a lorry, caravan etc as they will in effect be taking up the space of 2 or more cars.
Personally
Chrisgr31 said:
OpulentBob said:
There are some very clever mathematicians who provide the simulations and logarithms for working out queue behaviour. They would prove your theory wrong quite quickly.
Do you not think this is something that gets brought up a dozen times a day at any substantial length of road works, by car dwellers who think they know it all? What you are saying is nothing new, it is an argument as old as the hills and oft refuted.
The advice remains, "merge at the merge point". How dare you decide that the merge point should be changed when you are not aware of the reasons, or indeed the consequences of moving it? Moving "your" merge point to the 800yd board, for example, could quite easily push the queue half a mile back, across a junction - gridlocking it unneccessarily. It's a bit Mrs Lovejoy, but what if there are ambulances that need to get through the junction? Or maybe someone needs to get somewhere for a job interview, or some other important reason? And all because you feel that people pushing in are somehow questioning your manhood, or something equally "me me me".
Merge at the merge point. You may not understand why, but it is the best option for all involved, not just the one person in your car. Stop being so incredibly selfish.
You seem to be ignoring the fact that I have not accused anyone of jumping the queue, and not said what action I take when approaching a merge point so therefore you cannot accuse me of being incredible selfish or believing anyone is questioning my manhood or indeed anything equally me, me me.Do you not think this is something that gets brought up a dozen times a day at any substantial length of road works, by car dwellers who think they know it all? What you are saying is nothing new, it is an argument as old as the hills and oft refuted.
The advice remains, "merge at the merge point". How dare you decide that the merge point should be changed when you are not aware of the reasons, or indeed the consequences of moving it? Moving "your" merge point to the 800yd board, for example, could quite easily push the queue half a mile back, across a junction - gridlocking it unneccessarily. It's a bit Mrs Lovejoy, but what if there are ambulances that need to get through the junction? Or maybe someone needs to get somewhere for a job interview, or some other important reason? And all because you feel that people pushing in are somehow questioning your manhood, or something equally "me me me".
Merge at the merge point. You may not understand why, but it is the best option for all involved, not just the one person in your car. Stop being so incredibly selfish.
I have also not suggested moving the merge point, I have merely commented why it happens, and if lorry drivers or whatever block the lane that is closed by definition as they move forwards then the merge point will move back to where you want it.
You may not like what people actually do in real world situations but plainly you have not educated people properly as they continue to do it. But I guess if your education involves insulting them that is not a great surprise.
Chrisgr31 said:
Johnnytheboy said:
Surely where the person setting the cones up wants the merge point to be is, erm, the merge point?
"In practice" they want the traffic to merge somewhere else?
Normally when an expert gives you advice you listen, be it a doctor or maybe a financial adviser, you would do well to pay attention. But this fellow works for the highways or something similar, I mean come on have you seen the state of some of the loony junctions that these so called experts have designed, pinch of salt comes to mind.
This thread reminds me of the global warming one, anyone with a vested interest - i.e. the ones that drive right up to the cones - are going all out trying to convince the rest of us just how wonderful it is.
This thread reminds me of the global warming one, anyone with a vested interest - i.e. the ones that drive right up to the cones - are going all out trying to convince the rest of us just how wonderful it is.
mickmcpaddy said:
Normally when an expert gives you advice you listen, be it a doctor or maybe a financial adviser, you would do well to pay attention. But this fellow works for the highways or something similar, I mean come on have you seen the state of some of the loony junctions that these so called experts have designed, pinch of salt comes to mind.
This thread reminds me of the global warming one, anyone with a vested interest - i.e. the ones that drive right up to the cones - are going all out trying to convince the rest of us just how wonderful it is.
I thought I'd come to PH, but it turns out I've opened a copy of Viz magazine.This thread reminds me of the global warming one, anyone with a vested interest - i.e. the ones that drive right up to the cones - are going all out trying to convince the rest of us just how wonderful it is.
As always in these threads, I'm compelled to ask:
There is a point on the A380, at Newton Abbot in Devon, where the road becomes one lane to go over a bridge at the Penn Inn roundabout. Just how soon after I've left Carlisle should I get into (and remain in) the rightmost lane in order to avoid 'jumping the queue'?
ferrariF50lover said:
I thought I'd come to PH, but it turns out I've opened a copy of Viz magazine.
As always in these threads, I'm compelled to ask:
There is a point on the A380, at Newton Abbot in Devon, where the road becomes one lane to go over a bridge at the Penn Inn roundabout. Just how soon after I've left Carlisle should I get into (and remain in) the rightmost lane in order to avoid 'jumping the queue'?
Just after the A38 splits in two at the bottom of Haldon Hill otherwise you’ll end up in Plymouth *shudder*.As always in these threads, I'm compelled to ask:
There is a point on the A380, at Newton Abbot in Devon, where the road becomes one lane to go over a bridge at the Penn Inn roundabout. Just how soon after I've left Carlisle should I get into (and remain in) the rightmost lane in order to avoid 'jumping the queue'?
ferrariF50lover said:
I thought I'd come to PH, but it turns out I've opened a copy of Viz magazine.
As always in these threads, I'm compelled to ask:
There is a point on the A380, at Newton Abbot in Devon, where the road becomes one lane to go over a bridge at the Penn Inn roundabout. Just how soon after I've left Carlisle should I get into (and remain in) the rightmost lane in order to avoid 'jumping the queue'?
How about driving right down to the front, waiting until all the vehicles in the left lane have gone through and then following on behind, you're not adding to the length of the queue in the left lane and you're not getting in front of queuing motorists either, win win. As always in these threads, I'm compelled to ask:
There is a point on the A380, at Newton Abbot in Devon, where the road becomes one lane to go over a bridge at the Penn Inn roundabout. Just how soon after I've left Carlisle should I get into (and remain in) the rightmost lane in order to avoid 'jumping the queue'?
mickmcpaddy said:
How about driving right down to the front, waiting until all the vehicles in the left lane have gone through and then following on behind, you're not adding to the length of the queue in the left lane and you're not getting in front of queuing motorists either, win win.
jm doc said:
Mandat said:
jm doc said:
The road captains get through quicker though.
They'd get through even more quickly if they used both lanes as intended, instead of blocking other traffic from doing so.The reality is that it gets them through quicker and they know it.
If I see one I go out of my way to pretend to try and get past, it makes the queue almost fun. I would even go off-roading if I was in my Rangie, then if I do pass I give them a peace sign and mouth peace brother...they start frothing.
My mate who posts on here had an artic swerve in to his fairly new Cayman to stop him passing, it did a fair bit of damage.
Chrisgr31 said:
I therefore assume that you are always in the outside lane? The issue is that in the vast majority of cases true zip merging will never work in the UK. I don't know about you but my zips have an equal number of teeth on each side. The highway is not like that. Invariably the inside lane will have more traffic in it than the outside lane, and equally by definition those in the outside lane must be there because they are overtaking.
Where traffic is light the problem doesnt arise because people slow down and generally do merge sensibly and in reality they probably merge 30, 40 or 50 metres away from the cone. The problem only arises at the point where traffic volume becomes too great for the traffic to flow through the merge point seamlessly.
If people joined the shortest lane when they came to the back of stationary traffic then it wouldn't be a problem as both sides of the zip would have equal numbers of teeth. Pretty simple.Where traffic is light the problem doesnt arise because people slow down and generally do merge sensibly and in reality they probably merge 30, 40 or 50 metres away from the cone. The problem only arises at the point where traffic volume becomes too great for the traffic to flow through the merge point seamlessly.
you're supposed to use both lanes till the merge point any lorries that straddle lanes are complete bell ends and they should be done for driving without due care or dangerous driving! and all those that come out with that those in the empty lane are flying down and pushing in, grow up! its there to be used and what rly gets me is wh you get some idiot that then takes it upon themselves to play chicken virtually touching the car in front to not let you in!
ppl act differently when they have a metal box to protect themselves in
ppl act differently when they have a metal box to protect themselves in
ghost83 said:
you're supposed to use both lanes till the merge point any lorries that straddle lanes are complete bell ends and they should be done for driving without due care or dangerous driving! and all those that come out with that those in the empty lane are flying down and pushing in, grow up! its there to be used and what rly gets me is wh you get some idiot that then takes it upon themselves to play chicken virtually touching the car in front to not let you in!
ppl act differently when they have a metal box to protect themselves in
When all said and done the person in the closing lane has to change lanes and cross a white line, they do not have any priority to do this, the car already in the through lane has priority.ppl act differently when they have a metal box to protect themselves in
Flibble said:
If people joined the shortest lane when they came to the back of stationary traffic then it wouldn't be a problem as both sides of the zip would have equal numbers of teeth. Pretty simple.
Exactly and will invariably mean people effectively pulling out from lane 1 to lane 2mickmcpaddy said:
ghost83 said:
you're supposed to use both lanes till the merge point any lorries that straddle lanes are complete bell ends and they should be done for driving without due care or dangerous driving! and all those that come out with that those in the empty lane are flying down and pushing in, grow up! its there to be used and what rly gets me is wh you get some idiot that then takes it upon themselves to play chicken virtually touching the car in front to not let you in!
ppl act differently when they have a metal box to protect themselves in
When all said and done the person in the closing lane has to change lanes and cross a white line, they do not have any priority to do this, the car already in the through lane has priority.ppl act differently when they have a metal box to protect themselves in
Swervin_Mervin said:
mickmcpaddy said:
ghost83 said:
you're supposed to use both lanes till the merge point any lorries that straddle lanes are complete bell ends and they should be done for driving without due care or dangerous driving! and all those that come out with that those in the empty lane are flying down and pushing in, grow up! its there to be used and what rly gets me is wh you get some idiot that then takes it upon themselves to play chicken virtually touching the car in front to not let you in!
ppl act differently when they have a metal box to protect themselves in
When all said and done the person in the closing lane has to change lanes and cross a white line, they do not have any priority to do this, the car already in the through lane has priority.ppl act differently when they have a metal box to protect themselves in
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