Friend had an Accident, Insurance won’t Pay

Friend had an Accident, Insurance won’t Pay

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ZOLLAR

19,908 posts

172 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
Dog Star said:
stevensdrs said:
I believe that the policy terminates with the write off and no refunds
You believe wrong.
Well it depends, he is technically correct.

If your car is written off and the insurer deals with the claim the contract has been fulfilled and there is no car to insure however if you get a replacement vehicle fairly swiftly typically the insurer will either reinstate the insurance and allow it to continue or they may transfer the remaining premium to a new policy that you can take out with them.

It'll very per insurers internal procedures.

TwigtheWonderkid

43,246 posts

149 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
ZOLLAR said:
Dog Star said:
stevensdrs said:
I believe that the policy terminates with the write off and no refunds
You believe wrong.
Well it depends, he is technically correct.

If your car is written off and the insurer deals with the claim the contract has been fulfilled and there is no car to insure however if you get a replacement vehicle fairly swiftly typically the insurer will either reinstate the insurance and allow it to continue or they may transfer the remaining premium to a new policy that you can take out with them.

It'll very per insurers internal procedures.
very few insurers cancel upon total loss these days. Of course, if you don't replace the written off car, then you won't get a refund on the unused portion of the cover, which is fair enough really.

ZOLLAR

19,908 posts

172 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
TwigtheWonderkid said:
ZOLLAR said:
Dog Star said:
stevensdrs said:
I believe that the policy terminates with the write off and no refunds
You believe wrong.
Well it depends, he is technically correct.

If your car is written off and the insurer deals with the claim the contract has been fulfilled and there is no car to insure however if you get a replacement vehicle fairly swiftly typically the insurer will either reinstate the insurance and allow it to continue or they may transfer the remaining premium to a new policy that you can take out with them.

It'll very per insurers internal procedures.
very few insurers cancel upon total loss these days. Of course, if you don't replace the written off car, then you won't get a refund on the unused portion of the cover, which is fair enough really.
As per my bold wink
One of the UKs largest insurer does so it's information that would be beneficial to many.

Dog Star

16,079 posts

167 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
ZOLLAR said:
As per my bold wink
One of the UKs largest insurer does so it's information that would be beneficial to many.
There was a thread on this very forum about this recently - if I recall correctly if they do cancel the policy then they shouldn't be doing and are not applying rules correctly.

I can confirm from my own experience since 2014 (two motorbikes stolen in a burglary and writing a car off (one of the bikes was on a 5 day old policy, the car on a 5 week old policy)) that neither Ageas, Axa or LV cancel policies where there has been a total loss.

ZOLLAR

19,908 posts

172 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
Dog Star said:
ZOLLAR said:
As per my bold wink
One of the UKs largest insurer does so it's information that would be beneficial to many.
There was a thread on this very forum about this recently - if I recall correctly if they do cancel the policy then they shouldn't be doing and are not applying rules correctly.

I can confirm from my own experience since 2014 (two motorbikes stolen in a burglary and writing a car off (one of the bikes was on a 5 day old policy, the car on a 5 week old policy)) that neither Ageas, Axa or LV cancel policies where there has been a total loss.
Ah yes an internet thread, FOS and FCA appear to be more reliable entities in respect of what an insurer can and cannot do and they appear to have no issue with it being an acceptable process.

GreatGranny

9,097 posts

225 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
TwigtheWonderkid said:
very few insurers cancel upon total loss these days. Of course, if you don't replace the written off car, then you won't get a refund on the unused portion of the cover, which is fair enough really.
When our car was written off my IC (Tesco) kept the policy alive for 28 days so I didn't have to cancel then start another policy when I got a replacement car.

CJG98

Original Poster:

468 posts

77 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
So after going through everything with her today we are a bit further forwards. It looks like the pre accident market value of the car is actually less than the excess (£750). The car was a £650 13 year old Punto.

They called her today while I was with her and listened on speaker phone, it sounds as though they are yet to determine her car a complete write off so she will not know exactly what’s going on until next week, but looking at the pictures it will most definitely be written off (crumpled bonnet and Airbags deployed). However I think they are trying to help her out now.

Whether or not the current insurance policy keeps on rolling after this accident is unknown yet, although it seems a little unfair she paid £1.2k a week ago and the damage in total is probably worth £650 (replacement car). As for the guy she hit claiming £3000, while she was walking to the station this morning he drove past her in the same car on his way to work! She has told her insurance not to accept any claims on his behalf.

The damage to his car was so minimal, a replacement rear bumper is all it needs. Everything else is still perfectly intact, it just comes down to his “whiplash” claim now...

Will update you all soon when it’s all figured out, thanks for all your help

ZOLLAR

19,908 posts

172 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
CJG98 said:
So after going through everything with her today we are a bit further forwards. It looks like the pre accident market value of the car is actually less than the excess (£750). The car was a £650 13 year old Punto.

They called her today while I was with her and listened on speaker phone, it sounds as though they are yet to determine her car a complete write off so she will not know exactly what’s going on until next week, but looking at the pictures it will most definitely be written off (crumpled bonnet and Airbags deployed). However I think they are trying to help her out now.

Whether or not the current insurance policy keeps on rolling after this accident is unknown yet, although it seems a little unfair she paid £1.2k a week ago and the damage in total is probably worth £650 (replacement car). As for the guy she hit claiming £3000, while she was walking to the station this morning he drove past her in the same car on his way to work! She has told her insurance not to accept any claims on his behalf.

The damage to his car was so minimal, a replacement rear bumper is all it needs. Everything else is still perfectly intact, it just comes down to his “whiplash” claim now...

Will update you all soon when it’s all figured out, thanks for all your help
Insurers are very much for disputing whiplash claims these days, she can't stop the insurer from accepting a claim, they have to open a file if somebody wants to make a claim.

What they can do is investigate but this will be their decision to do so (Subrogation). Her car has suffered clear damage, his not so much but that could be due to the age of his car (if it's newer it'll have been designed to take the impact and move the energy differently) and she hit a stationary vehicle with sufficient force to push it into another car in front.

Her insurer will be hard pressed to say he's committing fraud and hasn't suffered injury if evidence is produced, he may not get the £3,000 but he'll likely get something (which is why they started at £3,000)


e30m3Mark

16,205 posts

172 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
CJG98 said:
just comes down to his “whiplash” claim now
Hopefully they won't just take his word and send a cheque.

deckster

9,630 posts

254 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
I have no skin in this game, but:

CJG98 said:
crumpled bonnet and Airbags deployed
doesn't quite mesh with

CJG98 said:
The damage to his car was so minimal, a replacement rear bumper is all it needs. Everything else is still perfectly intact
You seem to be implying that he is obviously committing fraud by claiming for whiplash, but if the impact was hard enough to set off both of her airbags and seriously damage the front of her car then it could very easily have caused injury to the other driver.

Your friend should simply put it in the hands of her insurance company and let them deal with it; that is, after all, why she pays £1200 insurance for a £650 car.

CJG98

Original Poster:

468 posts

77 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
deckster said:
You seem to be implying that he is obviously committing fraud by claiming for whiplash, but if the impact was hard enough to set off both of her airbags and seriously damage the front of her car then it could very easily have caused injury to the other driver.

Your friend should simply put it in the hands of her insurance company and let them deal with it; that is, after all, why she pays £1200 insurance for a £650 car.
He may very well have whiplash, however the fact he left the scene before an ambulance arrived and said he was completely fine, and then went straight to work after that seems a bit odd, and now only a week later after she calls to check up on him is he angry and claiming whiplash. She just wants proof from a doctor that he has what he claims.

From the gov. website:
“Whiplash claims are 50% higher than a decade ago, despite the UK having some of the safest roads in Europe and a fall in the number of accidents. This has been fuelled by a predatory claims industry that encourages minor, exaggerated and fraudulent claims, driving up the costs of insurance premiums for ordinary motorists.”

She just wants to be certain.

ZOLLAR

19,908 posts

172 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
CJG98 said:
deckster said:
You seem to be implying that he is obviously committing fraud by claiming for whiplash, but if the impact was hard enough to set off both of her airbags and seriously damage the front of her car then it could very easily have caused injury to the other driver.

Your friend should simply put it in the hands of her insurance company and let them deal with it; that is, after all, why she pays £1200 insurance for a £650 car.
He may very well have whiplash, however the fact he left the scene before an ambulance arrived and said he was completely fine, and then went straight to work after that seems a bit odd, and now only a week later after she calls to check up on him is he angry and claiming whiplash. She just wants proof from a doctor that he has what he claims.

From the gov. website:
“Whiplash claims are 50% higher than a decade ago, despite the UK having some of the safest roads in Europe and a fall in the number of accidents. This has been fuelled by a predatory claims industry that encourages minor, exaggerated and fraudulent claims, driving up the costs of insurance premiums for ordinary motorists.”

She just wants to be certain.
Whiplash isn't like a broken leg, it can take a short period of time for it to set in, having experienced whiplash myself (ironically in similar circumstances to which your friend is involved) I can attest to that.

My area of work within insurance is Fraud, whilst it's not concerning whiplash, crash for cash I do work closely with those who do and it is remarkable how many cases where someone is at fault for an incident and all of a sudden the other party are fraudsters and should get nothing, sometimes they have to accept their own actions have caused the situation and whether you like it or not the third party are entitled to claim for compensation if injury or loss has occurred.

The insurer will have dealt with many thousands of these cases, they will carry out the relevant checks and then make a decision on how to proceed, unfortunately your friend has very little say in what that decision will be.

Regarding the Gov website, it is obviously true that whiplash cases have increased drastically and also that a percentage may well be false however the increase is due to a number of variables, it's now easier to claim, people are more aware of their rights etc etc

bigandclever

13,750 posts

237 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
CJG98 said:
From the gov. website:
“Whiplash claims are 50% higher than a decade ago, despite the UK having some of the safest roads in Europe and a fall in the number of accidents. This has been fuelled by a predatory claims industry that encourages minor, exaggerated and fraudulent claims, driving up the costs of insurance premiums for ordinary motorists.”.
The good news (for us, in general), if I'm reading it right, that the reforms that will come into operation in October 2018 will limit such 'whiplash' claims to £225.

https://www.legalfutures.co.uk/latest-news/pi-refo...

JZZ30

1,070 posts

114 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
CJG98 said:
So after going through everything with her today we are a bit further forwards. It looks like the pre accident market value of the car is actually less than the excess (£750). The car was a £650 13 year old Punto.
Next mis-selling scandal!

PorkInsider

5,877 posts

140 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
CJG98 said:
He may very well have whiplash, however the fact he left the scene before an ambulance arrived and said he was completely fine, and then went straight to work after that seems a bit odd, and now only a week later after she calls to check up on him is he angry and claiming whiplash. She just wants proof from a doctor that he has what he claims.

From the gov. website:
“Whiplash claims are 50% higher than a decade ago, despite the UK having some of the safest roads in Europe and a fall in the number of accidents. This has been fuelled by a predatory claims industry that encourages minor, exaggerated and fraudulent claims, driving up the costs of insurance premiums for ordinary motorists.”

She just wants to be certain.
She doesn’t need proof of him being injured or ‘to be certain’.

The insurance company will deal with it as they see fit. Whether she thinks he’s genuinely injured or not doesn’t matter.

What is she expecting to happen if she tells the insurer she doesn’t believe him?

CJG98

Original Poster:

468 posts

77 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
PorkInsider said:
She doesn’t need proof of him being injured or ‘to be certain’.

The insurance company will deal with it as they see fit. Whether she thinks he’s genuinely injured or not doesn’t matter.

What is she expecting to happen if she tells the insurer she doesn’t believe him?
I agree with you, she’s just a bit worried. (She is all very new to this stuff).

I have told her to leave it with the insurance company.

_dobbo_

14,319 posts

247 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
I'm fascinated by the idea that days after an accident someone can know that their whiplash injury is worth £3,000

It took months of medical examinations and visits for my wife's whiplash claim to be settled. 10 years on she still suffers from neck pain on occasions and has limited movement in her neck. The idea that a week after the accident someone can say "that hurts to the tune of £3k" is nuts to me.

If genuinely injured you wait to see the extent of your injury. A week later? No chance.


anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
JZZ30 said:
Next mis-selling scandal!
It's possible that selling it this way was cheaper than selling third party only cover.

It does seem ridiculous though.

langtounlad

780 posts

170 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
Whiplash is a funny thing. I was rear ended whilst in a taxi in Hamburg, just outside the airport but felt fine so dashed on foot to catch my plane.
I then drove from Heathrow to Milton Keynes and attended a dinner dance that same evening all without any pain or stiffness.
Next morning I couldn't get my head off the pillow as the whiplash had set in whilst I was asleep.
I took a while for the stiffness to completely disappear but I thought nothing of it at the time (~30 yrs ago) and certainly didn't have any thoughts of legal redress.

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
_dobbo_ said:
I'm fascinated by the idea that days after an accident someone can know that their whiplash injury is worth £3,000

It took months of medical examinations and visits for my wife's whiplash claim to be settled. 10 years on she still suffers from neck pain on occasions and has limited movement in her neck. The idea that a week after the accident someone can say "that hurts to the tune of £3k" is nuts to me.

If genuinely injured you wait to see the extent of your injury. A week later? No chance.
The insurer will have a reserving protocol so will put an amount against a claim on day one and then change it as the claim develops.

Most whiplash is a load of old tut but the only injury I have ever had in a car was at about 5 mph in a car park reversing prang I knackered my thumb somehow, it was agony for a couple of weeks and it still clicks now.