Is there any point to concurrent sentencing?
Discussion
Algarve said:
A lot of people seem to want to throw away the key on people for serious offending; nobody seems to want to consider the consequences of that. The trade off is dead cops and collateral damage... do you want to pay that price?
I could compromise somewhere closer to sequential sentences for that group. Probably not as far as letting them go to reduce danger to them in e.g. pursuits.How are you measuring staying clean? For me if they've been released and stayed off the drugs for 12 months I'd consider that a success.
A good few years ago one of the things I managed was an Integrated Offender Management team that consisted of police, probation, housing, social workers etc.
For certain crimes (burglary, theft from cars, prolific shoplifting) very few people were responsible for 90% odd of offending.
Lots of short length sentences, ad infinitum, often just made them worse off when they came out (imagine- benefits stopped, lost accommodation, no access to doctors/dentists etc), so the cycle of offending- prison- offending just went on and on.
The team would try and get people stable: off drugs, in accommodation, access to basics (benefits, doctor, driving licence, even things like gym memberships) with some focus on EET (employment, education or training) to give them some life skills. They visited them in prison and got stuff in place for their release. It is quite intensive to run and can’t be done with loads of offenders, but works out cheaper in the long run to yo-yo sentencing.
It’s proven to be remarkably successful. I would say whilst I had some involvement in it (2yrs or so) around 40% stopped offending full stop, including being drug free (albeit some took more than one “go” round the cycle to reform.)
It eventually started working with gun crime offenders and had a similar success rate. Shows it can be done, but expensive and time consuming to do so.
A good few years ago one of the things I managed was an Integrated Offender Management team that consisted of police, probation, housing, social workers etc.
For certain crimes (burglary, theft from cars, prolific shoplifting) very few people were responsible for 90% odd of offending.
Lots of short length sentences, ad infinitum, often just made them worse off when they came out (imagine- benefits stopped, lost accommodation, no access to doctors/dentists etc), so the cycle of offending- prison- offending just went on and on.
The team would try and get people stable: off drugs, in accommodation, access to basics (benefits, doctor, driving licence, even things like gym memberships) with some focus on EET (employment, education or training) to give them some life skills. They visited them in prison and got stuff in place for their release. It is quite intensive to run and can’t be done with loads of offenders, but works out cheaper in the long run to yo-yo sentencing.
It’s proven to be remarkably successful. I would say whilst I had some involvement in it (2yrs or so) around 40% stopped offending full stop, including being drug free (albeit some took more than one “go” round the cycle to reform.)
It eventually started working with gun crime offenders and had a similar success rate. Shows it can be done, but expensive and time consuming to do so.
Edited by Gmlgml on Sunday 31st December 19:19
k me, I thought you were just a bit soft on the prison sentencing, seem like you're a full blown corbynista social justice warrior.Allsmokeandmirrors said:
What Pap! Just what is so great about your London multicultural paradigm?
Four terror attacks in one year by the enriched population of the place isnt what I'd term a success, unless of course youre counting casualties.
But this is all a thread drift from the original subject, dont you think?
terror is striking in many places right now. including London. Four terror attacks in one year by the enriched population of the place isnt what I'd term a success, unless of course youre counting casualties.
But this is all a thread drift from the original subject, dont you think?
London subsidises the rest of the country. Why that is might be another discussion, but if you live in the sticks enjoy the handout.
Algarve said:
If you're going to give me an American style sentence then I've got absolutely nothing to lose. I'll take a hostage, I'll carjack someone. I'll shoot anyone trying to put cuffs on me. Whereas before I wouldn't even have been carrying a gun in the first place.
Because there have never been armed robberies or cops injured or killed in the line of duty in the UK due to the light sentences given...Mr2Mike said:
Algarve said:
If you're going to give me an American style sentence then I've got absolutely nothing to lose. I'll take a hostage, I'll carjack someone. I'll shoot anyone trying to put cuffs on me. Whereas before I wouldn't even have been carrying a gun in the first place.
Because there have never been armed robberies or cops injured or killed in the line of duty in the UK due to the light sentences given...I'm saying if you're going to give people 100 year sentences for robbing a bank or importing drugs then the fallout of that is going to be nobody goes down quietly or without a fight.
Look at the shootouts with police in America, and the car chases and so on. They'll be coming to streets near you if you want to throw away the key on someone.
Algarve said:
They are very few and far between.
I'm saying if you're going to give people 100 year sentences for robbing a bank or importing drugs then the fallout of that is going to be nobody goes down quietly or without a fight.
Look at the shootouts with police in America, and the car chases and so on. They'll be coming to streets near you if you want to throw away the key on someone.
How many crimes escalate in Saudi Arabia so they don't get their head chopped off? Pretty crime free isn't it?I'm saying if you're going to give people 100 year sentences for robbing a bank or importing drugs then the fallout of that is going to be nobody goes down quietly or without a fight.
Look at the shootouts with police in America, and the car chases and so on. They'll be coming to streets near you if you want to throw away the key on someone.
Saudi Arabia being crime free compared to the UK is far beyond comparing apples and oranges; you’re in danger of escaping the fruit bowl...
It’s also free of:
Free speech
Civil rights
Representative government
Freedom of religion
Any equality of opportunity
And a whole host of other things that we wouldn’t accept in this country. All of them combined add up to a different crime rate to ours, not just the harsh sentencing.
Their justice system is one of the most criticised in the world, so I’m not sure importing any of it would actually do us any favours!
It’s also free of:
Free speech
Civil rights
Representative government
Freedom of religion
Any equality of opportunity
And a whole host of other things that we wouldn’t accept in this country. All of them combined add up to a different crime rate to ours, not just the harsh sentencing.
Their justice system is one of the most criticised in the world, so I’m not sure importing any of it would actually do us any favours!
Possibly relevant.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-425712...
He wasn't tried for many of the offences of which he is suspected - can he be tried for them now?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-425712...
He wasn't tried for many of the offences of which he is suspected - can he be tried for them now?
the police like concurrent sentencing as it helps clear up crime rates.............they offer the crimminals the chance to offer up TIC's - taken into consideration, basically admitting to all the crimes theyve done aslong as it doesnt effect the sentance theyre going to be serving
its not uncommon for police to pick up cons from jail, drive them round as they point out houses they robbed then get them mc'ds and back to the nick. a dozen crimes sorted for a big mac, the kid gets another 12mnths concurrent.
the input in this thread from the 2 lads who served time is pretty accurate, although a little out of sate. its now 10 times worse. and getting worse still - spice and lose of staff is killing the system.
its not until you see inside the system that you see how broken it is.
its not uncommon for police to pick up cons from jail, drive them round as they point out houses they robbed then get them mc'ds and back to the nick. a dozen crimes sorted for a big mac, the kid gets another 12mnths concurrent.
the input in this thread from the 2 lads who served time is pretty accurate, although a little out of sate. its now 10 times worse. and getting worse still - spice and lose of staff is killing the system.
its not until you see inside the system that you see how broken it is.
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