Is this Private road a public Highway?

[cossy400]

Unless ive missed it in the 3 pages (yes yes I know baby pages)


No ones asked what car the OP had his flat tyre/wheel bearing issue with.

Out of interest whats the fine for a red route?

Also I assume if they ve got to the stage of trying to secure your car then this has been going on for a while.

[deadpixel]

essayer said:

I suspect ‘enforcing a county/high court judgement’ counts as reasonable authority under the clamping laws

Seriously, you won’t beat the system. Why won’t you pay the fine/fees, then appeal it using whatever means ?

They are not High Court Enforcement, and there is no judgement or warrant. They are private enforcement agents.

[The Rookie]

Pica-Pica said:

As I understand it, the quid-pro-quo for not allowing clamping on private car parks, was the allowance of passing registered keepers name to reasonable requesters (e.g. parking firms).

And, yes, it is irritating when we play cat and mouse trying to guess OP’s real question.

Close, but no, the details of the RK were already being passed, the trade off for outlawing private clamping was making the registered keeper liable for private parking charges incurred by a driver if the requirements of PoFA schedule 4 were met.

[grumpy52]

Many years ago the private road at the side of our property which gave access to ours and a neighbouring properties garage and a building company's offices and yard had to be closed for 1 day each year .
This was done via a padlocked chain on Christmas day each year .

[essayer]

deadpixel said:

They are not High Court Enforcement, and there is no judgement or warrant. They are private enforcement agents.

They will be bailiffs enforcing a county court warrant of control

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/congestion-charge...

[paintman]

He's already been told this but it doesn't fit with what he wants to hear.

[Marcellus]

Everyone knows College Gardens (aka the Tollgate) is a private road, that's why there's a toll at the bottom of it and signs all over the place.

Owned and operated by Dulwich Estates who own most (if not all) of the Land from Crystal Palace to Red Post Hill in the North, Croxted road in the West to Lordship lane in the East.

They're always been very aggressive over enforcing no parking on that road, even fining residents who park there without the right permit, who lost when they appealed!!

I didn't know they'd made it a red route but for decades it's been no parking as they don't want commuters parking there and using Sydenham Hill station to get in to London so not surprised if they could they have as it only goes to strengthen their enforcement of no parking.

[anonymous-user]

You may be misreading. The OP's red route bust happened elsewhere, but he lives in Dulwich Village and is worried about having his car bagged because he hasn't paid a red route fine.

[Marcellus]

Breadvan72 said:

You may be misreading. The OP's red route bust happened elsewhere, but he lives in Dulwich Village and is worried about having his car bagged because he hasn't paid a red route fine.

So all of this was completely irrelevant as he got the red route fine elsewhere?

deadpixel said:

Hi there,

I did a bit of searching for topics, but I couldn't find information to conclusively answer my specific question, so I thought I would post on here.

I live on a private road in London (postcode for road is SE21 7HW) and I am trying to determine if it would be classified as a 'public highway' under the Highways Act 1980 (along with any other legislation or case law that might help with this matter) My understanding is that the definition is ambiguous at best as is often the case with definitions in law.

There are several clues which make me believe it is a private road with no right of way and NOT a public highway.

- You must pay a toll to use the road during the day time via a toll gate in the middle of the road, at night the toll gate is unmanned an free passage is granted. this has been in place for several hundred years.

- residents of the road are granted free passage.

- All along the road there are signs saying private road, private property, etc.

- Parking contraventions are enforce by a private parking enforcement company, there is signage up the road every 50m or so.

- it has been removed from google maps street view, you could only do this if it was private property.

I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the matter.

Thanks in advance!

Edited by deadpixel on Saturday 13th January 14:26

[Gavia]

Marcellus said:

Breadvan72 said:

You may be misreading. The OP's red route bust happened elsewhere, but he lives in Dulwich Village and is worried about having his car bagged because he hasn't paid a red route fine.

So all of this was completely irrelevant as he got the red route fine elsewhere?

deadpixel said:

Hi there,

I did a bit of searching for topics, but I couldn't find information to conclusively answer my specific question, so I thought I would post on here.

I live on a private road in London (postcode for road is SE21 7HW) and I am trying to determine if it would be classified as a 'public highway' under the Highways Act 1980 (along with any other legislation or case law that might help with this matter) My understanding is that the definition is ambiguous at best as is often the case with definitions in law.

There are several clues which make me believe it is a private road with no right of way and NOT a public highway.

- You must pay a toll to use the road during the day time via a toll gate in the middle of the road, at night the toll gate is unmanned an free passage is granted. this has been in place for several hundred years.

- residents of the road are granted free passage.

- All along the road there are signs saying private road, private property, etc.

- Parking contraventions are enforce by a private parking enforcement company, there is signage up the road every 50m or so.

- it has been removed from google maps street view, you could only do this if it was private property.

I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the matter.

Thanks in advance!

Edited by deadpixel on Saturday 13th January 14:26

In a nutshell, yes.

The OP hasn’t paid a red route fine from elsewhere and is now worried that his car will be taken by the enforcement officers. He’s trying to claim that the road he lives on is private and therefore they’re not allowed onto it, or some or other bks.

[deadpixel]

Marcellus said:

Breadvan72 said:

You may be misreading. The OP's red route bust happened elsewhere, but he lives in Dulwich Village and is worried about having his car bagged because he hasn't paid a red route fine.

So all of this was completely irrelevant as he got the red route fine elsewhere?

deadpixel said:

Hi there,

I did a bit of searching for topics, but I couldn't find information to conclusively answer my specific question, so I thought I would post on here.

I live on a private road in London (postcode for road is SE21 7HW) and I am trying to determine if it would be classified as a 'public highway' under the Highways Act 1980 (along with any other legislation or case law that might help with this matter) My understanding is that the definition is ambiguous at best as is often the case with definitions in law.

There are several clues which make me believe it is a private road with no right of way and NOT a public highway.

- You must pay a toll to use the road during the day time via a toll gate in the middle of the road, at night the toll gate is unmanned an free passage is granted. this has been in place for several hundred years.

- residents of the road are granted free passage.

- All along the road there are signs saying private road, private property, etc.

- Parking contraventions are enforce by a private parking enforcement company, there is signage up the road every 50m or so.

- it has been removed from google maps street view, you could only do this if it was private property.

I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the matter.

Thanks in advance!

Edited by deadpixel on Saturday 13th January 14:26

I deliberately kept my OP simple as I did not want to distract posters with information that bore no relevance to the outcome my question, and indeed waste peoples time second guessing and misleading each other. It is a shame that so many people like to use this forum to judge and disseminate poorly informed opinions, with little basis on fact. I greatly appreciate the time and effort that some posters go to in providing verifiable information along with sources, however the sentiment of many posters leaves allot to be desired.

[InitialDave]

Am I missing something, or is there not a rather big hole in the story between "letter saying spotted stopped in a red route" and "men sniffing around to seize items for debt"?

OP, surely the best way to deal with this as it stands now is to pay off whatever the amount you owe is, then wrangle at your leisure with whether you should have had the fine in the first place?

If you try and have a war of attrition with debt collectors, it's probably not going to go well.

[Marcellus]

deadpixel said:

I deliberately kept my OP simple as I did not want to distract posters with information that bore no relevance to the outcome my question, and indeed waste peoples time second guessing and misleading each other. It is a shame that so many people like to use this forum to judge and disseminate poorly informed opinions, with little basis on fact. I greatly appreciate the time and effort that some posters go to in providing verifiable information along with sources, however the sentiment of many posters leaves allot to be desired.

If you are trying to appeal a fine imposed on you by Dulwich Estates for parking (or being broken down) on College Gardens (aka The Tollgate) without the correct permit then I strongly suspect no matter how you "argue" you will not succeed, over the past 30 odd years I know of several people who have tried (Barristers included) who were residents of the road and were aggrieved at the fine but in the end accepted it and paid up.

[Red 4]

The op picked off the postie with a sniper's rifle so he could deny all knowledge.

It's all part of the grand plan.

[deadpixel]

Gavia said:

In a nutshell, yes.

The OP hasn’t paid a red route fine from elsewhere and is now worried that his car will be taken by the enforcement officers. He’s trying to claim that the road he lives on is private and therefore they’re not allowed onto it, or some or other bks.

Not Strictly true, there is no dispute that the road is private, what I wish to establish is if the road would be considered a "Highway" with respect to The Highways Act 1980. This significance bears relevance as if it is not classed as a "Highway" the Enforcement Agents would not be able to seize a vehicle that is on private property as defined in Paragraph 14(6) of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007. They would be committing an offence under section 54 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. An important distinction I would say.

I have now instructed a barrister to investigate these matters, so I will keep you posted.

[Red 4]

deadpixel said:

I have now instructed a barrister to investigate these matters, so I will keep you posted.

How much do the enforcement agents want from you ?

[Marcellus]

deadpixel said:

I have now instructed a barrister to investigate these matters, so I will keep you posted.

I thought you could only instruct a solicitor and they in turn instructed a barrister should it go to court, or am I wrong?

[Red Devil]

Get with the programme. - https://www.barcouncil.org.uk/using-a-barrister/pu...

[Marcellus]

Red Devil said:

Get with the programme. - https://www.barcouncil.org.uk/using-a-barrister/pu...

Live and learn.....

[esxste]

OP, I have to ask... have you stepped back and considered whether its actually worth the cost and hassle of fighting this on what seems to be a point of principle?

It seems like a project for someone with too much money and too much time.