Ex-employee kept equipment
Discussion
Ok AB but when you got that letter you should have written back taking his letter as termination of his employment contract to cover you.
Has he been paid his final wages? Do you pay him his contract notice?
I would write to him confirming receipt of his letter and confirming you terminated his employment on X date.
Then state that means all assets must be returned and you believe he has issued XX pc system and peripherals need to be returned to your office within 7 days from the date of this letter. Or the cost of the system and any loss of data and damage to your business will be recovered from him.
To sweeten the deal I suggest you offer someone to attend his property within the 7 days to collect the system at a time of his choosing.
Seems the best approach to me.
Has he been paid his final wages? Do you pay him his contract notice?
I would write to him confirming receipt of his letter and confirming you terminated his employment on X date.
Then state that means all assets must be returned and you believe he has issued XX pc system and peripherals need to be returned to your office within 7 days from the date of this letter. Or the cost of the system and any loss of data and damage to your business will be recovered from him.
To sweeten the deal I suggest you offer someone to attend his property within the 7 days to collect the system at a time of his choosing.
Seems the best approach to me.
surveyor_101 said:
If the employee didn't sign anything when getting the kit and there are no records (I suspect) then how does OP go about proving he had the IT kit in the first place. Don't issue an employee anything without them signing to confirm what it is they have been issued!
How do you prove you carried out a survey?surveyor_101 said:
Ok AB but when you got that letter you should have written back taking his letter as termination of his employment contract to cover you.
Has he been paid his final wages? Do you pay him his contract notice?
I would write to him confirming receipt of his letter and confirming you terminated his employment on X date.
Then state that means all assets must be returned and you believe he has issued XX pc system and peripherals need to be returned to your office within 7 days from the date of this letter. Or the cost of the system and any loss of data and damage to your business will be recovered from him.
To sweeten the deal I suggest you offer someone to attend his property within the 7 days to collect the system at a time of his choosing.
Seems the best approach to me.
I'm not claiming to be bang up to date with the latest UK employment law, but why would you do that? Wouldn't you rather accept it as his notice of termination to the company, and inform him that he is required to work normally during his notice period?Has he been paid his final wages? Do you pay him his contract notice?
I would write to him confirming receipt of his letter and confirming you terminated his employment on X date.
Then state that means all assets must be returned and you believe he has issued XX pc system and peripherals need to be returned to your office within 7 days from the date of this letter. Or the cost of the system and any loss of data and damage to your business will be recovered from him.
To sweeten the deal I suggest you offer someone to attend his property within the 7 days to collect the system at a time of his choosing.
Seems the best approach to me.
hutchst said:
I'm not claiming to be bang up to date with the latest UK employment law, but why would you do that? Wouldn't you rather accept it as his notice of termination to the company, and inform him that he is required to work normally during his notice period?
Only that if he has stated he is not coming back, getting any meaningful work out of them would seem impossible, plus why continue to pay someone who apparently hasn't done much work in the last five months. You could if you chose try to pursue the employee for not working their notice period, provided you could show a loss to the business. However that is a very risky/expensive course.
I would guess the OP has a number of legal angles they could pursue. (Potential misrepresentation of an unspent fraud conviction might be one) As they are a finance manager, did they cite professional qualifications that actually are likely to have been revoked given the fraud conviction, failure to work notice period, theft of property etc etc.
Given all that - just asking for the computer back seems quite reasonable.
Forget all the criminal past stuff, you have two issues to deal with and the rest is noise.
His walk out triggering end of his employment, as part of that you want the return of all equipment and data and the destruction of any copies of the data. Simple letter stating the walk out is presumption of resignation and therefore all equipment needs to be returned promptly.
I've often had laptops with jobs and more importantly software source code. When I leave I always get a standard form letter saying equipment, data and source must be returned. Copies of data and source code must be destroyed.
They sometimes say something about outstanding payments being held until the equipment received, but I know these have extremely poor legal standing with statutory payments.
His walk out triggering end of his employment, as part of that you want the return of all equipment and data and the destruction of any copies of the data. Simple letter stating the walk out is presumption of resignation and therefore all equipment needs to be returned promptly.
I've often had laptops with jobs and more importantly software source code. When I leave I always get a standard form letter saying equipment, data and source must be returned. Copies of data and source code must be destroyed.
They sometimes say something about outstanding payments being held until the equipment received, but I know these have extremely poor legal standing with statutory payments.
HantsRat said:
It could be he doesn't know he still has the equipment. Could have even moved address.
I would send him a letter asking for the equipment back within 14 days before you invoice for cost. You would struggle with a theft charge.
No you wouldn't. Upon arrest and interview he'd have to prove he didn't intend to permanently deprive a business of it's property.I would send him a letter asking for the equipment back within 14 days before you invoice for cost. You would struggle with a theft charge.
If the business could reasonably show they had sent letter, emails, left a note and voicemails. Then he's both aware and avoiding the opportunity to return.
He'd have no reasonable defence. 'i didn't intend to keep, I didn't realise that I still had it'.
OP ramp up and explain it's theft to him.
hutchst said:
I'm not claiming to be bang up to date with the latest UK employment law, but why would you do that? Wouldn't you rather accept it as his notice of termination to the company, and inform him that he is required to work normally during his notice period?
You need something in writing confirming that their employment has come to an end on X date that's why!It sounds like the OP doesn't have much of a clue and if this guy is clever he could be difficult. OP has not stated and ignored questions around pay and any notice pay, so I assume he just stopped paying the guy the day he left. Depending on the wording of the letter as I understand it the employee may still be on a contract.
You have to be very careful in this day an age on paperwork for employment. Even if someone resigned a letter confirming receipt and date employment ceases is a basic requirement.
Suggest the OP gets a HR company to look at their business.
surveyor_101 said:
4x4Tyke said:
How do you prove you carried out a survey?
I have paperwork unlike the OPThe OP will have evidence as well, a statement the equipment was provided, invoice to back that up.
We don't know the detail or extend of that, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Paperwork is wise but not essential, it is used by large business for practice purposes not legal ones. The OP is a small business and this was recent, a statement is fine as is testimony if necessary.
4x4Tyke said:
That is evidence, not proof.
The OP will have evidence as well, a statement the equipment was provided, invoice to back that up.
We don't know the detail or extend of that, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Paperwork is wise but not essential, it is used by large business for practice purposes not legal ones. The OP is a small business and this was recent, a statement is fine as is testimony if necessary.
work for SME and they used it!The OP will have evidence as well, a statement the equipment was provided, invoice to back that up.
We don't know the detail or extend of that, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Paperwork is wise but not essential, it is used by large business for practice purposes not legal ones. The OP is a small business and this was recent, a statement is fine as is testimony if necessary.
To answer the question around pay, he put his keys on the desk almost immediately after his monthly pay had hit his account and made it clear he didn't want to hear from us again. He knew what he was doing, he knew he'd been found out.
I don't particularly want to spend anything chasing this, I just want the computer back due to the data on it and so I don't have to buy another one.
We're a small business but growing quite quickly, turned over in first 3 months of this year year what we did last year (£500k) and outsourcing HR is something we are and have been looking at so thanks for all the advice. https://www.citation.co.uk/ are looking favourite but happy to hear from any PHers who do similar.
I don't particularly want to spend anything chasing this, I just want the computer back due to the data on it and so I don't have to buy another one.
We're a small business but growing quite quickly, turned over in first 3 months of this year year what we did last year (£500k) and outsourcing HR is something we are and have been looking at so thanks for all the advice. https://www.citation.co.uk/ are looking favourite but happy to hear from any PHers who do similar.
art200380 said:
I work for a SME with circa 200 employees and we use Citation for our HR needs.
They always advise us to write to an employee who has walked out confirming termination of their employment and giving them a 7 day "cooling off" period.
Yeh last firm I was Commercial Manager for did 23m a year and used an external HR company that indemnified them if you pay their fees and follow their advice. They would advise you send a letter confirming they have terminated their employment and ideally resign.They always advise us to write to an employee who has walked out confirming termination of their employment and giving them a 7 day "cooling off" period.
AB said:
Well it's not too late to do that I guess, and confirm we will require the computer back.
Then if it doesn't happen, which I really doubt it will, I'll act on other advice above.
Thanks.
As said send a later following you deciding to leave blah blah and terminate your employment, we require you return XX computer system and any other company property issued to you during your employment in 7 days from the date of this letter.Then if it doesn't happen, which I really doubt it will, I'll act on other advice above.
Thanks.
In order to assist you, we are happy to collect this equipment within the 7 Days at a time of your choosing.
Until you have given him that you can't do anything else!
AB said:
Done, listed full spec of machine and put "company data" in bold.
If we've not managed to get it back a week from today then we'll try something else.
If he doesn't reply to that I would send him an invoice for the computer, programmes and data and they start pursuing him for it.If we've not managed to get it back a week from today then we'll try something else.
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