Bit of fun, so is this legal?

Bit of fun, so is this legal?

Author
Discussion

Sk00p

Original Poster:

3,961 posts

226 months

Tuesday 23rd January 2018
quotequote all
Posted recently on Twitter by Hants Road policing, driver stopped for texting in lane 3 during rush hour.




Posting pics on twitter while stationary with the engine running.. is that allowed?

HantsRat

2,369 posts

107 months

Tuesday 23rd January 2018
quotequote all
Yes they're not driving. It's a bit different to being on your phone at a red light waiting to move off. They're parked up on hard shoulder, hand brake on and not going anywhere so not driving.

Atomic12C

5,180 posts

216 months

Tuesday 23rd January 2018
quotequote all
HantsRat said:
Yes they're not driving. It's a bit different to being on your phone at a red light waiting to move off. They're parked up on hard shoulder, hand brake on and not going anywhere so not driving.
It is a bit different, but its still 'driving', and therefore still illegal to use a hand held device.

To be legal he would have had to turn off the engine and get out of the vehicle before using the hand held device.
Engine must be off as that is also illegal to leave a vehicle on the highway with engine running.


If however, that image is from a head mounted camera, or a fixed mounted camera, then its a non-issue.


(I'm sure I'll be corrected if that is wrong).

Sk00p

Original Poster:

3,961 posts

226 months

Tuesday 23rd January 2018
quotequote all
Atomic12C said:
HantsRat said:
Yes they're not driving. It's a bit different to being on your phone at a red light waiting to move off. They're parked up on hard shoulder, hand brake on and not going anywhere so not driving.
It is a bit different, but its still 'driving', and therefore still illegal to use a hand held device.

To be legal he would have had to turn off the engine and get out of the vehicle before using the hand held device.
Engine must be off as that is also illegal to leave a vehicle on the highway with engine running.


If however, that image is from a head mounted camera, or a fixed mounted camera, then its a non-issue.


(I'm sure I'll be corrected if that is wrong).
That was my understanding of the law on it too, despite what common sense might suggest.

In here somewhere https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q955.htm although there maybe better sources of information


Jonno02

2,246 posts

108 months

Tuesday 23rd January 2018
quotequote all
I was always under the impression that if the keys are in the ignition/engine on, then you're counted as "driving" the vehicle. I'm pretty much always wrong on this st though.

Byker28i

58,831 posts

216 months

Tuesday 23rd January 2018
quotequote all
Jonno02 said:
I was always under the impression that if the keys are in the ignition/engine on, then you're counted as "driving" the vehicle. I'm pretty much always wrong on this st though.
Much the same for drunk driving - in charge of the vehicle?

HantsRat

2,369 posts

107 months

Tuesday 23rd January 2018
quotequote all
Whether someone is driving in terms of the law is a matter for a court to decide. Either way the officer is not going to ticket himself is he?

Sk00p

Original Poster:

3,961 posts

226 months

Tuesday 23rd January 2018
quotequote all
HantsRat said:
Whether someone is driving in terms of the law is a matter for a court to decide. Either way the officer is not going to ticket himself is he?
I agree and it is common sense, guess it just appealed to my sense of humour that the officer was highlighting catching someone using a mobile by technically, as my understanding goes, breaking the rules on hand held mobile use him/herself.

[ Although it could be someone leaning over from the back]

Good MPG though biggrin



anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 23rd January 2018
quotequote all
Byker28i said:
Jonno02 said:
I was always under the impression that if the keys are in the ignition/engine on, then you're counted as "driving" the vehicle. I'm pretty much always wrong on this st though.
Much the same for drunk driving - in charge of the vehicle?
So if the keys are in my pocket whilst someone else is driving?
The joys of keyless ignition, the legislation can't keep up with technology and is usually fudged.
(See dangerous dogs act, POFA 2012 etc for fudges).

vonhosen

40,198 posts

216 months

Tuesday 23rd January 2018
quotequote all
Jonno02 said:
I was always under the impression that if the keys are in the ignition/engine on, then you're counted as "driving" the vehicle. I'm pretty much always wrong on this st though.
It rather depends what you use as the definition of driving (using some definitions you don't even have to be in the vehicle or the keys in it for it to still be regarded as being driven).
There is no definition of what amounts to driving within the mobile phone use legislation, so until somebody gets found guilty & appeals to the higher courts that they don't believe what they were doing amounted to driving, it's not clear.

Sk00p

Original Poster:

3,961 posts

226 months

Tuesday 23rd January 2018
quotequote all
CPS Website said:
Under existing case law a person may still be driving whilst the engine is running and the vehicle is stationary. This means that an individual stopped at a traffic light could be prosecuted for a mobile phone offence. The intention of the legislation is to promote road safety and so it will not normally be in the public interest to prosecute this offence if the driver has safely pulled over and stopped before taking hold of the phone.
So technically an offence but not in the public interest to prosecute...

Unless you are parked badly or an arse if confronted about it I suspect biggrin

The Rookie

286 posts

196 months

Tuesday 23rd January 2018
quotequote all
speedyguy said:
So if the keys are in my pocket whilst someone else is driving?
The joys of keyless ignition, the legislation can't keep up with technology and is usually fudged.
(See dangerous dogs act, POFA 2012 etc for fudges).
The legislation refers to driving and not keys in the ignition, as such it can be argued to have kept well ahead of technology.

It is for the court decide in any particular case whether the drivers activity amounted to driving (or not).

cmaguire

3,589 posts

108 months

Tuesday 23rd January 2018
quotequote all
HantsRat said:
Yes they're not driving. It's a bit different to being on your phone at a red light waiting to move off. They're parked up on hard shoulder, hand brake on and not going anywhere so not driving.
Looks more like they're both on a sliproad joining the main carriageway, somewhat early considering they have both crossed a solid white line.

RizzoTheRat

25,085 posts

191 months

Tuesday 23rd January 2018
quotequote all
Is that the photo posted by the police? If so is definitely taken on a mobile phone? Quite a few forces are using body worn cameras these days.

ashleyman

6,963 posts

98 months

Tuesday 23rd January 2018
quotequote all
Atomic12C said:
HantsRat said:
Yes they're not driving. It's a bit different to being on your phone at a red light waiting to move off. They're parked up on hard shoulder, hand brake on and not going anywhere so not driving.
It is a bit different, but its still 'driving', and therefore still illegal to use a hand held device.

To be legal he would have had to turn off the engine and get out of the vehicle before using the hand held device.
Engine must be off as that is also illegal to leave a vehicle on the highway with engine running.


If however, that image is from a head mounted camera, or a fixed mounted camera, then its a non-issue.


(I'm sure I'll be corrected if that is wrong).
This is how I understood it too.. I know for sure this has been previously debated by Surrey Road Police on Twitter with a similar photo but they're engine was off. It's hard not to think one rule for them, one rule for us. I wonder if the ignition is on but start/stop engaged if that would count as off or on.

Chrisgr31

13,440 posts

254 months

Tuesday 23rd January 2018
quotequote all
ashleyman said:
This is how I understood it too.. I know for sure this has been previously debated by Surrey Road Police on Twitter with a similar photo but they're engine was off. It's hard not to think one rule for them, one rule for us. I wonder if the ignition is on but start/stop engaged if that would count as off or on.
Would he be able to turn the engine off? If he is stationery on the hard shoulder presumably the roof lights are going to be flashing away, the radio live etc. Does that mean he cant turn the engine off due to battery going flat?

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 23rd January 2018
quotequote all
One driver is texting while driving - a dangerous thing to do. A police driver in a stopped car takes a photo - not a dangerous thing to do. But never mind that - slag off the cozzers!

Ninja59

3,691 posts

111 months

Tuesday 23rd January 2018
quotequote all
Breadvan72 said:
One driver is texting while driving - a dangerous thing to do. A police driver in a stopped car takes a photo - not a dangerous thing to do. But never mind that - slag off the cozzers!
In a stopped car, but the engine is clearly on this photo. I am sure there are people that have been caught on the hard shoulder or car park with the engine on with the phone.

HantsRat

2,369 posts

107 months

Tuesday 23rd January 2018
quotequote all
Ninja59 said:
In a stopped car, but the engine is clearly on this photo. I am sure there are people that have been caught on the hard shoulder or car park with the engine on with the phone.
I'm not aware of any one that has been given a ticket whilst parked or on hard shoulder? If you stopped on the hard shoulder just to make a phone call (Non emergency) then that's a different matter.

ashleyman

6,963 posts

98 months

Tuesday 23rd January 2018
quotequote all
Chrisgr31 said:
ashleyman said:
This is how I understood it too.. I know for sure this has been previously debated by Surrey Road Police on Twitter with a similar photo but they're engine was off. It's hard not to think one rule for them, one rule for us. I wonder if the ignition is on but start/stop engaged if that would count as off or on.
Would he be able to turn the engine off? If he is stationery on the hard shoulder presumably the roof lights are going to be flashing away, the radio live etc. Does that mean he cant turn the engine off due to battery going flat?
One would assume the emergency lights would run even when the vehicle is turned off, much the same as regular hazard lights. I'd also expect computers, radios etc... to be on some kind of voltage cut off to prevent battery drain but who knows.

I remember me and the wife had a big disagreement about her sitting in a parked car with the engine on whilst fiddling with her phone. I kept saying it was illegal and she could be done for it and she kept saying she couldn't. I think this was around the same time the phone laws changed to 6 points but I can't remember now.