M25 and M1 Cameras

[BertBert]

I think you are making more of this than needs be.
If there is a speed limit sign over your lane, that's the limit. If not, it's NSL

Why would be it be any different?

ashleyman said:

In English?

[BertBert]

If it helps... https://www.gov.uk/guidance/how-to-drive-on-a-smar...

[ghe13rte]

ashleyman said:

ghe13rte said:

1. There is no correct speed in that situation although it appears that from what HE have explained is that the limit was commanded to 40mph. With the signs set as displayed then the only limit that was able to be enforced is the NSL 70 so it is that limit which is valid and none other. If what you mean by "correct speed limit" is what was it commanded to then it appears to have been 40mph. What is commanded is not an influence on what is enforced unless that limit is shown on the signs when commanded.

In English?

1. 70mph

[Pegscratch]

ashleyman said:

ghe13rte said:

1. There is no correct speed in that situation although it appears that from what HE have explained is that the limit was commanded to 40mph. With the signs set as displayed then the only limit that was able to be enforced is the NSL 70 so it is that limit which is valid and none other. If what you mean by "correct speed limit" is what was it commanded to then it appears to have been 40mph. What is commanded is not an influence on what is enforced unless that limit is shown on the signs when commanded.

In English?

Common sense suggests the lower limit is the most sensible conclusion, however they cannot enforce a confusing message so the NSL applies for enforcement.

[Landshark]

The HADECS 3 take a photo of the gantry at the same time as enforcement photos of the vehicle. Any discrepancies will show on those. The cameras are suppose to be smart enough to spot if a signal is not clear enough and cease enforcement. If a gantry is showing for example 40 40 blank 50 50, then the limit would be 50 (even though it shouldn’t show this, we all know it does). A blank sign over a lane doesn’t mean it’s NSL, you can have just one sign with a limit and that is the limit (see the MS4 signs on the M3).

The feed from the HADECS cameras (in Surrey) go straight through to the safety camera partnership and are dealt with from there. HE are only responsible for the setting of the signals and signs not the enforcement.

[ashleyman]

So we've got BertBert saying the limit is NSL, Pegscratch saying it's the lowest shown and Landshark saying 50 which in his example is the highest shown.

I might have to try and contact Surrey Camera Partnership, shame they close at 1.

Edited by ashleyman on Thursday 22 March 15:50

[ghe13rte]

Landshark said:

The HADECS 3 take a photo of the gantry at the same time as enforcement photos of the vehicle. Any discrepancies will show on those. The cameras are suppose to be smart enough to spot if a signal is not clear enough and cease enforcement. If a gantry is showing for example 40 40 blank 50 50, then the limit would be 50 (even though it shouldn’t show this, we all know it does). A blank sign over a lane doesn’t mean it’s NSL, you can have just one sign with a limit and that is the limit (see the MS4 signs on the M3).

The feed from the HADECS cameras (in Surrey) go straight through to the safety camera partnership and are dealt with from there. HE are only responsible for the setting of the signals and signs not the enforcement.

In the versions before HADECS3 the systems were smart enough to cease enforcement in a moxed signal state as the speed limt signal woudl not be passed to the speed camera.
In HADECS3 the system is even smarter. It sees the mixed signal and will defalt to the NSL70. The reason this logic is introduced is becasue the highest speed on a motorway is NSL70 and can never be exceeded no matter what the signal state is.
It would be interesting to see what line of defence someone takes when seen at a speed of more than 70mph in a situation where the limit is signalled defectively like it is in the video in this thread. What would it be? "The limit isn't clear, I can therefore drive at 100mph...you can't touch me!"
I can't see that working.

[ghe13rte]

ashleyman said:

So we've got BertBert saying the limit is NSL, Pegscratch saying it's the lowest shown and Landshark saying 50 which in his example is the highest shown.

I might have to try and contact Surrey Camera Partnership, shame they close at 1.

Edited by ashleyman on Thursday 22 March 15:50

The signs for the limit are defective in that state so it is academic what the actual limit is.

What I can say is that caution should be taken at such a location.

I can also say that should a speed camera be mounted on that gantry it would enforce 70mph and lawfully so.

[Landshark]

ashleyman said:

So we've got BertBert saying the limit is NSL, Pegscratch saying it's the lowest shown and Landshark saying 50 which in his example is the highest shown.

I might have to try and contact Surrey Camera Partnership, shame they close at 1.

Edited by ashleyman on Thursday 22 March 15:50

[ashleyman]

Landshark said:

ashleyman said:

So we've got BertBert saying the limit is NSL, Pegscratch saying it's the lowest shown and Landshark saying 50 which in his example is the highest shown.

I might have to try and contact Surrey Camera Partnership, shame they close at 1.

Edited by ashleyman on Thursday 22 March 15:50

You can tell them to expect my call.

[BertBert]

So in which case, what is the point of a speed limit sign over each lane? And more importantly in the seeming absence of any information to the contrary why would it be right to conclude that a blank over a lane means that lane is the same as the others?

What if you have 4 lanes, 4 signs and two at 40, two at 50. Would would you conclude then?

Bert

Landshark said:

A blank sign over a lane doesn’t mean it’s NSL, you can have just one sign with a limit and that is the limit (see the MS4 signs on the M3).
.

[ashleyman]

I got a reply from Highways England

HE said:

Dear Mr,

I’ve asked our technology team your questions and their answer is below:

The safe speed to travel is within the speed limit shown in the particular lane. Differential speed limits can apply between slip road lanes and main carriageway.

If on a multi-lane carriageway one of the AMI signals shows blank then I believe NSL applies legally, though it would be safer to drive within the speed limit shown for the other lanes if lower, on the basis that the blank AMI signal was faulty.

There are built-in safe­guards which pre­vent the speed enforcement cam­era from acti­vat­ing if there is a crit­i­cal fault with the AMI sig­nal at that location. The sys­tem is designed to ensure that it will only cap­ture an offence when the equip­ment is work­ing cor­rectly.

[Landshark]

BertBert said:

So in which case, what is the point of a speed limit sign over each lane? And more importantly in the seeming absence of any information to the contrary why would it be right to conclude that a blank over a lane means that lane is the same as the others?

What if you have 4 lanes, 4 signs and two at 40, two at 50. Would would you conclude then?

Bert

You can only have one limit for a carriageway, you CANNOT have two limits for the same road. It’s a bit like saying you can have a a 40 limit going one way on a normal road but in the other direction it’s 60. You cannot do that because if you turn around half way down the road, what’s the limit!!

The HE are right, you can have different speeds on slips, but not that if it’s blank the NSL applies, the speed limit for that carriageway can be shown by one sign.

If I saw 40 40 50 50 I would conclude the gantry is knackered or not been set up correctly!!

[Landshark]

This is the newer MS4 signs

One speed limit sign for the whole carriageway.

The red X’s are now enforceable in this setup (previously they weren’t and had to be above each lane)

These are mixed in with full gantries on the M3 and parts of the M25.

[RRBill]

They need the fines to pay for the massive expensive sign, when they could of mounted a much less expensive bit of kit on the bridge just a few yards ahead. Easily maintained from the bridge. Just need a sub machine gun to keep the local hoodlums for messing with them.

It’s just easy to keep on spending other people’s money , once the speeding fines have paid for your golden pension.

[CzechItOut]

Is there any evidence of people receiving tickets for driving low-70s or is this another social media myth.

[Swole]

FYI, anti-clock between J9 and J8 M25, the latest HADECS 3 has now had its EAV cameras installed so, it’s now either live or about to be.

Edited by Swole on Saturday 7th April 09:10

[robertwoolsey]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/am...

!?......

[OD1122]

I was driving at 2 am last night doing 77 on the M1 at Sheffield at I saw the cameras go off as I drove through the gantry. There was no speed limit posted and Another car was doing the same speed at the time on my right hand side.

Unsure whether I'm going to be fined or if it will wavered?

I'll update in two weeks time.

[legendracer]

OD1122 said:

I was driving at 2 am last night doing 77 on the M1 at Sheffield at I saw the cameras go off as I drove through the gantry. There was no speed limit posted and Another car was doing the same speed at the time on my right hand side.

Unsure whether I'm going to be fined or if it will wavered?

I'll update in two weeks time.

Is 77mph on speedo fine on M and A roads?
Is it possible to increase speed between gantries without camera fines? At least when traffic is nil.