Cycle Event Marshals

Author
Discussion

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
quotequote all
LG9k said:
Yoda is among us!

Sadly you've missed the point completely. We are talking about Time Trials and Road Races.

These do not reduce the number of cars on the as the journeys made in these events would not be made at all, otherwise.

In fact, they do nothing but increase congestion and the associated pollution (as a result of motorists having to slow down and then speed up again to overtake them).

Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 23 February 14:11
So shall we put some facts to this, I know that when it comes to cycling this sort of thing is frowned upon but here goes;

  • It has little bearing on actual traffic in respect to getting to the event as otherwise that person would likely be travelling somewhere else, shall we ration all journeys, starting with food shopping and DIY trips perhaps?
  • On a 10 mile TT if you get caught behind a car it will likely slow the cyclist down. A decent club rider will be averaging 27 mph over that distance.
  • TT riders are started at one minute intervals. Given that most events are held at times when the traffic volume is low most people are not that bothered and can safely navigate the riders.
  • It is a totally legal event

The issue is there are too many self important types who just want to get upset over nothing in this world. If it wasn't cycling it would be horses, or joggers, or tractors, or road sweepers, etc.

I once had this guy stop and lecture me (I was a marshal) on a 25 mile TT. He asked me 'How the fk do you lot get away with this, someone will get fking killed, you're idiots' He gave me this wisdom whilst stopped on a roundabout off of the A41, no indicators on, large coffee sat in his dash and a mobile in his lap.

That particular course is, in my opinion, dodgy. I have ridden it because it's a. fast and b. local. But the second time I did I was almost taken out by two Range Rovers having a bit of a tear up. Being a dual carriageway the one in the inside lane got boxed by the driver in the outside lane. They both floored it and paid no attention to the poor sucker up ahead. They came past at probably 80-90mph and I felt the rear wheel get pulled by the air. The fact that one of them lent on the horn, when all he/she had to do was ease off the loud pedal for about 2 secs and pull out just sums up the level of cretinous drivers that we all have to put up with.

No doubt they both went to a motoring forum shortly after to start a topic on cyclists, those bds.




Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 23 February 15:47

LG9k

443 posts

221 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
quotequote all
yonex said:
So shall we put some facts to this, I know that when it comes to cycling this sort of thing is frowned upon but here goes;

  • It has little bearing on actual traffic in respect to getting to the event as otherwise that person would likely be travelling somewhere else, shall we ration all journeys, starting with food shopping and DIY trips perhaps?
  • On a 10 mile TT if you get caught behind a car it will likely slow the cyclist down. A decent club rider will be averaging 27 mph over that distance.
  • TT riders are started at one minute intervals. Given that most events are held at times when the traffic volume is low most people are not that bothered and can safely navigate the riders.
  • It is a totally legal event

The issue is there are too many self important types who just want to get upset over nothing in this world. If it wasn't cycling it would be horses, or joggers, or tractors, or road sweepers, etc.

I once had this guy stop and lecture me (I was a marshal) on a 25 mile TT. He asked me 'How the fk do you lot get away with this, someone will get fking killed, you're idiots' He gave me this wisdom whilst stopped on a roundabout off of the A41, no indicators on, large coffee sat in his dash and a mobile in his lap.

That particular course is, in my opinion, dodgy. I have ridden it because it's a. fast and b. local. But the second time I did I was almost taken out by two Range Rovers having a bit of a tear up. Being a dual carriageway the one in the inside lane got boxed by the driver in the outside lane. They both floored it and paid no attention to the poor sucker up ahead. They came past at probably 80-90mph and I felt the rear wheel get pulled by the air. The fact that one of them lent on the horn, when all he/she had to do was ease off the loud pedal for about 2 secs and pull out just sums up the level of cretinous drivers that we all have to put up with.

No doubt they both went to a motoring forum shortly after to start a topic on cyclists, those bds.




Edited by yonex on Friday 23 February 15:47
What a strange set of points which contain no relevant facts at all.

The cyclists are only on this route because they are taking part in the event. There's no other reason.

If the cyclist is averaging 27, that's a bit below the speed limit on most roads (I'd hope they don't run these events in 20mph zones), so the cyclists will be slower than cars. That's a fact, especially if the routes have speed limits of above 30mph and don't contain traffic lights etc as has been explained above by others. A car will be quicker because it can accelerate more quickly, go at a higher speed, brake later and corner faster.

You say that people can safely navigate the cyclists and then give an example of when this doesn't happen! (No argument that the RRs were at fault.

No-one has said these events are not legal.

My personal view is that it would be better if they were not held on roads shared with other forms of transport, some more vulnerable, some less.

Better and safer for cyclists as no cretinous motorists to deal with. No potholes, roundabouts or traffic lights to impede progress.
Better for motorists, as they do not have to negotiate cyclists involved in a competitive event.

Note that I, too, am a cyclist, so I do understand the cyclists point of view. Having said that, my cycling involves actually going somewhere.

Edited by LG9k on Friday 23 February 16:17

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
quotequote all
LG9k said:
If the cyclist is averaging 27, that's a bit below the speed limit on most roads (I'd hope they don't run these events in 20mph zones), so the cyclists will be slower than cars. That's a fact, especially if the routes have speed limits of above 30mph and don't contain traffic lights etc as has been explained above by others. A car will be quicker because it can accelerate more quickly, go at a higher speed, brake later and corner faster.
Average speeds. Maximum speeds in the 30 mph limit were about 32-33 mph, it is very easy to get held up by traffic.

LG9k said:
My personal view is that it would be better if they were not held on roads shared with other forms of transport, some more vulnerable, some less.
It's a bit of joke in the UK, we have a terrible attitude towards cyclists in general.




LG9k

443 posts

221 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
quotequote all
yonex said:
Average speeds. Maximum speeds in the 30 mph limit were about 32-33 mph, it is very easy to get held up by traffic.
So, still slower than most traffic on most free moving roads, even when going at max speed. Thank you for accepting the point so graciously smile

BMWBen

4,899 posts

200 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
quotequote all
yonex said:
LG9k said:
If the cyclist is averaging 27, that's a bit below the speed limit on most roads (I'd hope they don't run these events in 20mph zones), so the cyclists will be slower than cars. That's a fact, especially if the routes have speed limits of above 30mph and don't contain traffic lights etc as has been explained above by others. A car will be quicker because it can accelerate more quickly, go at a higher speed, brake later and corner faster.
Average speeds. Maximum speeds in the 30 mph limit were about 32-33 mph, it is very easy to get held up by traffic.

LG9k said:
My personal view is that it would be better if they were not held on roads shared with other forms of transport, some more vulnerable, some less.
It's a bit of joke in the UK, we have a terrible attitude towards cyclists in general.
yes
Earlier this week I was riding down a 30 limit road with a tailwind... comfortably doing just over 30mph. There's a shared cycle path often with dog walkers and pushchairs scattered around... You can guess where this is going...

First car behind me goes for an overtake, without understanding that the cyclist in front of them is going rather quickly and fails to judge the amount of space they need. Oncoming traffic has to brake hard and take evasive action. To their credit they didn't just swerve into me. Oooh loook a cyclist is in my way, I must get past it as soon as possible.

Next car behind decides that this sorry debacle is *my* fault. So starts revving his engine and hooting. Then goes for an overtake, pulls in front of me... brake tests me and swears at me and gestures that I should be on the cycle path. Brake tests me again, then speeds off at over 40. confused

The sad thing is that this is what we've come to expect. It's a very disappointing situation.

BMWBen

4,899 posts

200 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
quotequote all
LG9k said:
yonex said:
Average speeds. Maximum speeds in the 30 mph limit were about 32-33 mph, it is very easy to get held up by traffic.
So, still slower than most traffic on most free moving roads, even when going at max speed. Thank you for accepting the point so graciously smile
Yet somehow, when I used to commute to work on my bike, riding was still quicker by a good 50% margin.

Bikes are definitely the problem, yes sir.

You spend more time being held up either directly by other cars, or by measures put in to control cars in a single journey than you do being held up by bikes in a whole year, I'd wager.


LG9k

443 posts

221 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
quotequote all
BMWBen said:
yes
Earlier this week I was riding down a 30 limit road with a tailwind... comfortably doing just over 30mph. There's a shared cycle path often with dog walkers and pushchairs scattered around... You can guess where this is going...

First car behind me goes for an overtake, without understanding that the cyclist in front of them is going rather quickly and fails to judge the amount of space they need. Oncoming traffic has to brake hard and take evasive action. To their credit they didn't just swerve into me. Oooh loook a cyclist is in my way, I must get past it as soon as possible.

Next car behind decides that this sorry debacle is *my* fault. So starts revving his engine and hooting. Then goes for an overtake, pulls in front of me... brake tests me and swears at me and gestures that I should be on the cycle path. Brake tests me again, then speeds off at over 40. confused

The sad thing is that this is what we've come to expect. It's a very disappointing situation.
So, you were speeding, off to the cells with you wink


BMWBen

4,899 posts

200 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
quotequote all
LG9k said:
BMWBen said:
yes
Earlier this week I was riding down a 30 limit road with a tailwind... comfortably doing just over 30mph. There's a shared cycle path often with dog walkers and pushchairs scattered around... You can guess where this is going...

First car behind me goes for an overtake, without understanding that the cyclist in front of them is going rather quickly and fails to judge the amount of space they need. Oncoming traffic has to brake hard and take evasive action. To their credit they didn't just swerve into me. Oooh loook a cyclist is in my way, I must get past it as soon as possible.

Next car behind decides that this sorry debacle is *my* fault. So starts revving his engine and hooting. Then goes for an overtake, pulls in front of me... brake tests me and swears at me and gestures that I should be on the cycle path. Brake tests me again, then speeds off at over 40. confused

The sad thing is that this is what we've come to expect. It's a very disappointing situation.
So, you were speeding, off to the cells with you wink
Haha, actually, I wasn't laugh

Here's a summary of the legal situation:
https://www.slatergordon.co.uk/media-centre/blog/2...

LG9k

443 posts

221 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
quotequote all
BMWBen said:
Yet somehow, when I used to commute to work on my bike, riding was still quicker by a good 50% margin.

Bikes are definitely the problem, yes sir.
This has nothing to do with commuting. We are talking about time trials on roads where traffic is moving.

Can no-one understand context any more?

It's quicker for me to walk to my local railway station than to drive at busy times. I often get around quicker on my bike than I would in my car, too, so I'm well aware that alternative forms of transport are sometimes quicker than cars.

BMWBen

4,899 posts

200 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
quotequote all
LG9k said:
BMWBen said:
Yet somehow, when I used to commute to work on my bike, riding was still quicker by a good 50% margin.

Bikes are definitely the problem, yes sir.
This has nothing to do with commuting. We are talking about time trials on roads where traffic is moving.

Can no-one understand context any more?

It's quicker for me to walk to my local railway station than to drive, so I'm well aware that alternative forms of transport are sometimes quicker than cars.
If you want to specifically restrict your point to that situation then fair play.

In that case de minimis applies - if the traffic is free flowing then you can easily pass the TT rider without experiencing any kind of significant delay. If the traffic is heavy enough that you cannot pass fairly easily, then you will experience far more significant delays as a result of that traffic.

LG9k

443 posts

221 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
quotequote all
BMWBen said:
If you want to specifically restrict your point to that situation then fair play.

In that case de minimis applies - if the traffic is free flowing then you can easily pass the TT rider without experiencing any kind of significant delay. If the traffic is heavy enough that you cannot pass fairly easily, then you will experience far more significant delays as a result of that traffic.
See the thread title FFS.


BMWBen

4,899 posts

200 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
quotequote all
LG9k said:
BMWBen said:
If you want to specifically restrict your point to that situation then fair play.

In that case de minimis applies - if the traffic is free flowing then you can easily pass the TT rider without experiencing any kind of significant delay. If the traffic is heavy enough that you cannot pass fairly easily, then you will experience far more significant delays as a result of that traffic.
See the thread title FFS.
I'm sorry, your point was so weak I didn't think it could really be strictly on topic. rolleyes

StanleyT

1,994 posts

78 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
quotequote all
I should step back in and help the thread here.

I am a cyclist.

I don't mind other cyclists, horse riders and even tolerate city centre roads being closed for Marathons.

What I can't stand are cycling marshalls. I don't think anyone has done it yet so Godwin's Law is invoked as the one that used to annoy us looked like a fat sweaty cross between Frank Sidebottom and Hitler, little Hitler that he was. If it was Little Frank in lifeform, apologies to the relatives and the estate of the dead Chris Spyviy (Frank Sidebottom himself).

So cyclists good, cyclist marshalls being authoritarian coz looking like Hilter and HizViz, bad.

Could we have cycling TT races without the marshalls and then no one would complain? Perhaps there could be an app that records peoples cycling efforts, distance vs. time vs. map and there would be no need for these marshalls, cyclist being sensible enough to judge the road conditions / rights of way / other vehicle response times?

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
quotequote all
If you want to race you need marshals, most clubs have a policy where you have to marshal at least once. It’s a thankless task, but without these individuals giving up their free time nobody would get to enjoy events.

I was always told never to direct traffic, warn riders but nothing more. The whole purpose of marshals is to alert the road traffic to the fact that someone other than their precious selves are daring to make a turn at a certain place. It’s just so damned inconsiderate of everybody else? It’s also a visual market to the riders. What’s the bloody issue? Late for a coffee biggrin

So. It’s nonsense that you don’t need marshals. It’s also classic angry motorist perception that they believe all marshals want a power trip. The fact is, in all the TT’s I helped at only once has anyone caused an issue, and that was a bottom feeder in a white van.


StanleyT

1,994 posts

78 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
quotequote all
And a marshall like yourself would be fine. It is when you get a shouty little man telling you repeatedly on Sundays to move cars outside your houses (cars which might not actually be known to you) you form a bad opinion.

Admittedly three months experience may have tainted me without it being representative of a sample of the whole; soul searching I can't think of any other times I have seen cyle marshalls, so on a small population extract I have asumed all were as bad as this little man. I shall keep my eyes out for good ones to correct my bias.

However, I do live by the idiom "stereotypes exist for a reason".

Red Devil

13,055 posts

207 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
quotequote all
StanleyT said:
If it was Little Frank in lifeform, apologies to the relatives and the estate of the dead Chris Spyviy (Frank Sidebottom himself).
You could at least spell his name right. rolleyes - Chris Sievey

Who remembers him from earlier as the front man for the Freshers? - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HZBfN8-w5U
Later, in character as Frank, there was the Oh Blimey Big Band - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y48U3_ZIZ4
Chris Evans (yes that Chris Evans, before he found fame and wealth) was their driver.


FiF

43,960 posts

250 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
quotequote all
ChevronB19 said:
Am on tenterhooks (whatever they are)
In an attempt to make the thread useful I can tell you exactly what they are. In the summer between finishing my A levels and scuttling off to university I worked in a Huddersfield textile factory engaged in dying and finishing woollen cloth.

One of my jobs during the summer shutdown was to replace all the tenterhooks on the tenter. The tenter was a machine used to dry the cloth pieces after dying and washing. There were two chains carrying the tenterhooks, one each side of a conveyor, these chains were several hundred metres long, the wet cloth was attached to the chains by the cloth edges, the selvedge, this being gripped by the tenterhooks, it was then stretched and then passed through a warm drying oven to dry and pre shrink the cloth.

The tenterhooks were ceramic blocks, about the size of bicycle brake blocks, to keep it vaguely on topic, and eight curved very sharp wire hooks stuck out of the top of this block. Each block was attached to the chain by an Allen screw, and after 12 months of repeated heating and cooling these screws were as tight as , well very tight. So my job was to replace about 6 of these blocks on each chain, then move the chains using the inching control, change the next 6, and so on. Most boring job ever.

Them are tenterhooks. Eye thang yew.

LG9k

443 posts

221 months

Saturday 24th February 2018
quotequote all
BMWBen said:
I'm sorry, your point was so weak I didn't think it could really be strictly on topic. rolleyes
Your whole argument had nothing whatsoever to do with this thread, which is about competitive cycling events taking place on the roads. You came in and spouted some crap about commuting.

Clear enough?

BMWBen

4,899 posts

200 months

Saturday 24th February 2018
quotequote all
LG9k said:
BMWBen said:
I'm sorry, your point was so weak I didn't think it could really be strictly on topic. rolleyes
Your whole argument had nothing whatsoever to do with this thread, which is about competitive cycling events taking place on the roads. You came in and spouted some crap about commuting.

Clear enough?
It's actually about marshals and whether or not they can legally direct traffic, champ. So yes, clear, but unfortunately way off the mark.

You can either be a stickler for keeping things perfectly on topic, or you can allow the discussion to be taken elsewhere. What you seem to want is for you to be able to take the discussion elsewhere and then everyone else to have to stick to your new "topic".


Edited by BMWBen on Saturday 24th February 17:09

ChevronB19

5,737 posts

162 months

Saturday 24th February 2018
quotequote all
FiF said:
ChevronB19 said:
Am on tenterhooks (whatever they are)
In an attempt to make the thread useful I can tell you exactly what they are. In the summer between finishing my A levels and scuttling off to university I worked in a Huddersfield textile factory engaged in dying and finishing woollen cloth.

One of my jobs during the summer shutdown was to replace all the tenterhooks on the tenter. The tenter was a machine used to dry the cloth pieces after dying and washing. There were two chains carrying the tenterhooks, one each side of a conveyor, these chains were several hundred metres long, the wet cloth was attached to the chains by the cloth edges, the selvedge, this being gripped by the tenterhooks, it was then stretched and then passed through a warm drying oven to dry and pre shrink the cloth.

The tenterhooks were ceramic blocks, about the size of bicycle brake blocks, to keep it vaguely on topic, and eight curved very sharp wire hooks stuck out of the top of this block. Each block was attached to the chain by an Allen screw, and after 12 months of repeated heating and cooling these screws were as tight as , well very tight. So my job was to replace about 6 of these blocks on each chain, then move the chains using the inching control, change the next 6, and so on. Most boring job ever.

Them are tenterhooks. Eye thang yew.
Fantastic, thanks!