Question about police pensions

Question about police pensions

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Discussion

wiliferus

4,053 posts

197 months

Sunday 25th February 2018
quotequote all
Greendubber said:
Bigends said:
sidicks said:
Which must be due to significant pay rises in the last 3 years, as the accrual rate doesn't change over that period?
Wouldnt know now though that was the case 12yrs ago when I got mine
I wouldn't have thought so, top whack PC/PS etc wages are reached way before retirement age.

I'm 11 years in, have 24 years to do and have been on top whack PC for over 12 months. I think it's reached in 9 years now?
No significant pay rises in last few years unless you go for promotion. I’ve been a top rate PC for 10 years now.

Bigends

5,412 posts

127 months

Sunday 25th February 2018
quotequote all
wiliferus said:
No significant pay rises in last few years unless you go for promotion. I’ve been a top rate PC for 10 years now.
We didnt used to get to top whack until 18yrs in. Used to get increments 1 - 8 yrs. Then at 12yrs then 18.

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Sunday 25th February 2018
quotequote all
djc206 said:
I’m not Police but our DB scheme has some sort of flex agreement that allows people to go at 57 instead of 60 for only a small penalty, going at 55 by comparison is ruinous.
The documentation refers to 4-5% reductions per annum.

Greendubber

13,128 posts

202 months

Sunday 25th February 2018
quotequote all
wiliferus said:
Greendubber said:
Bigends said:
sidicks said:
Which must be due to significant pay rises in the last 3 years, as the accrual rate doesn't change over that period?
Wouldnt know now though that was the case 12yrs ago when I got mine
I wouldn't have thought so, top whack PC/PS etc wages are reached way before retirement age.

I'm 11 years in, have 24 years to do and have been on top whack PC for over 12 months. I think it's reached in 9 years now?
No significant pay rises in last few years unless you go for promotion. I’ve been a top rate PC for 10 years now.
Pretty sure now it's changed. Lots of people got their stripes with a few years to go and got a much bigger pension, pretty sure it's a career average pension now to stop it happening.

pavarotti1980

4,836 posts

83 months

Sunday 25th February 2018
quotequote all
sidicks said:
I have had some discussions on an entirely different issue, highlighting some additional information where I did have some knowledge. All of which was accurate with the exception of the commutation factors, which have recently been updated.

Funnily enough, no-one was complaining when these factors were updated (due to market conditions) in favour of the officers...

Edited by sidicks on Sunday 25th February 20:31
What an absolute joker you are.

No knowledge of it. No posts due to no knowledge but here we are with you still posting about a subject you have no knowledge on. It's not as if you have contradicted your first few posts at all.

Edited by pavarotti1980 on Sunday 25th February 21:10

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Sunday 25th February 2018
quotequote all
pavarotti1980 said:
What an absolute joker you are.

No knowledge of it. No posts due to no knowledge but here we are with you still posting about a subject you have no knowledge on. It's not as if you have contradicted your first few posts at all.
How many more times? We are now talking about an entirely different issue (and have been for some time) than the OP raised and which was answered on page 1, to which you (and I) were originally referring to. An issue that I do have some knowledge about. Unlike you it would appear.

Now please stop trolling and failing to score points, making yourself look more and more pathetic each time.

Edited by sidicks on Sunday 25th February 21:21

crankedup

25,764 posts

242 months

Sunday 25th February 2018
quotequote all
iDrive said:
sidicks said:
The issue is a legal one about entitlement to pensions who for those who have been sacked from the force... ...and hence not one that I have any expert knowledge about.

I've made this quite clear on more than one occasion:

sidicks said:
I've no idea about the question the OP raised, so won't be commenting on that.
I know that you like to comment on things that you don't have any knowledge about, but I try not to. HTH
Just to be clear....

You've commented on a thread, the subject of which you know nothing about, to tell everyone that you don't comment on threads you know nothing about?


Crikey.
Flippin’ eck, just got in ten minutes ago and catching up with the latest episodes in sid’s life. I mean ffs most posters in here simply want to have a natter, this is not a day in the office.

crankedup

25,764 posts

242 months

Sunday 25th February 2018
quotequote all
sidicks said:
Red 4 said:
Not really.

You expect 60 year olds to be rolling 'round on the floor with pissed/ coked up 18 year old scaffolders (for example) ?
No, but presumably as officers become more experienced, the nature of their role changes?
rofl


Red 4

10,744 posts

186 months

Sunday 25th February 2018
quotequote all
Greendubber said:
Pretty sure now it's changed. Lots of people got their stripes with a few years to go and got a much bigger pension, pretty sure it's a career average pension now to stop it happening.
Yep - it's career average now unless you are fortunate enough to remain in the 87 scheme.

So that's increased contributions, extra years worked, a smaller pension and a massively smaller lump sum.

That all assumes you remain fit enough to remain deployable until you are 60.

Ill health retirement benefits also took a massive hit with the introduction of the 2006 and 2015 schemes.

Still, it could be worse - you could be a fireman. Now there's another can of worms ...

djc206

12,239 posts

124 months

Sunday 25th February 2018
quotequote all
Red 4 said:
Yep - it's career average now unless you are fortunate enough to remain in the 87 scheme.

So that's increased contributions, extra years worked, a smaller pension and a massively smaller lump sum.

That all assumes you remain fit enough to remain deployable until you are 60.

Ill health retirement benefits also took a massive hit with the introduction of the 2006 and 2015 schemes.

Still, it could be worse - you could be a fireman. Now there's another can of worms ...
Don’t firemen get more time off than police officers though? My fiancées ex was a fireman and he was a plasterer on the side. Or has that changed now as well?

Red 4

10,744 posts

186 months

Sunday 25th February 2018
quotequote all
Bigends said:
The Police pension used to make its biggest gains in the final three years
Nonsense.

The 87 scheme has the same accrual rate for the final 10 years (2/60 per year).


sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Sunday 25th February 2018
quotequote all
Red 4 said:
Yep - it's career average now unless you are fortunate enough to remain in the 87 scheme.
Was future accrual under the 87 scheme not discontinued when the 2015 rules were out in place?

Red 4 said:
So that's increased contributions, extra years worked, a smaller pension and a massively smaller lump sum.
The size of the pension will depend on the actual earnings when grossed up at the revaluation rate (which is inflation plus 1.25%).

Strictly speaking it’s a smaller pension OR a smaller lump sum, as there is no additional lump sum promise. The lump sum commutation is lower because the expected future lifetime is lower).


sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Sunday 25th February 2018
quotequote all
Red 4 said:
Bigends said:
The Police pension used to make its biggest gains in the final three years
Nonsense.

The 87 scheme has the same accrual rate for the final 10 years (2/60 per year).
When I pointed this out, above, it was suggested that this was due to (artificial) large pay increases immediately prior to retirement, in which case it seems reasonable that this approach should not be used to distort the pension received in the new scheme.

Bigends

5,412 posts

127 months

Sunday 25th February 2018
quotequote all
Red 4 said:
Nonsense.

The 87 scheme has the same accrual rate for the final 10 years (2/60 per year).
Certainly what I was told prior to finishing in 2005 not that I was overly fussed as it didnt matter as I did the full 30 in any case

Red 4

10,744 posts

186 months

Sunday 25th February 2018
quotequote all
djc206 said:
Don’t firemen get more time off than police officers though? My fiancées ex was a fireman and he was a plasterer on the side. Or has that changed now as well?
I think some firemen will be getting lots and lots of time off.

The govt has introduced a fitness test for the Fire Service which,is very difficult to pass in your 50's.
The government's own research tells them this - but they don't appear to care/ they want it that way.

The result will be dismissal on capability grounds if fire officers fail the test.
Pension frozen and not payable until age 67/ 68.

The government will save a fortune.

The police fitness test is currently easy.
The question is will it remain that way ?

There is lots of money to be saved by binning officers early and deferring their pensions

Red 4

10,744 posts

186 months

Sunday 25th February 2018
quotequote all
Bigends said:
Certainly what I was told prior to finishing in 2005 not that I was overly fussed as it didnt matter as I did the full 30 in any case
Yeah - because someone rewrote The Regulations just for you. rolleyes

You don't 'arf talk utter bks sometimes.

Bigends

5,412 posts

127 months

Sunday 25th February 2018
quotequote all
Red 4 said:
Yeah - because someone rewrote The Regulations just for you. rolleyes

You don't 'arf talk utter bks sometimes.
Not at all - I dont / and didnt have a clue in relation to pension regs - I just accepted what I was given -( as it happens I and 8yrs worth of Cops and Fireman was underpaid on commutation by 25% of what we should have received - only recently resolved ) so i'm clearly not the only one that was clueless.

Edited by Bigends on Sunday 25th February 23:45

Red 4

10,744 posts

186 months

Sunday 25th February 2018
quotequote all
sidicks said:
Was future accrual under the 87 scheme not discontinued when the 2015 rules were out in place?
Not for everyone.

If you had less than 10 years to go at April 2012/ were over a certain age (can't remember the exact details) then you were protected.

It's because the law says you can't change someone's pension within 10 years to retirement because it kinda fecks up their ability to plan for retirement.

crankedup

25,764 posts

242 months

Sunday 25th February 2018
quotequote all
Red 4 said:
djc206 said:
Don’t firemen get more time off than police officers though? My fiancées ex was a fireman and he was a plasterer on the side. Or has that changed now as well?
I think some firemen will be getting lots and lots of time off.

The govt has introduced a fitness test for the Fire Service which,is very difficult to pass in your 50's.
The government's own research tells them this - but they don't appear to care/ they want it that way.

The result will be dismissal on capability grounds if fire officers fail the test.
Pension frozen and not payable until age 67/ 68.

The government will save a fortune.

The police fitness test is currently easy.
The question is will it remain that way ?

There is lots of money to be saved by binning officers early and deferring their pensions
I know little about this situation but it comes across as fundamentally unreasonable and unfair to those affected. For those people will backroom jobs be offered?

anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 25th February 2018
quotequote all
IIRC the last 3 years were relevant if you were given a temporary rank i.e. you did you last 3 years as a T/Supt you ended up with something close to a Super's pension rather than a Chief Inspector's, which wasn't really fair.