"If" it goes to court, what are my risks?
Discussion
Tbh whilst I'm normally somewhat disparaging of the compensation culture / Daily Mail sad face hollyhocks we see, in terms of the battle chillis has had I wouldn't criticise him for trying to nail the incompetent DVLA. Furthermore the low blow by an employee reminding him it's the public purse paying for his compensation is frankly very poor, and I wouo d have reminded them that it's the public purse paying for their proven incompetence on this case, and many more, as we all know.
As for sums, I have no idea of numbers, but if someone can get 20k for briefly been shown in his pyjamas on a fly in the wall show without permission, I'd reckon chillis is due many multiples of that. Complete lay opinion admittedly, coloured by a hatred of DVLA feckwittedness coupled with a bullying attitude of "we're right, you're wrong, weren't, you're small."
More power to you chillis, nail them.
As for sums, I have no idea of numbers, but if someone can get 20k for briefly been shown in his pyjamas on a fly in the wall show without permission, I'd reckon chillis is due many multiples of that. Complete lay opinion admittedly, coloured by a hatred of DVLA feckwittedness coupled with a bullying attitude of "we're right, you're wrong, weren't, you're small."
More power to you chillis, nail them.
FiF said:
Tbh whilst I'm normally somewhat disparaging of the compensation culture / Daily Mail sad face hollyhocks we see, in terms of the battle chillis has had I wouldn't criticise him for trying to nail the incompetent DVLA. Furthermore the low blow by an employee reminding him it's the public purse paying for his compensation is frankly very poor, and I would have reminded them that it's the public purse paying for their proven incompetence on this case, and many more, as we all know.
As for sums, I have no idea of numbers, but if someone can get 20k for briefly been shown in his pyjamas on a fly in the wall show without permission, I'd reckon chillis is due many multiples of that. Complete lay opinion admittedly, coloured by a hatred of DVLA feckwittedness coupled with a bullying attitude of "we're right, you're wrong, weren't, you're small."
More power to you chillis, nail them.
Read a lot of Chili's thread re his on going fight with DVLA. I can almost imagine the frustration and anger when trying to deal with the self important f*ckwits denying their own mistakes! As for sums, I have no idea of numbers, but if someone can get 20k for briefly been shown in his pyjamas on a fly in the wall show without permission, I'd reckon chillis is due many multiples of that. Complete lay opinion admittedly, coloured by a hatred of DVLA feckwittedness coupled with a bullying attitude of "we're right, you're wrong, weren't, you're small."
More power to you chillis, nail them.
As said above, Go Get'em Chili!
Edited by Short Grain on Sunday 25th February 15:13
hutchst said:
Forget anything you've read on the internet about compensation payouts In the USA. Chuck it in the bin before you get sucked into a legal battle you might come to regret. If youre looking at American-style payouts your expectation is way too high.
This was a deliberate move on my part. I know how ridiculous the American system is that I used, I was just making a point to the DVLA. Just another box ticking exercise. I am not looking for an American style payout I just wanted the DVLA to be fully aware that as much as this was unacceptable claim to them, so would a low ball offer based on the public purse offer be, by them, to me.
As always stated I only ever wanted what was right, it’s been a bloody hard battle to get this far but at least the tide has well and truly turned, and rightly so.
They nigh on ruined us and should be accountable for it to some satisfactory level. To be honest i’d quite like my day in court to stand up if need be and tell them exactly what they put us through and just how far it pushed us, both emotionally and mentally. I have told them time and time again I would be happy to undergo any psychological analysis they feel necessary.
I explained to them in the claim that had they invited me down to Swansea to discuss these matters I would have had to refuse. Still to this day if you put me in a room with those responsible it would not end well, I would only be leaving that room in handcuffs.
Strong words, and not the words of any reasonable, rational thinking human being.
I don’t care, I mean every single word, my hatred and anger for all those responsible, runs very, very deep. Sadly they have changed me forever, just ask my poor Mrs, somehow she has stuck by my side throughout, the right outcome, victory, what ever you want to call it is as much for her as it is for me.
The faceless f
king clowns down there should be held accountable for ALL the lives they have ruined whilst the DVLA/DMG continued to fail st almost every single level.chilistrucker said:
hutchst said:
Forget anything you've read on the internet about compensation payouts In the USA. Chuck it in the bin before you get sucked into a legal battle you might come to regret. If youre looking at American-style payouts your expectation is way too high.
This was a deliberate move on my part. I know how ridiculous the American system is that I used, I was just making a point to the DVLA. Just another box ticking exercise. I am not looking for an American style payout I just wanted the DVLA to be fully aware that as much as this was unacceptable claim to them, so would a low ball offer based on the public purse offer be, by them, to me.
As always stated I only ever wanted what was right, it’s been a bloody hard battle to get this far but at least the tide has well and truly turned, and rightly so.
They nigh on ruined us and should be accountable for it to some satisfactory level. To be honest i’d quite like my day in court to stand up if need be and tell them exactly what they put us through and just how far it pushed us, both emotionally and mentally. I have told them time and time again I would be happy to undergo any psychological analysis they feel necessary.
I explained to them in the claim that had they invited me down to Swansea to discuss these matters I would have had to refuse. Still to this day if you put me in a room with those responsible it would not end well, I would only be leaving that room in handcuffs.
Strong words, and not the words of any reasonable, rational thinking human being.
I don’t care, I mean every single word, my hatred and anger for all those responsible, runs very, very deep. Sadly they have changed me forever, just ask my poor Mrs, somehow she has stuck by my side throughout, the right outcome, victory, what ever you want to call it is as much for her as it is for me.
The faceless f
king clowns down there should be held accountable for ALL the lives they have ruined whilst the DVLA/DMG continued to fail st almost every single level.Think I'd try 'Naming and Shaming' in a National Newspaper afterwards as well!! Just for my own satisfaction!
Our system is not the US one, it's irrelevant.
You deserve to be put back in financial position you would have been, had they not cocked up. Aside from that, I don't feel you have any right to demand compensation for stress. Lots of things in life are stressful. On the principle, I don't agree with you that you are entitled to compensation over and above your financial losses, unless you've developed a mental illness as a direct result of what's happened.
You have won your case, even though it might not feel like it. Digging in for a substantial uplift on the basis of damages you feel morally entitled to (if not legally) is a perverse way of extending that stress.
You deserve to be put back in financial position you would have been, had they not cocked up. Aside from that, I don't feel you have any right to demand compensation for stress. Lots of things in life are stressful. On the principle, I don't agree with you that you are entitled to compensation over and above your financial losses, unless you've developed a mental illness as a direct result of what's happened.
You have won your case, even though it might not feel like it. Digging in for a substantial uplift on the basis of damages you feel morally entitled to (if not legally) is a perverse way of extending that stress.
I would argue that if chili genuinely feels that as a result of his experience just being in the same room as these incompetent fools could very likely result in violence then that is evidence of being mentally affected, potentially long term too. Just needs the right doctor to sort his case, any decent legal outfit could point him in the right direction. Or maybe he needs a 'not so decent' one if you get my drift. Swansea won't play fair on this.
janesmith1950 said:
Our system is not the US one, it's irrelevant.
You deserve to be put back in financial position you would have been, had they not cocked up. Aside from that, I don't feel you have any right to demand compensation for stress. Lots of things in life are stressful. On the principle, I don't agree with you that you are entitled to compensation over and above your financial losses, unless you've developed a mental illness as a direct result of what's happened.
You have won your case, even though it might not feel like it. Digging in for a substantial uplift on the basis of damages you feel morally entitled to (if not legally) is a perverse way of extending that stress.
It doesn't sound to me like the OP is after a substantial uplift (although his references to the USA might suggest that), rather something that reflects the impact this experience has had on his life. It's all very well being put back into an equivalent financial position, but it's the time your life has been on hold that can never be returned and the mental impact something like this can have.You deserve to be put back in financial position you would have been, had they not cocked up. Aside from that, I don't feel you have any right to demand compensation for stress. Lots of things in life are stressful. On the principle, I don't agree with you that you are entitled to compensation over and above your financial losses, unless you've developed a mental illness as a direct result of what's happened.
You have won your case, even though it might not feel like it. Digging in for a substantial uplift on the basis of damages you feel morally entitled to (if not legally) is a perverse way of extending that stress.
Having dealt with the DVLA on a minor issue lasting no more than a few weeks I have see the Kafkaesque way they operate, so the OP has my sympathies!
janesmith1950 said:
Our system is not the US one, it's irrelevant.
You deserve to be put back in financial position you would have been, had they not cocked up. Aside from that, I don't feel you have any right to demand compensation for stress. Lots of things in life are stressful. On the principle, I don't agree with you that you are entitled to compensation over and above your financial losses, unless you've developed a mental illness as a direct result of what's happened.
You have won your case, even though it might not feel like it. Digging in for a substantial uplift on the basis of damages you feel morally entitled to (if not legally) is a perverse way of extending that stress.
The US system is indeed irrelevant but as there is nothing in place in the English system I was purely using it as a basis.You deserve to be put back in financial position you would have been, had they not cocked up. Aside from that, I don't feel you have any right to demand compensation for stress. Lots of things in life are stressful. On the principle, I don't agree with you that you are entitled to compensation over and above your financial losses, unless you've developed a mental illness as a direct result of what's happened.
You have won your case, even though it might not feel like it. Digging in for a substantial uplift on the basis of damages you feel morally entitled to (if not legally) is a perverse way of extending that stress.
Yes I have my licences back and have won my case but the fight has cost me both financially and mentally, this is not about winning some vastly inflated figure to make me feel good, it’s about getting some form of satisfactory figure for the damages that have been done.
All of the pain and suffering and injustice of the last 3 and a half years is as a direct result of the incompetence of the Drivers Medical Group and they should, (in my opinion) be accountable for this.
I’m under no false illusion here that my chances are slim, but to just walk away now at the first low, (i’m assuming) offer in relation to the stress issues would see me falling at the last hurdle.
I haven’t fought this hard for the last 3 and a half years to just walk away now.
I agree that lots of things in life are stressful, but when those stresses are caused by an inept, outdated and sub standard government organisation who have been proven to fail so many, i’m happy to consider looking at all options.
Anything I may or may not be able to achieve is worth fighting for. Anything I can do to be a thorn in the sides of the DVLA/DMG is worth it in my opinion.
Just walking away would be no real achievement,
The reason there’s nothing in the U.K. similar to what you’re looking for is because it doesn’t exist. There is no such thing as punitive damages in the U.K. Any loss has to be quantifiable and can be compensated, any spurious figure for something like stress won’t be paid out, so if you’re being offered something I’d suggest taking it.
The only place where money can be substituted for actual injury is where it’s a legally recognised injury directly caused by the defendant. Even then the amount of compensation is defined in legally accepted texts.
This stress can not be directly attributed to the defendants, it can’t be proven to exist and it has no standing as an accepted injury for which compensation is payable.
The only place where money can be substituted for actual injury is where it’s a legally recognised injury directly caused by the defendant. Even then the amount of compensation is defined in legally accepted texts.
This stress can not be directly attributed to the defendants, it can’t be proven to exist and it has no standing as an accepted injury for which compensation is payable.
English law does permit exemplary damages in cases of high handed or arbitrary conduct by state bodies. I am not saying that this is or is not such a case. I am simply pointing out that there does exist a species of punitive damages in English law. In some contexts, aggravated damages can be awarded (as for example where a newspaper deliberately libels someone, calculating that it will make more profit from the story than it has to pay in compensation), but such damages are quite a rare thing.
Damages for causing stress are rare, but not unknown. They are sometimes awarded in employment cases where an employer has exposed an employee to unreasonable stress, and there are also (rare) cases involving various forms of psychiatric injury caused to non employees by negligence.
I have emailed Chilistrucker with some ideas, but he is right to be cautious and realistic in his approach, and others are right to say that expectations should be kept modest.
Damages for causing stress are rare, but not unknown. They are sometimes awarded in employment cases where an employer has exposed an employee to unreasonable stress, and there are also (rare) cases involving various forms of psychiatric injury caused to non employees by negligence.
I have emailed Chilistrucker with some ideas, but he is right to be cautious and realistic in his approach, and others are right to say that expectations should be kept modest.
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 25th February 17:55
A guide to what can be awarded is in the official Juducial Studies Board Guide to Compensation(which I cant find online ATM as my net is really slow)
To get the full amount you may need proper medical evidence, maybe wait & see what the offer is,then get a decent lawyer,not a NWNF shark,involved f need be,Im sure the legal types can recommend one if need be
To get the full amount you may need proper medical evidence, maybe wait & see what the offer is,then get a decent lawyer,not a NWNF shark,involved f need be,Im sure the legal types can recommend one if need be
chilistrucker said:
... They nigh on ruined us and should be accountable for it to some satisfactory level. To be honest i’d quite like my day in court to stand up if need be and tell them exactly what they put us through and just how far it pushed us, both emotionally and mentally. I have told them time and time again I would be happy to undergo any psychological analysis they feel necessary.
I explained to them in the claim that had they invited me down to Swansea to discuss these matters I would have had to refuse. Still to this day if you put me in a room with those responsible it would not end well, I would only be leaving that room in handcuffs.
... The faceless fking clowns down there should be held accountable for ALL the lives they have ruined whilst the DVLA/DMG continued to fail st almost every single level.
I explained to them in the claim that had they invited me down to Swansea to discuss these matters I would have had to refuse. Still to this day if you put me in a room with those responsible it would not end well, I would only be leaving that room in handcuffs.
... The faceless f
king clowns down there should be held accountable for ALL the lives they have ruined whilst the DVLA/DMG continued to fail st almost every single level.chilistrucker said:
Anything I may or may not be able to achieve is worth fighting for. Anything I can do to be a thorn in the sides of the DVLA/DMG is worth it in my opinion.
Just walking away would be no real achievement,
Whilst I understand that this has been hard for you, this type of emotive nonsense does you no favours. Just walking away would be no real achievement,
The DVLA isn't a living thing; it's a vast bureaucracy staffed in the main by lowly-paid junior civil servants. None of them ever go to work thinking how can I mess up Chilli's life; they do the best they can and generally do well for 'normal' routine stuff. Bureaucracies in general tend not to respond quite so well to unusual events that don't fit a check-list. By all means try and achieve your 'victory' by punishing them, but that's a road destined to add to your stress, not fix it.
Far better, surely, to focus on what's now important which is to secure a sensible payment which is fair to you and proportionate to the public purse from where it will come.
Don't take it personally, and good luck.
I guess that will be the fail in me.
I do indeed take it personally, (not from posters) from the DVLA/DMG.
It is hard not to, but
I am also trying to be a realist that’s why I appreciate the input from all,
regardless of if it’s what, (in my head) I want to hear or not.
As stated above, the best I can do is wait for the first full offer to come in and then take stock of what to do next, if anything.
If I do go down the legal route it would be with a recommended company, not the no win no fee route.
I do indeed take it personally, (not from posters) from the DVLA/DMG.
It is hard not to, but
I am also trying to be a realist that’s why I appreciate the input from all,
regardless of if it’s what, (in my head) I want to hear or not.
As stated above, the best I can do is wait for the first full offer to come in and then take stock of what to do next, if anything.
If I do go down the legal route it would be with a recommended company, not the no win no fee route.
Riley Blue said:
MitchT said:
Boosted LS1 said:
What the fk are you on about? Some history would help? Have I missed something? I need to sleep now.
I'm not the only one thinking this then!k are you on about? Some history would help? Have I missed something? I need to sleep now.It's like walking into a thread that's been running a couple of years already, but the last couple of years have disappeared!
The headline question is "what are my risks?". Evaluating litigation risk is difficult, and requires full knowledge of all relevant facts, but you would face a risk of having to pay both your own and a large chunk of the other side's costs if you litigated a claim and lost. Assessing how much those costs would be would again require detailed factual info (but at least nowadays there are court-moderated costs budgets in litigation, so you can have a clearer idea of your exposure than used to be the case).
There are the additional and unquantifiable factors of the hassle and stress involved in litigating anything, and these are not to be underestimated. I litigate for a living, but I rarely recommend litigation to anyone - even mega well resourced clients (luckily for me, some clients say "I hear what you say, but let's do it anyway").
There are the additional and unquantifiable factors of the hassle and stress involved in litigating anything, and these are not to be underestimated. I litigate for a living, but I rarely recommend litigation to anyone - even mega well resourced clients (luckily for me, some clients say "I hear what you say, but let's do it anyway").
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 26th February 08:28
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