Discussion
My son and his girlfriend want to move into her house which is currently rented, but the tenant is playing silly bugegers.
I believe they need to serve a section 21 notice then proceed to court for an eviction after two months ? (Monthly paid rent, initially a 12 month rental, but that's long since past and now just on a monthly renewal)
Thing is, it's done through a letting agent who doesn't seem interested in taking any action (there is a suspicion of a personal relationship)
Can they take any action against the letting agent? Does he have any responsibility as an agent to help remove the tenant ?
Any advice would be welcome.
Also local citizens advice bureau has refused to advise them as they say they won't make someone homeless, can they do this ?
I believe they need to serve a section 21 notice then proceed to court for an eviction after two months ? (Monthly paid rent, initially a 12 month rental, but that's long since past and now just on a monthly renewal)
Thing is, it's done through a letting agent who doesn't seem interested in taking any action (there is a suspicion of a personal relationship)
Can they take any action against the letting agent? Does he have any responsibility as an agent to help remove the tenant ?
Any advice would be welcome.
Also local citizens advice bureau has refused to advise them as they say they won't make someone homeless, can they do this ?
Honest answer.
CAB is not there for you family in this case, the only people they will help will be the tenants (do not forget that your family are the bad guys here because they must be loaded because landlord init?)
Best advice (from a Property Solicitor) is for them to make contact with a solicitor local to them who has plenty of experience in this field (or has access to it) and pay them to sort it out. It will not be cheap, it will not be as quick as your family would like it to be but it will happen in the end.
Any other option potentially leaves them in a messy situation that one wrong move could make them feel that they are back at square one.
Expect a bill iro £2.5k
CAB is not there for you family in this case, the only people they will help will be the tenants (do not forget that your family are the bad guys here because they must be loaded because landlord init?)
Best advice (from a Property Solicitor) is for them to make contact with a solicitor local to them who has plenty of experience in this field (or has access to it) and pay them to sort it out. It will not be cheap, it will not be as quick as your family would like it to be but it will happen in the end.
Any other option potentially leaves them in a messy situation that one wrong move could make them feel that they are back at square one.
Expect a bill iro £2.5k
Gary C said:
My son and his girlfriend want to move into her house which is currently rented, but the tenant is playing silly bugegers.
I believe they need to serve a section 21 notice then proceed to court for an eviction after two months ? (Monthly paid rent, initially a 12 month rental, but that's long since past and now just on a monthly renewal)
Thing is, it's done through a letting agent who doesn't seem interested in taking any action (there is a suspicion of a personal relationship)
Can they take any action against the letting agent? Does he have any responsibility as an agent to help remove the tenant ?
Any advice would be welcome.
Also local citizens advice bureau has refused to advise them as they say they won't make someone homeless, can they do this ?
Start from the perspective of what the lease says and what services the argent is appointed to do, the tenant isn't playing silly buggers they are simply following the procedures as outlined in the agreement they have with your sons girlfriends rental property. I believe they need to serve a section 21 notice then proceed to court for an eviction after two months ? (Monthly paid rent, initially a 12 month rental, but that's long since past and now just on a monthly renewal)
Thing is, it's done through a letting agent who doesn't seem interested in taking any action (there is a suspicion of a personal relationship)
Can they take any action against the letting agent? Does he have any responsibility as an agent to help remove the tenant ?
Any advice would be welcome.
Also local citizens advice bureau has refused to advise them as they say they won't make someone homeless, can they do this ?
It is the tenants home and they have rights.
It does seem loaded towards tenants.
Just suprised the cab don't give impartial advice as I thought they were there to help anyone, oh well.
We think the letting agent is actually advising the tenant on how to stay, but at least they are still paying rent.
Would it be worth issuing the standard section 21 notice, I believe that can be done with a standard (downloaded) letter and it's needed before any legal proceedings.
They are getting married May next year and want their own home, and this property was left to his fiancée a few years ago. Originally wanted to sell and the tenant said they would buy it for their father, but started to lie about things and obviously was never serious.
Lots of stress to come I think.
Just suprised the cab don't give impartial advice as I thought they were there to help anyone, oh well.
We think the letting agent is actually advising the tenant on how to stay, but at least they are still paying rent.
Would it be worth issuing the standard section 21 notice, I believe that can be done with a standard (downloaded) letter and it's needed before any legal proceedings.
They are getting married May next year and want their own home, and this property was left to his fiancée a few years ago. Originally wanted to sell and the tenant said they would buy it for their father, but started to lie about things and obviously was never serious.
Lots of stress to come I think.
Gary C said:
My son and his girlfriend want to move into her house which is currently rented, but the tenant is playing silly bugegers.
I believe they need to serve a section 21 notice then proceed to court for an eviction after two months ? (Monthly paid rent, initially a 12 month rental, but that's long since past and now just on a monthly renewal)
Given that they're not particularly familiar with the basics of running their business, are they absolutely squeeky-clean on the legals? Deposit protected, protection paperwork served in time, gas safety certs, etc etc?I believe they need to serve a section 21 notice then proceed to court for an eviction after two months ? (Monthly paid rent, initially a 12 month rental, but that's long since past and now just on a monthly renewal)
If so, then, yep - s21. If it's a recent tenancy, they must use form 6a. Even if they don't need to, use it anyway. Once that expires - two full rent periods, not simply calendar months - then start possession proceedings.
If not, then the s21 would be invalid, and the possession claim would be thrown out.
https://www.gov.uk/evicting-tenants/section-21-and...
Gary C said:
Thing is, it's done through a letting agent who doesn't seem interested in taking any action (there is a suspicion of a personal relationship)
Can they take any action against the letting agent? Does he have any responsibility as an agent to help remove the tenant ?
The agent would be acting on their behalf anyway. If he's not helping, then perhaps they should simply fire him as agent.Can they take any action against the letting agent? Does he have any responsibility as an agent to help remove the tenant ?
Gary C said:
Also local citizens advice bureau has refused to advise them as they say they won't make someone homeless, can they do this ?
CAB aren't there to help amateurs run their businesses.The Surveyor said:
Start from the perspective of what the lease says and what services the argent is appointed to do, the tenant isn't playing silly buggers they are simply following the procedures as outlined in the agreement they have with your sons girlfriends rental property.
It is the tenants home and they have rights.
The silly buggers was in regard to wanting to buy, then lying about several things, Ie actual silly buggers rather than just the wanting to stay in the house.It is the tenants home and they have rights.
Yes, she has rights, but so does the owner of the house and ultimately, we will have the bailiffs forceably remove her from the house. Not nice and would like to avoid it.
But I think, yes, it's solicitor time.
TooMany2cvs said:
Gary C said:
My son and his girlfriend want to move into her house which is currently rented, but the tenant is playing silly bugegers.
I believe they need to serve a section 21 notice then proceed to court for an eviction after two months ? (Monthly paid rent, initially a 12 month rental, but that's long since past and now just on a monthly renewal)
Given that they're not particularly familiar with the basics of running their business, are they absolutely squeeky-clean on the legals? Deposit protected, protection paperwork served in time, gas safety certs, etc etc?I believe they need to serve a section 21 notice then proceed to court for an eviction after two months ? (Monthly paid rent, initially a 12 month rental, but that's long since past and now just on a monthly renewal)
If so, then, yep - s21. If it's a recent tenancy, they must use form 6a. Even if they don't need to, use it anyway. Once that expires - two full rent periods, not simply calendar months - then start possession proceedings.
If not, then the s21 would be invalid, and the possession claim would be thrown out.
https://www.gov.uk/evicting-tenants/section-21-and...
Gary C said:
Thing is, it's done through a letting agent who doesn't seem interested in taking any action (there is a suspicion of a personal relationship)
Can they take any action against the letting agent? Does he have any responsibility as an agent to help remove the tenant ?
The agent would be acting on their behalf anyway. If he's not helping, then perhaps they should simply fire him as agent.Can they take any action against the letting agent? Does he have any responsibility as an agent to help remove the tenant ?
Gary C said:
Also local citizens advice bureau has refused to advise them as they say they won't make someone homeless, can they do this ?
CAB aren't there to help amateurs run their businesses.They have the gas certificate, the property is licenced under the Darwin council scheme, not sure about the deposit, it's got to be safe in an approved manner ?, will check.
Your right of course about business, no matter it was a house left to her and rented to provide a small income, but I really feel for them.
Need to read the letting agents agreement, but wouldn't they have some responsibility to ensure all letting requirements are met ? Not sure if it's a managed letting agreement or just introducing tenants.
Want to help them as much as I can, but don't want to do anything illegal. Imagine, put everything in writing and don't enter into any attempt to persuade her to leave (Ie like pointing out her chance of a reference is shot).
Gary C said:
They are citizens, but they aren't allowed advice ?
CAB aren't some kind of statutory body. They're just a national umbrella charity, running on a shoestring. There are plenty of landlord associations who would be much better placed to help them, if they paid to join.Gary C said:
Need to read the letting agents agreement, but wouldn't they have some responsibility to ensure all letting requirements are met ?
They are just acting on the landlord's behalf. All the legals come back to the LL's responsibility. The agent's contract might be being breached if they fail, but that doesn't affect unmet requirements being the LL's problem alone.Edited by TooMany2cvs on Tuesday 13th March 18:21
Nothing stops the girlfriend serving a Section 21 Notice.
A Section 21 Notice is simply advising the tenant/s that the landlord, agent requires possession of the rental property, with only a court being able to grant repossession of the rental property. Through 30+ years of being a landlord, only a very few percentage of Notices I have served, eventually end up before the courts, with the majority of tenants simply vacating the rental property.
If the tenancy is a statutory periodic tenancy, then a Section 21 Notice form 6A needs to be used. There are certain criteria that needs to be adhered to, for the Section 21 Notice to be deemed valid.
If a tenancy deposit has been taken in security of the tenancy, then the same must have been registered with a Tenancy Deposit Scheme, with the tenant having received a certificate confirming the same, together with the prescribed information provided to the tenant within 30 days of the commencement of the tenancy.
A Section 21 Notice will also be deemed invalid, if the landlord, agent has failed to provide the tenant with an Energy Performance Certificate (EPC), a current Annual Gas Safety Certificate or a How To Rent Guide. To avoid any arguments, doubts, when serving a section 21 Notice I attach copies of all of these documents.
Serving Notice should either be via recorded mail, or in person with copy submitted via electronic mail.
A large percentage of repossession hearings before the courts are being thrown out by the court, not only in default of the above, but mainly due to the Section 21 Notice being completed incorrectly, incorrect dates etc.
An example of a landlord/agent completing a Section 21 Notice, Fixed term tenancy starting on , 20th January 2017, length of tenancy 12 months, Date landlord/agent serves Section 21 Notice 2 Months being BEFORE 19th March 2018, Date of expiry of Notice being 19th May 2018.
A Section 21 Notice is simply advising the tenant/s that the landlord, agent requires possession of the rental property, with only a court being able to grant repossession of the rental property. Through 30+ years of being a landlord, only a very few percentage of Notices I have served, eventually end up before the courts, with the majority of tenants simply vacating the rental property.
If the tenancy is a statutory periodic tenancy, then a Section 21 Notice form 6A needs to be used. There are certain criteria that needs to be adhered to, for the Section 21 Notice to be deemed valid.
If a tenancy deposit has been taken in security of the tenancy, then the same must have been registered with a Tenancy Deposit Scheme, with the tenant having received a certificate confirming the same, together with the prescribed information provided to the tenant within 30 days of the commencement of the tenancy.
A Section 21 Notice will also be deemed invalid, if the landlord, agent has failed to provide the tenant with an Energy Performance Certificate (EPC), a current Annual Gas Safety Certificate or a How To Rent Guide. To avoid any arguments, doubts, when serving a section 21 Notice I attach copies of all of these documents.
Serving Notice should either be via recorded mail, or in person with copy submitted via electronic mail.
A large percentage of repossession hearings before the courts are being thrown out by the court, not only in default of the above, but mainly due to the Section 21 Notice being completed incorrectly, incorrect dates etc.
An example of a landlord/agent completing a Section 21 Notice, Fixed term tenancy starting on , 20th January 2017, length of tenancy 12 months, Date landlord/agent serves Section 21 Notice 2 Months being BEFORE 19th March 2018, Date of expiry of Notice being 19th May 2018.
Wings said:
Through 30+ years of being a landlord, only a very few percentage of Notices I have served, eventually end up before the courts, with the majority of tenants simply vacating the rental property.
Whats your experience with HB claimants? Councils actively tell them to wait to be evictedHas she spoken to the tenant directly? A rubbish agent can lead to all manner of Chinese whispers.
If the tenant is in the all landlords are wealthy arse holes who must be punished camp then appealing to them as a young couple about to get married might help shift them.
If the tenants are not in that camp, bunging them some cash seems to be the most cost effective way to get them out. Why spend £2.5k on a solicitor when £1.5k direct to the tenant would get them out.
If the tenant is in the all landlords are wealthy arse holes who must be punished camp then appealing to them as a young couple about to get married might help shift them.
If the tenants are not in that camp, bunging them some cash seems to be the most cost effective way to get them out. Why spend £2.5k on a solicitor when £1.5k direct to the tenant would get them out.
If you Google "Eviction Services" you can just pay someone to do it all for you, and they will guarantee to fill out all the paperwork correctly, I believe.
It's the simplest way to get it all done, albeit at a slightly higher cost than doing it yourself, but at least you know the right things have been done at the right time, so if it comes to court they will have no choice then to grant you possession.
It's the simplest way to get it all done, albeit at a slightly higher cost than doing it yourself, but at least you know the right things have been done at the right time, so if it comes to court they will have no choice then to grant you possession.
Sir Bagalot said:
Whats your experience with HB claimants? Councils actively tell them to wait to be evicted
The Homeless Reduction Bill that has recently had royal Assent, those people facing homelessness will be entitled to call on their local councils for advice to help prevent homelessness. Councils will also be required to treat people as homeless and offer them alternative accommodation at a much earlier stage.Whilst the Bill is intended to help the homeless and tenants facing evictions, it will also very much assist Landlords in reducing the number of tenants who are advised by local authorities to remain in rented properties until the bailiff evicts them.
My experiences are that local council's housing departments, are no longer advising tenant/s facing eviction to remain in the rental property.
Thanks to everyone for taking time to reply.
I have seen a service that issues the s21 for ~£90 then represents in court if necessary for £400 plus court fees.
Seems reasonable if it works.
However, I think the advice to see if they have actually sat down with her is the first call, see if we can work it out, and fir the letting agent !
I have seen a service that issues the s21 for ~£90 then represents in court if necessary for £400 plus court fees.
Seems reasonable if it works.
However, I think the advice to see if they have actually sat down with her is the first call, see if we can work it out, and fir the letting agent !
Gary C said:
My son and his girlfriend want to move into her house which is currently rented, but the tenant is playing silly bugegers.
I believe they need to serve a section 21 notice then proceed to court for an eviction after two months ? (Monthly paid rent, initially a 12 month rental, but that's long since past and now just on a monthly renewal)
Thing is, it's done through a letting agent who doesn't seem interested in taking any action (there is a suspicion of a personal relationship)
Can they take any action against the letting agent? Does he have any responsibility as an agent to help remove the tenant ?
Any advice would be welcome.
Also local citizens advice bureau has refused to advise them as they say they won't make someone homeless, can they do this ?
The tenant has rights too, if they are paying, if the tenancy agreement is in good order why be a mean landlord. Give them notice that the tenancy will come to an end at the allotted time, let your son and girlfriend live with you in the meantime and tell them not to be such ****** to the tenants.I believe they need to serve a section 21 notice then proceed to court for an eviction after two months ? (Monthly paid rent, initially a 12 month rental, but that's long since past and now just on a monthly renewal)
Thing is, it's done through a letting agent who doesn't seem interested in taking any action (there is a suspicion of a personal relationship)
Can they take any action against the letting agent? Does he have any responsibility as an agent to help remove the tenant ?
Any advice would be welcome.
Also local citizens advice bureau has refused to advise them as they say they won't make someone homeless, can they do this ?
It's bad enough living in rented accomadation at the whim of a landlord, it's worse when they are ******s.
LarsG said:
Gary C said:
My son and his girlfriend want to move into her house which is currently rented, but the tenant is playing silly bugegers.
I believe they need to serve a section 21 notice then proceed to court for an eviction after two months ? (Monthly paid rent, initially a 12 month rental, but that's long since past and now just on a monthly renewal)
Thing is, it's done through a letting agent who doesn't seem interested in taking any action (there is a suspicion of a personal relationship)
Can they take any action against the letting agent? Does he have any responsibility as an agent to help remove the tenant ?
Any advice would be welcome.
Also local citizens advice bureau has refused to advise them as they say they won't make someone homeless, can they do this ?
The tenant has rights too, if they are paying, if the tenancy agreement is in good order why be a mean landlord. Give them notice that the tenancy will come to an end at the allotted time, let your son and girlfriend live with you in the meantime and tell them not to be such ****** to the tenants.I believe they need to serve a section 21 notice then proceed to court for an eviction after two months ? (Monthly paid rent, initially a 12 month rental, but that's long since past and now just on a monthly renewal)
Thing is, it's done through a letting agent who doesn't seem interested in taking any action (there is a suspicion of a personal relationship)
Can they take any action against the letting agent? Does he have any responsibility as an agent to help remove the tenant ?
Any advice would be welcome.
Also local citizens advice bureau has refused to advise them as they say they won't make someone homeless, can they do this ?
It's bad enough living in rented accomadation at the whim of a landlord, it's worse when they are ******s.
It has been stated that the year tenancy agreement has long passed, I don't think somebody wanting to live in their own home when they get married is a whim, nor are they being *******s (whatever that is)..
The court process can be costly and time consuming.
Sounds like the agent isnt great and is not motivated as they are losing her business.
Has the gf served a notice to quit giving the tenant two months to leave? Assuming theya re clear of the 12 month assured period. They are normally 6 months with a break clause and a further 6 months.
The 12 months up front payment is concerning as that normally happens when the tenant may have issues paying rent so they pay upfront.
If you can agree something with the tenant once a section 21 is in place, even if that is longer than two months it could be to your benefit as its can take 3- 6 months to evict.
I would be interested to know if she owns the property outright or whether its morgaged as she is now going from buy to let to residential.
Sounds like the agent isnt great and is not motivated as they are losing her business.
Has the gf served a notice to quit giving the tenant two months to leave? Assuming theya re clear of the 12 month assured period. They are normally 6 months with a break clause and a further 6 months.
The 12 months up front payment is concerning as that normally happens when the tenant may have issues paying rent so they pay upfront.
If you can agree something with the tenant once a section 21 is in place, even if that is longer than two months it could be to your benefit as its can take 3- 6 months to evict.
I would be interested to know if she owns the property outright or whether its morgaged as she is now going from buy to let to residential.
Definitely try and have a civilised conversation with the tenants, taking into account their personal circumstances. It may well be the case that an event in their lives would make it difficult for them to move and that by being amenable to them they might be happy to vacate in say 3 months or 4 months (hypothetical of course). At this stage it is still positive that they are paying rent, so bear that in mind as many tenants would simply stop paying and await eviction.
As a former estate agent, the EA's are supposed to look after the best interest of their client (in this case the landlord, as you pay their fee). In this instance they do not appear to be doing their job. One question that hasn't been asked is how the estate agent takes their fee? Some agents take their fee in full at the start of the tenancy, others take it as a percentage every month. If the latter I believe you have come up against a simple case of the estate agent looking after their own interests. Any competent agent will have their own S21 notice they can use, and most agents would help with this.
As others have said, make sure everything is legal- absolutely verify the deposit is protected as the penalties for non-compliance are fairly severe. And assuming all of your obligations as landlords have been met then proceed with S21 notice and if no progress then go down the legal route, either through a specialist or a solicitor etc. Pay exceptional attention to the details of the notice, ensuring all spellings of names, titles, dates, etc etc are absolutely 100% perfect. Retain proof of delivery, make sure it is signed for or at least recorded delivery. I have known cases being thrown out of court for miniscule details being incorrect and you're then back to square one with serving notice delaying the whole process again by at least another 2 months.
Good luck with it all and remember your tenants are human! A little mutual respect goes a long way and if you get solicitors involved too early it will get unpleasant for everyone involved rather quickly.
As a former estate agent, the EA's are supposed to look after the best interest of their client (in this case the landlord, as you pay their fee). In this instance they do not appear to be doing their job. One question that hasn't been asked is how the estate agent takes their fee? Some agents take their fee in full at the start of the tenancy, others take it as a percentage every month. If the latter I believe you have come up against a simple case of the estate agent looking after their own interests. Any competent agent will have their own S21 notice they can use, and most agents would help with this.
As others have said, make sure everything is legal- absolutely verify the deposit is protected as the penalties for non-compliance are fairly severe. And assuming all of your obligations as landlords have been met then proceed with S21 notice and if no progress then go down the legal route, either through a specialist or a solicitor etc. Pay exceptional attention to the details of the notice, ensuring all spellings of names, titles, dates, etc etc are absolutely 100% perfect. Retain proof of delivery, make sure it is signed for or at least recorded delivery. I have known cases being thrown out of court for miniscule details being incorrect and you're then back to square one with serving notice delaying the whole process again by at least another 2 months.
Good luck with it all and remember your tenants are human! A little mutual respect goes a long way and if you get solicitors involved too early it will get unpleasant for everyone involved rather quickly.
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