Bad driving on M25
Discussion
Mr10secs said:
Lets watch clip 2 again! the fiesta when contact is made is NOT in front of the camera car as the camera car contacts his rear wing/side of bumper and almost performs a PIT manoeuvre on the fiesta as you can see it starts to almost spin out.I would say he then braked which is why the fiesta did not spin out
My bad - wrong link for the second vid.Should be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6kSseT07xo
Yes, it's hard to tell exactly when contact is actually made - somewhere around 0.11 and 0.13 - but you have to admit that the camera car is closing on both Fiesta and the car in front in L4 at that time, yes...? At 0.09, the Fiesta is clearly ahead of the camera car.
I suspect the actual impact is pretty much corner-to-corner, given that the Fiesta is really not very much further ahead of the camera car when he is clearly in line rather than alongside.
If that's the biggest flaw you can find in my commentary of the timelines of those videos, I think we can agree they're fairly accurate, yes?
cmaguire said:
You appear to think pulling across in front of another vehicle at 60mph odd when you've barely cleared them in an adjacent lane and it is also pissing down is fair game
No, of course I don't - I've said all along that both Fiesta drivers are utter wuckfits - let me repeat that with absolute clarity: Four complete and utter bellends are shown in those videos. The second Fiesta doesn't even have the excuse of simply not having looked.cmaguire said:
and it is entirely up to the other driver to accommodate your idiocy.
No, not entirely. But you appear to be suggesting that there is no onus AT ALL on them to avoid impact - and that by actively causing conflict, they're merely asserting their right to THEIR BIT OF SPACE.Edited by TooMany2cvs on Monday 2nd April 16:42
TooMany2cvs said:
No, not entirely. But you appear to be suggesting that there is no onus AT ALL on them to avoid impact - and that by actively causing conflict, they're merely asserting their right to THEIR BIT OF SPACE.
BS, I have made no comment regarding the behaviour of the camera car at all. I didn't need to, Whether he could have avoided contact is secondary, there was no contact to be avoided without the Fiesta driver's idiotic move.Edited by TooMany2cvs on Monday 2nd April 16:41
TooMany2cvs said:
No, not entirely. But you appear to be suggesting that there is no onus AT ALL on them to avoid impact - and that by actively causing conflict, they're merely asserting their right to THEIR BIT OF SPACE.
TBF it does to me look like the camera closes a little but not being there I cant say for sure, the worrying thing is the guy in the fiesta does not believe he has either had 2 near misses or even made contact with another car! He then when allowed to go pulled out straight in front of a lorry forcing it to swerve. The guy in the camera car said the attending police were far more concerned about his son filming them than any incident, once again saying it was not allowed.Edited by TooMany2cvs on Monday 2nd April 16:42
Edited by Mr10secs on Monday 2nd April 16:51
Edited by Mr10secs on Monday 2nd April 17:00
cmaguire said:
The Dangerous Elk said:
Mr10secs said:
Actually yes, a vague acquaintance who is part of another forum that we all regularly meet up and go road trips to Europe etc, and yes why would I not believe him.
then tell him he is a dangerous twonk and should learn from this result because (mostly) it was HIS fault due to HIS aggressive s
t driving ?The fact so many here seem to think otherwise perhaps goes some way to explaining why I see so much incompetent driving on a regular basis.
If the Ford had seen and was forcing in, the silver car could have removed himself from the situation anyway, as said, Ford=Dangerous or DWDC and silver car=Dangerous.
cmaguire said:
BS, I have made no comment regarding the behaviour of the camera car at all. I didn't need to, Whether he could have avoided contact is secondary, there was no contact to be avoided without the Fiesta driver's idiotic move.
Such bks is hard to fathomEdited by The Dangerous Elk on Monday 2nd April 17:03
Mr10secs said:
The Dangerous Elk said:
Such bks is hard to fathom
The ford did not hit the silver car, it hit the camera car, same ford 2 different incidentsks is hard to fathomEdited by The Dangerous Elk on Monday 2nd April 17:03
1st, forcing in or not looking correctly, the Silver car could have withdrawn and did not.
2nd, as above just the cam car was not as "lucky" as he pushed it a little bit more.
These THREE total d
heads could have caused damage to others had they spun-out...stop being so fking competitive ffs.Well I don’t have any axe to grind on here but I do 40,000 miles of motorway driving a year and the camera car man should have hit the brake a tad, well, well before the other car even got into the lane. He should have seen him indicate and let him move over.
The guy in the fiesta was no angel, I would prosecute both and if I were on the jury both would be guilty. Two wrongs do not make a right and nobody was entitled to risk a serious collision and risk people’s lives in such idiotic fashion.
They were both lucky the police used discretion. If they had been speeding both would have been done for it.
A careful and competent driver certainly cannot support the actions of the camera car.
The guy in the fiesta was no angel, I would prosecute both and if I were on the jury both would be guilty. Two wrongs do not make a right and nobody was entitled to risk a serious collision and risk people’s lives in such idiotic fashion.
They were both lucky the police used discretion. If they had been speeding both would have been done for it.
A careful and competent driver certainly cannot support the actions of the camera car.
vonhosen said:
monthefish said:
untakenname said:
I don't see the dcw doing anything wrong tbh, they are in their lane leaving the correct distance for the conditions in the m25, if you left the anymore gap you would just get idiots constantly trying to push in like the one in the clip..
^^ This.(Can't believe so many are disagreeing - probably just the usual PH thing of disagreeing with the OP regardless of the subject I suppose. Weird phenomenon)
It's not a case of 'stopping others from getting one up on you'. It's basic defensive driving (or it should have been - to 99.9% of people it would have been clear there was no gap to move into, and I'm still incredulous that the car in L2 tried to move across despite this fact).
Would he have attempted that move on a marked police car? No chance.
If the car in L2 had been driving along ahead of the camera car, signalled and pulled into a sensible gap then there would have been no incident.
He did none of those things. He undertook and then attempted to force his way in to a gap that wasn't there in the dry, in those conditions, trying to fit into that gap was suicidal.
TooMany2cvs said:
Would you care to do so? And on the Skoda in the first clip?
The Fiesta did exactly the same thing twice, on both occasions he began changing lanes before he had even cleared the Skoda or the camera car, hence the Skoda moving sideways to avoid him in the first clip.The Skoda was following the car in front too close, but so what, that just makes the Fiesta's manoeuver even more stupid. The Skoda had to drop back to even make it possible for the Fiesta to get in front of him.
In the second clip the Fiesta was slightly further ahead. It would appear that the camera car may have been disinclined to make way for more idiocy from the Fiesta having seen the first installment, and underestimated quite how idiotic the Fiesta driver is. There is a fine line between a repeat of the Skoda incident or what happened with the camera car, both over in a few seconds, and with the reactions of both the Skoda and the camera car probably influenced to some degree by the incredulity of the situation.
Skoda, entirely innocent.
Camera car, possibly contributary if he did close the gap, and with hindsight possibly naive for not backing off as soon as he knew it was the same idiot.
Mr10secs said:
OK guys camera car has joined the forum but cannot post for 14 days, im going to log out and let him post under my name to put his point because he and everyone on our forum is pretty dumbfounded. Ill let you know when its me posting again.
a) I think we will be bored by then. b) I think this thread is a spoof
c) this all re-inforces my view that everyone should have a re-test every 3 or 5 years (especially those that can see a ‘coming together’ and just continue because ‘this is my lane’)
monthefish said:
vonhosen said:
monthefish said:
untakenname said:
I don't see the dcw doing anything wrong tbh, they are in their lane leaving the correct distance for the conditions in the m25, if you left the anymore gap you would just get idiots constantly trying to push in like the one in the clip..
^^ This.(Can't believe so many are disagreeing - probably just the usual PH thing of disagreeing with the OP regardless of the subject I suppose. Weird phenomenon)
It's not a case of 'stopping others from getting one up on you'. It's basic defensive driving (or it should have been - to 99.9% of people it would have been clear there was no gap to move into, and I'm still incredulous that the car in L2 tried to move across despite this fact).
Would he have attempted that move on a marked police car? No chance.
If the car in L2 had been driving along ahead of the camera car, signalled and pulled into a sensible gap then there would have been no incident.
He did none of those things. He undertook and then attempted to force his way in to a gap that wasn't there in the dry, in those conditions, trying to fit into that gap was suicidal.
The point is could/should the camera car have still avoided a collision/behaved differently to what he did?
The answer to that is Yes.
The expectation is that we avoid collisions it's possible to avoid., however stupid the behaviour of others.
In that incident if only one of them did what they should, it's collision avoided. It took both of them to misbehave for it to happen as it did.
The Fiesta is guilty/liable for his own poor driving & the camera driver is for his own too.
If the camera car had done what he should have done, then there'd only be the poor driving by the Fiesta on video, but he didn't so the video shows poor driving by both. The camera driver is still responsible for his own choices in the face of the actions from the Fiesta driver. He had choices & chose poorly.
Poor driving by another doesn't excuse poor driving by you, you've got to rise above it, not get dragged to it by an emotional response.
Edited by vonhosen on Monday 2nd April 21:25
BugLebowski said:
There are literally no vehicles leaving enough distance from the vehicle in front in either clip. Such a depressing st show of idiots.
Agree with every word of that. I've done a fair few miles in torrential rain this weekend, and nobody seems to give two hoots about leaving a gap sufficient to actually stop in. The number of people who will move out into a safe gap and create two unsafe gaps is crazy.t show of idiots.
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