Driving high on coke runs over teen

[silverfoxcc]

The article says

Flaherty, of Knutsford, was within the speed limit and stopped at the scene, but was found to have a small amount of cocaine in his system.

He was sentenced on Monday after pleading guilty to causing death by careless driving while over the prescribed drugs limit and driving under the influence of drugs.

Just wondering, if he was not drunk or drugged, would he still have been done for causing death by careless driving?

[Gameface]

TooMany2cvs said:

<double-checks> Nope, I didn't mention whether that 5ft+ was with the direction of traffic, perpendicular to it, or at some other angle.

A 5ft+ long bag is 5ft+ long whether you're looking at the side, the end, or an angle.

You obviously said 5' because that was roughly the girls height and you thought she was lengthways across a lane. You said this to further your crusade against the driver. Now I've told you otherwise you are simply obfuscating.

As for your second paragraph... If you really think that, I've nothing else to say to you and you're welcome to the last word. I won't respond.

God forbid you ever do jury duty.

[TooMany2cvs]

Gameface said:

You obviously said 5' because that was roughly the girls height

I'm assuming she was a fairly average-height adult, yes, hence "5ft+".

Gameface said:

and you thought she was lengthways across a lane. You said this to further your crusade against the driver. Now I've told you otherwise you are simply obfuscating.

"Crusade"? "Obfuscating"? Nope, neither of those. Well, not from me...

Do you know for a fact how she was orientated? Or are you assuming, too? The MEN article makes no mention, other than she had head and chest injuries and parts of her jacket were found on his car wheels. It seems fairly clear to me that she was probably neither absolutely straight across nor absolutely straight along, but probably in some kind of sprawl. But maybe you know better.

Either way, there was still 5ft+ of object in the road...

[tuneltek]

my 21 yr old apprentice was killed in pretty much carbon copy of this accident.
new years eve ...around 1am he decided to lay down in the road in the village square, a friend of mine coming home from a family do in the next town thought a bin bag was on the road . ran right over his head which "popped"...he stopped picked him up and drove him to the hospital 4km away ,he was dead by the time they arrived.
The driver was sober , no drugs and had his parents and daughter in the car and was only travelling around 15mph..an accident ,,these things happen

[Gameface]

You're lying. 2CV's says it isn't possible, you see.

Case closed.

[Gavia]

A former neighbour of mine was killed in more or less the same way, coincidentally exactly 10years ago today.

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/4157523....

The taxi driver that ran him over received effectively no penalty despite the driving part of the overall circumstances being arguably worse in this case, than the OP’s

[Starfighter]

What is the prescribed limit for Charlie?

[Gameface]

Gavia said:

A former neighbour of mine was killed in more or less the same way, coincidentally exactly 10years ago today.

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/4157523....

The taxi driver that ran him over received effectively no penalty despite the driving part of the overall circumstances being arguably worse in this case, than the OP’s

Fake news.

2CV's has debunked this.

[Gameface]

Starfighter said:

What is the prescribed limit for Charlie?

https://ashworthmotoringlaw.co.uk/2016/08/22/what-is-the-cocaine-drug-driving-limit/

[Gavia]

Gameface said:

Gavia said:

A former neighbour of mine was killed in more or less the same way, coincidentally exactly 10years ago today.

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/4157523....

The taxi driver that ran him over received effectively no penalty despite the driving part of the overall circumstances being arguably worse in this case, than the OP’s

Fake news.

2CV's has debunked this.

I wish it was. Pete was a seriously flawed individual who went down the wrong road after our paths separated, but he was such a top laugh.

The idea that you won’t see a person lying on the street at lower speeds is very flawed

[Gameface]

I didn't mean to trivialise your friends death.

I'm happy to trivialise 2CV's judge, jury and executioner routine though.

[Loyly]

He was on drugs, so no sympathy. However, it does read as though the teenager was the architect of her own demise.

[DaveE36]

What isn't clear is whether he had a sniff only a few hours before or 24 hours before. If only a few hours he's an idiot. If a full 24 hours then I don't see how that would affect his judgement? It could be a simple as having trace elements in his nose but happy to be corrected.

The sentence in Spain certainly hasn't helped him but chances are he's went off the rails a bit after what happened. Everyone has a vice.

[snobetter]

silverfoxcc said:

The article says

Flaherty, of Knutsford, was within the speed limit and stopped at the scene, but was found to have a small amount of cocaine in his system.

He was sentenced on Monday after pleading guilty to causing death by careless driving while over the prescribed drugs limit and driving under the influence of drugs.

Just wondering, if he was not drunk or drugged, would he still have been done for causing death by careless driving?

Plenty of people are charged with this without being on drugs or drink. Each case is taken on it's merit though. Generally speaking though the driver is expected to avoid driving over people whatever the reason they're in the road.

[TooMany2cvs]

snobetter said:

Generally speaking though the driver is expected to avoid driving over people whatever the reason they're in the road.

Don't be so ridiculous. Drivers can't possibly be expected to see something the size of a person (whatever the angle) in the road at 30mph under streetlights.

[C70R]

article said:

was found to have a small amount of cocaine in his system

Classic sensationalism in the thread title.
This isn't the same as being "high on coke". The effects of cocaine are very short-lived (a few hrs at most), but the way it is metabolised means that the byproducts can stay in the bloodstream for days after the event (which I believe is what is tested for, rather than cocaine itself).

No sympathy for the guy - and his other conviction add some weight to his 'character'. But I hate the way that drugs are represented in gutter media.
More tragically, how did a 19 year-old girl come to be lying, drunk, alone, in the middle of the road?

[anonymous-user]

TooMany2cvs said:

snobetter said:

Generally speaking though the driver is expected to avoid driving over people whatever the reason they're in the road.

Don't be so ridiculous. Drivers can't possibly be expected to see something the size of a person (whatever the angle) in the road at 30mph under streetlights.

The article also says:

"And that the streetlights on Gatley Road were obscured by trees in places."

So she might have been in a shadowed area and thus much harder to see.

[theboss]

People are capable of doing all sorts of ridiculous things when drunk - I’ve certainly put my life in danger a few times but have thankfully been “saved” by friends. Apparently I once walked along the wall of a road bridge over an electrified main railway line when I was so stfaced I can’t even remember doing so. I vaguely remember “flagging down” a car in the middle of a vast roundabout at 4am - it turned out to be a police officer who thankfully saw that I got home safely rather than celled for the night. Another time I tried “going for a piss” by climbing out of a fifth storey hotel window but thankfully the mate I shared the room with woke up and stopped me. I’m overall a fairly sensible guy but given an absolute skinful have proven capable of being utterly moronic and unaware of real danger. The article said the girls friends supervised her getting home and thought she was safe, and that she turned down a later offer of assistance from a stranger in the street. Sadly she was responsible for her own demise.

I do actually feel sorry for the guy if he wasn’t truly “high” at the time. It would be rather like hitting and killing a suicidal pedestrian early one morning and then blowing just over the limit from a few beers the night before. A regrettable situation but I’m not convinced the presence of the drug (or my in hypothetical scenario a bit of residual alcohol) really contributed to the outcome.

[snobetter]

theboss said:

Sadly she was responsible for her own demise.

.

In your opinion, the law doesn't specify when it's ok to drive over people. Had someone collapsed from a medical condition are they fair game to? The driver standards fell below what is reasonably expected, they should have seen and avoided the person, if the street lights are obscured and affecting your vision, drive slower and complain to the council in the morning with nobody being killed.

I'm not sticking up for people to be able to get blind drunk and lie in the road, I'm sticking up for people who don't want to be killed by drivers who, because it's possible to drive while not paying much attention, do so as "usually" you'll get away with it. This was the 1 in a thousand time everything isn't as they expected it to be, and they get caught out.

[mac96]

snobetter said:

theboss said:

Sadly she was responsible for her own demise.

.

In your opinion, the law doesn't specify when it's ok to drive over people. Had someone collapsed from a medical condition are they fair game to? The driver standards fell below what is reasonably expected, they should have seen and avoided the person, if the street lights are obscured and affecting your vision, drive slower and complain to the council in the morning with nobody being killed.

I'm not sticking up for people to be able to get blind drunk and lie in the road, I'm sticking up for people who don't want to be killed by drivers who, because it's possible to drive while not paying much attention, do so as "usually" you'll get away with it. This was the 1 in a thousand time everything isn't as they expected it to be, and they get caught out.

She created the hazard, with no excuse for so doing. The fact that a driver might fail to avoid her was entirely predictable and does not to my mind make it their fault, if their driving was otherwise legal at the time.
If someone sails out from a side road into the path of a legally driven truck and are killed, it's their fault, irrespective of whether the truck driver might have avoided them had he made another choice of action. Seems similar to me.
Don't get me wrong, it's tragic and I feel very sorry for the poor girl. We have probably all done stupid things while drunk. It does not seem fair to blame other people for failing to save us from the consequences though.