Really dodgy wiring

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Discussion

mickyc79

Original Poster:

582 posts

107 months

Friday 13th July 2018
quotequote all
Just a quick question for any legal minds on here...

I bought a house about 4 years ago...just getting round to removing the old kitchen and we've come across some absolutely shocking wiring which wouldn't have been possible to see in a survey before buying.

Had an electrician out to quote for fixing and he was shocked at the downright dangerous and lethal nature of some of the wiring. He advised to take it further, but with who?

The seller was in the house for 16 years before us, so they would have had the kitchen installed. It could be that they didn't know what the kitchen fitter had done as all of the dangerous stuff could only be seen once the kitchen was removed.

I've got a feeling that i'm going to have to stump up for repairs and making good, but as none of this would have been visible or possible to see without ripping out kitchen then we couldn't possibly have picked up on it before we bought the house.

Who, if anyone, can i contact?

Many thanks

Durzel

12,232 posts

167 months

Friday 13th July 2018
quotequote all
Yes, you'll be stumping up to make good.

You've said you can't be sure the previous owner even knew about the wiring. Even if he/she did, I doubt very much they'll say they knew about it when it's clear you're looking for some kind of compensation. And you can't prove they knew.

It might even be the case that you can't even find out who did the kitchen. It could've been a mate of a mate of a mate of the previous owner. Even if it was a company - what do you imagine you could do about it? I'm not being snarky - trying to get a sense of your expectations given how far removed you are from the work that was done.

Unfortunately this is part of the rich tapestry of buying something - anything really - that has been previously owned.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Friday 13th July 2018
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mickyc79 said:
Who, if anyone, can i contact?
Nobody, in terms of getting anybody to chip in to sort it.

It may well be that the previous kitchen fitter didn't even do anything wrong, legally speaking - Part P building regs was introduced in 2005. Before then, any chimp could do wiring with no comeback. Do you even know who fitted it?

On a purely practical level, the wiring would all be redone and tested anyway as part of the new kitchen fit, so there's no extra cost to you, and nobody's been fried. So just shake your head at the incompetence of supposed professionals, and move on.

If you're worried about the shonkiness going further, then I bet the surveyor when you bought the place recommended getting an electrical check done - did you?

Alucidnation

16,810 posts

169 months

Friday 13th July 2018
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Any pics op?

paintman

7,669 posts

189 months

Friday 13th July 2018
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One of the pleasures of owning a house.
They usually don't come with any warranty & you don't have a landlord who you can get to do free repairs.
Time to dip into your own pocket.
Some of the stuff in ours that I've discovered over the years during alterations/extensions have been truly appalling.

mickyc79

Original Poster:

582 posts

107 months

Friday 13th July 2018
quotequote all
Just asking as electrician said I should take it further, but you are all right, no recourse avenue at all. The risk of buying a house I guess... Not to worry, kitchen Fitter will rectify all previous sins and make it all safe!

SteveR1979

599 posts

140 months

Friday 13th July 2018
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Buys a house
Finds something wrong after FOUR years
Wants someone else to pay for it

Hilarious.

Not a millennial are you by ANY chance??

triumphkryten

369 posts

162 months

Friday 13th July 2018
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I had a full survey done on my house when I bought it 17 years ago - needed some extra sockets in the living room so lifted the floorboards to put in the new wiring.

Found all sorts of scraps, rubber insulation which had dried out and cracked off, chocolate block connectors joining 3 lots of 2.5mm and not tightened fully so it overheated and melted the connector.

Any 1930s house will have hidden horrors, which if left unfound and untouched may or may not kill you....

dhutch

14,198 posts

196 months

Friday 13th July 2018
quotequote all
Basically as above.

My gut feeling is that the absolute most extreme outcome is getting the spark who did it, if you can prove who did it, a bit hot under the collar.

Fortunately however bad it is it's not killed anyone, and rewiring one room of a house isn't going to bankrupt anyone who can afford a new kitchen.

Sadly houses are basically just a bit case of 'sold as seen' really.


Daniel

Who me ?

7,455 posts

211 months

Friday 13th July 2018
quotequote all
triumphkryten said:
Any 1930s house will have hidden horrors, which if left unfound and untouched may or may not kill you....
Anything originally wired in the 30's and rewired even 20 years later might give you surprises. Mine, for example is estimated as 1925-1935 ,and last rewire date on fusebox quoted 1955. I ran wiring for a cordless from main BT socket to beside my chair for phone and for an extension lead, from nearest mains socket , and opening the floor beside the lounge door, I found two 2.5 T & E grey cables which traced back to door frame, and ended up in one of the double 13A sockets. I'd had problems with the screws in the door hinges pulling out and previously to this I'd contemplated using longer/ heavier screws.I'm glad I didn't.
This was about 15 years ago ,when my uncle was alive. He'd been a sparky since about the early thirties and I asked him when this practice was outlawed. From memory, he couldn't remember ,but put it at before the rewire date.

rallycross

12,742 posts

236 months

Saturday 14th July 2018
quotequote all
SteveR1979 said:
Buys a house
Finds something wrong after FOUR years
Wants someone else to pay for it

Hilarious.

Not a millennial are you by ANY chance??
Thats exactly what I was thinking! Why do people think there is someone somewhere to blame/frame/sue for damages, its pathetic.

jjwilde

1,904 posts

95 months

Saturday 14th July 2018
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I would also like to see photos of this.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Saturday 14th July 2018
quotequote all
Who me said:
triumphkryten said:
Any 1930s house will have hidden horrors, which if left unfound and untouched may or may not kill you....
Anything originally wired in the 30's and rewired even 20 years later might give you surprises. Mine, for example is estimated as 1925-1935 ,and last rewire date on fusebox quoted 1955. I ran wiring for a cordless from main BT socket to beside my chair for phone and for an extension lead, from nearest mains socket , and opening the floor beside the lounge door, I found two 2.5 T & E grey cables which traced back to door frame, and ended up in one of the double 13A sockets. I'd had problems with the screws in the door hinges pulling out and previously to this I'd contemplated using longer/ heavier screws.I'm glad I didn't.
This was about 15 years ago ,when my uncle was alive. He'd been a sparky since about the early thirties and I asked him when this practice was outlawed. From memory, he couldn't remember ,but put it at before the rewire date.
Many places didn't even have electricity in the 30s. This area got mains AC in the 1960s...

dhutch

14,198 posts

196 months

Saturday 14th July 2018
quotequote all
Our new house was wired around 50years ago, in the window of opportunity between PVC being available and those that be deciding it was worth earthing the lighting circuits. Consumer unit replaced around 30 years ago, including placing all the 2x2.5 ring mains anf the garage spur on 40A breakers.

When my parents aquired my grandparents house and set about letting it out it transpired although what you could see was pvc all the core of the wiring was vir and crumbled when you touched it.
The first property they bought together and rewired (well before part p) included paper insulated wires that could apprently be seen sparking in the ceiling void when you walked over the floor boards above. Lovely!

Daniel

hairyben

8,516 posts

182 months

Saturday 14th July 2018
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Count it as lucky it was brought to your attention before fitting the new kitchen, fix it and get on with life.

If it was done in the last 10 years then it should have been signed off under part P, but as part P is primarily concerned with being a vehicle to flog the decent tradesmen and waste their time and money its not all that relevant .

I always say, and its not just me being a self interested sparky, a full electrical report on a house by a friendly electrician can reveal a lot. I know I've stopped one, probably more house sales going ahead by informing the purchaser that while the wiring was rough but mendable, the whole place (which looked superficially all nice) was probably a moneypit of bodges to be fixed. The survey won't tell you that, and the average punter generally can't instinctively see where corners have been cut the same way a tradesman with an eye for detail can.

dhutch

14,198 posts

196 months

Saturday 14th July 2018
quotequote all
All depends what you want and ask for doesn't it. My last house I paid £20 to see the mortgage valuation, but got a gas and electric survey because what I saw looked rough. Turned out in the whole it was basic but sound, original 1980's council semi wiring, and the seller paid for his surface bodges and the boilers diy gas install to be out right, happy days. You could see it wasnt going anywhere and was a interim house.

This house was four times the price and a joint purchase with my partner, with luck it will be our family home for 40 years. Larger house and Edwardian, less open seller. Paid for a homebuyers which showed bits we didn't see during the veiwings. Paid for an elec survey as we just thought it might be vir, as a bargaining chip. Didn't both with gas as it's likely coming out anyway. Already getting quotes for a full rewire.

But yes. If the op had got an elec survey he might have some comeback on the spark, but more likely, would have known about it pre-sale. However, and I'll say it again, against the cost of a kitchen a one room re-wire is buttons and tbh a cost I would expect as part of the kitchen refit even if it wasn't dodge.

Daniel

mickyc79

Original Poster:

582 posts

107 months

Saturday 14th July 2018
quotequote all
Thanks for the replies. Fair amount of bawbags on here think it's perfectly acceptable to sell dangerous houses to families with kids to live in.

It's was our first purchase so unfortunately, like some on here, wasn't an expert in buying houses, so wasn't versed in all of the process and had maybe a niave thought that people were honest and wouldn't sell death traps on the open market.

For the record, we weren't offered an electrical survey so didn't know this was a thing.

I'm sure if someone sold you a car and had deliberately hid some very dangerous defects that could kill you and your family you'd all be very happy about it.


I have arranged for an electrician to come out and fix it all as part of my kitchen rebuild, and I'm paying for it myself. I was just curious as to where homebuyers stand in these types of circumstances. I now consider myself educated.

MDMA .

8,848 posts

100 months

Saturday 14th July 2018
quotequote all
mickyc79 said:
I'm sure if someone sold you a car and had deliberately hid some very dangerous defects that could kill you and your family you'd all be very happy about it.
And if you had been driving around in this dangerous car for 4 years and not had any problems, how dangerous do you think it is?

Just get it fixed if you think it's that bad.

hairyben

8,516 posts

182 months

Saturday 14th July 2018
quotequote all
It's a common story so don't beat yourself up. I fix so much st its downright depressing.

It was mooted in the original part P that an electrical survey should be a mandatory part of the selling a house pack, but then they realised that for all the millions the electrical trade and in turn its customers are taxed by this nonsense, they might get something meaningfull in return so dropped it. Folklore has it the estate agents were dead set and campained against it too as they felt it'd be disruptive to their gravy train. But hey you get to pay some prick to look at the windows and light bulbs and tell your purchaser something obvious about how energy efficent it might be so that's good.

mickyc79

Original Poster:

582 posts

107 months

Saturday 14th July 2018
quotequote all
Just for giggles...a couple of the worst examples.

This extension is built into the wall and was powering integrated fridge and freezer... No idea where it goes to and cannot find out how to isolate it... Even the extension looks shocked!


This is how my cooker is wired in and left...